Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > Invert Sugar and Candy Sugar
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2008, 02:09 PM   #21
brewt00l
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Doylestown, PA
Posts: 3,739
Liked 10 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodorange
Here's my question: when a recipe calls for 5% white sugar, does it make a difference whether cane/beet sugar (sucrose) or corn sugar (dextrose/glucose) is used? Does cane sugar have any unique, desirable property at this low proportion? Cost is not a factor, I've got plenty of both...


thanks!
If you are talking refined white table sugar, either beet or cane will ferment out completely without leaving any real flavor outside of their influence on body/abv since they refined to a point where they don't have any impurities (which do not ferment and create a "flavor")...at that small a percentage, I would use any one of the three as basically interchangeable. YMMV.
brewt00l is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2008, 02:31 PM   #22
zoebisch01
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
zoebisch01's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central PA
Posts: 5,198
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Got Trub?
Brewers yeast has invertase - the enzyme needed to break sucrose down into its component (and fermentable) sugars. There is nothing to be gained by making or buying invert sugar.

Any of the darker sugars will add varying amounts of unfermentable sugars and flavour which may or may not be desirable in your beer.

The dreaded cidery flavour imparted by sugar only occurs if it makes up too large a portion of your fermentables. If it is less then 15-20% there shouldn't be any off flavour - it will however result in a noticeably drier beer...

GT
While I agree with the latter twoparagraphs, the first statement although true is not the point of why traditionally people use invert over non-invert. There seems to be a split perception on this in how the yeast spending time to break the bonds into glucose and fructose vs. doing this chemically beforehand and the effect of this on flavor and possibly other aspects (mainly head). I for one have never compared the two exactly, but I have successfully used both. I personally feel that they do indeed produce different results, although this is my own perception.
__________________
Event Horizon ~ A tribute to the miracle of fermentation.

Brew what you like. Do this, and you will find your inner brewer.
zoebisch01 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 05:06 AM   #23
fc36
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 350
Liked 20 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 27

Default

I read this article a long while back, but I'm unwilling to reread and check if someone asked the very obvious question of where someone could acquire pure USP citric acid or if plain old lemon juice in the bottle would suffice? Sorry to be so lazy guys, but input is appreciated, especially for those of us rookies on the forums here.
fc36 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 12:15 PM   #24
HairyDogBrewing
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Posts: 580
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

I got citric acid from my homebrew store.
You can substitute lemon juice.
HairyDogBrewing is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 12:32 PM   #25
Bru
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 841
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

I can understand the advantage of using plain sucrose vs clear candi sugar is debatable but one can only get that burned sugar taste from amber/dark candi sugar.
My understanding of the chemical reaction of making candi sugar is that acid is required - not nescesarily citric acid. Can someone confirm ?
Bru is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 03:23 PM   #26
santosvega
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 28
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebisch01 View Post
While I agree with the latter twoparagraphs, the first statement although true is not the point of why traditionally people use invert over non-invert. There seems to be a split perception on this in how the yeast spending time to break the bonds into glucose and fructose vs. doing this chemically beforehand and the effect of this on flavor and possibly other aspects (mainly head). I for one have never compared the two exactly, but I have successfully used both. I personally feel that they do indeed produce different results, although this is my own perception.
I've never bothered to investigate or confirm it, but Graham Wheeler, one of the godfathers of homebrewing in the UK, has always insisted that using refined cane sugar as opposed to invert sugar leads to more pronounced and unpleasant hangovers. For example, he claims that Old Speckled Hen, which uses a good percentage of refined cane sugar in the recipe, gives him worse and longer-lasting hangovers than similar bitters made with invert sugars.
santosvega is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2010, 03:55 PM   #27
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,363
Liked 459 Times on 344 Posts
Likes Given: 575

Default

The pH of wort boiling in the kettle is low enough that it inverts sugar when you add it to the kettle.
__________________
Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014
Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 07:38 AM   #28
Bru
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Posts: 841
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Interesting. Problem is if you prefer to add sugar after a week of fermentation.
Bru is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 03:35 PM   #29
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,363
Liked 459 Times on 344 Posts
Likes Given: 575

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bru View Post
Interesting. Problem is if you prefer to add sugar after a week of fermentation.
I seldom (maybe twice in 377 brews) do that. I usually add sugar for Belgian styles and prefer to add it to the kettle as the Belgians do. And even if you add it to the fermenter, there's no issue with using sugar that isn't inverted.
__________________
Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014
Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 04:28 PM   #30
remilard
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 3,655
Liked 41 Times on 40 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
I seldom (maybe twice in 377 brews) do that. I usually add sugar for Belgian styles and prefer to add it to the kettle as the Belgians do. And even if you add it to the fermenter, there's no issue with using sugar that isn't inverted.
Sorta. Inverted sugar is generally not flavor neutral like table sugar so you might want to flavor. IMO, clear candi syrup, cane sugar, invert sugar #1, and Lyle's Golden Syrup would all produce a different product (in a suitably subtle beer like a triple or a bitter, if I were adding a clear/white sugar to a strong dark I doubt it makes a difference).

That said people frequently claim to want no flavor contribution from the sugar, just the attenuation, so in that case I agree 100%. Cheapest white sugar you can buy in the kettle.
remilard is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clear candy sugar vs table sugar (sucrose) for Belgian miatawnt2b Recipes/Ingredients 3 10-29-2008 01:45 PM
Belgian candy sugar instead of corn sugar for priming? Phan71 Recipes/Ingredients 3 08-04-2008 04:17 PM
Invert sugar. Orfy Recipes/Ingredients 1 09-25-2007 09:15 PM
Invert Sugar ???? finchlake Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 05-22-2007 02:19 AM
Invert Sugar. Orfy Recipes/Ingredients 3 02-08-2007 09:05 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS