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Old 03-29-2006, 02:57 PM   #1
Baron von BeeGee
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Default Weihenstephan...back to the drawing board!

I've been enjoying my Weihenstephan clone, but felt it was too bitter. I thought the color was pretty good. Shouldn't have done a side-by-side comparison!:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...v/DSC00082.jpg

Mine is on the right. The fact that mine is in a pint glass and the W is in a wheat glass affects the color, but even taking that into account my beer doesn't have the beautiful golden straw color that the W does. Perhaps I'll try a different brand of malt next time.

And as I mentioned, it's too bitter. Looking back in Promash my recipe calculated almost 17 IBU (went by the book in Beer Captured). I'm cutting it back to 12 my next time around.


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Old 03-29-2006, 03:05 PM   #2
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you know what I love about side-by-side comparisons?

YOU HAVE TO DRINK TWO GREAT BEERS!

I'm doing a side-by-side of my porter and SSTaddy tonight, just to see what differences there are. I know mine is a lot darker, but I'm looking to compare taste.

-walker


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Old 03-29-2006, 03:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron von BeeGee
I've been enjoying my Weihenstephan clone, but felt it was too bitter. I thought the color was pretty good. Shouldn't have done a side-by-side comparison!:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...v/DSC00082.jpg

Mine is on the right. The fact that mine is in a pint glass and the W is in a wheat glass affects the color, but even taking that into account my beer doesn't have the beautiful golden straw color that the W does. Perhaps I'll try a different brand of malt next time.
<------- Has never brewed a Hefe Weisse, but plans to do this next and hopefully has read enough to make the process complicated

What malt are you using?
If you bought it at your LHBS, you will have used Weyermann. I think that should be the right malt to use. The darkening could come from O2 intake during the mash and/or boil. But I don't think that you are spashing in either stage. I also read that a lower PH will result in fewer Mailiard reactions, thus a lighter color. Maybe you should at some Acid malt (1/4 lb should be ok).

Quote:
And as I mentioned, it's too bitter. Looking back in Promash my recipe calculated almost 17 IBU (went by the book in Beer Captured). I'm cutting it back to 12 my next time around.
yep, cut it back. Another thing that you may want to try, is the removal of the bown gunk on top of the Kraeusen. This technique is controversial among home brewers, but many believe that it removes bitter hop resins and smoothens out the bitterness. I believe that this is done in most (if not all) Weissbier breweries in Germany.
It also means fermenting in a bucket.

Any problems with the aroma and or taste (besides the bitterness).

Oh, I can't wait until I can try myself on a Hefe.

Kai
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Old 03-29-2006, 03:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial Walker
you know what I love about side-by-side comparisons?

YOU HAVE TO DRINK TWO GREAT BEERS!
Yeah, that's pretty cool...polished off the Weihenstephan and then snagged mine from the fridge. Still had a nice head!
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Old 03-29-2006, 03:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser
<------- Has never brewed a Hefe Weisse, but plans to do this next and hopefully has read enough to make the process complicated

What malt are you using?
If you bought it at your LHBS, you will have used Weyermann. I think that should be the right malt to use. The darkening could come from O2 intake during the mash and/or boil. But I don't think that you are spashing in either stage. I also read that a lower PH will result in fewer Mailiard reactions, thus a lighter color. Maybe you should at some Acid malt (1/4 lb should be ok).
Yep, this recipe came from AB. It was wheat and pilsener. I specifically didn't stir after doughing in as I've read this can 'gum up' wheat. The pH could be an excellent point, however. I've tested on barley mashes and I'm in range, but I haven't tested recently or with a wheat mash. I also have some lactic acid I can use in the mash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser
yep, cut it back. Another thing that you may want to try, is the removal of the bown gunk on top of the Kraeusen. This technique is controversial among home brewers, but many believe that it removes bitter hop resins and smoothens out the bitterness. I believe that this is done in most (if not all) Weissbier breweries in Germany.
It also means fermenting in a bucket.
Fermenting in a bucket is my modus operandi I've many times thought about executing this controversial procedure...perhaps the time has arrived.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser
Any problems with the aroma and or taste (besides the bitterness).
I definitely do not have the same phenolic character as the Weihenstephan, but I don't know if this is due to my fermentation temperature or the hop bitterness obscuring it. It did smell quite phenolic while fermenting with a temperature of 66-68F. I did use the Weihenstephan yeast (3068). I hope I get better phenols in my Aventinus (which also smells good fermenting).

Oh well, some things to try next time!
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Old 03-29-2006, 04:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron von BeeGee
I definitely do not have the same phenolic character as the Weihenstephan, but I don't know if this is due to my fermentation temperature or the hop bitterness obscuring it. It did smell quite phenolic while fermenting with a temperature of 66-68F. I did use the Weihenstephan yeast (3068). I hope I get better phenols in my Aventinus (which also smells good fermenting).
Does phenolic mean "clove-aroma" or spicy? Or is this the "banana aroma"?

Just recently (last night) I came upon the affects of ferulic acid and how it is used by the yeast to produce 4-vinyl-gujacol which is said to cause the "clove aroma". Ferulic acid is already produced in your mash, but its level can be increased by a ferulic acid rest at ~44*C. Here we go, yet another rest . Time to get a heated mash tun . But my knowledge in this area is very shallow since I have not read enough yet nor have I tried this yet. But unfortunately there is little information about this in the english brwering literature (google: ferulic acid beer mash) and I have to take most of the information from german brewing pages, which are harder to share with this forum .

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Old 03-29-2006, 04:37 PM   #7
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Warner's book has a reasonable amount of information on ferulic acid and how it's a marker for 4-vinyl-guaiacol. Of course, I read it after this beer was bottled. I'm not sure if I'll incorporate such a rest, but my protein rest was ~128F which I am going to lower next time...I'm not sure if that may help free ferulic acid.

My beer lacks the spicy/clovey phenols. I've had very banana-y hefes, and I wasn't getting that from either of the beers last night. Mine tasted fine by itself (with the exception of the lingering bitterness), but when compared side-by-side it was very instructional and clear that I am low on phenols.

Two other thoughts...I aerated this batch as usual for a 1054 wort and have since read that the production of phenols may be increased by decreasing oxygenation of the wort. I oxygenated my 1074 Aventinus wort half as much as was suggested to see if it would boost phenol production.

I also let this beer sit in the secondary for 5 weeks due to travel and sickness. Next time I will be more rigorous in getting it bottled sooner.
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Old 03-29-2006, 04:43 PM   #8
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which german pages? from books? or internet? to my dismay, i have to make do with german literature at this time, unless i want to buy every book on the internet and have it shipped to germany. i find it interesting the different ideas that american homebrewers have in comparison to german, and vice versa. this is about the best site i've seen on the english side of the coin. can you reccomend a good german equivalent? i know of one (the name of which i cant remember right now) but it has only one tenth of the action as what goes on here.
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Old 03-29-2006, 04:46 PM   #9
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What's so controversial about scooping off the gunk? I've often thought about doing that. Infection?
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Old 03-29-2006, 04:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterio
What's so controversial about scooping off the gunk? I've often thought about doing that. Infection?
Maybe controversial is too strong a word, but many people question the efficacy of it. Some people, such as the Pap, claim scooping it off will remove bitter resins and hangover inducing compounds from your finished brew. Other people say it is a risk of infection and doesn't affect the flavor if you leave it and let it settle, especially if you rack to secondary.


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