Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > General Techniques > secondary carboy
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-31-2008, 02:26 PM   #1
marshman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SE PA
Posts: 141
Default secondary carboy

I have no idea how to begin searching for an answer to this one, so sorry if I'm clogging the lines...

I sprung for some hefe yeast a few weks ago. As the first, standard batch was winding up it's stay in primary, I decided to brew a dunkel and drop it on the yeastcake (lees?) and make 2 batches from the same yeast. Of course, then I had the grand idea to do a 3rd batch, maybe cherry, but I digress.

As I keep pouring more and more beer into the same primary without cleaning, is there any reason I couldn't do the same with the secondary? I have the capacity to brew today, could start this afternoon, so it wouldn't pose much of a problem to get fresh wort into the primary, but I was wondering if it'd be difficult or problematic to simply move the beer from primary right into the secondary I'd just emptied of beer brewed with the same yeast.

Any thoughts?


__________________
42
marshman is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 02:45 PM   #2
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UP of Michigan
Posts: 65,967
Liked 6216 Times on 4428 Posts
Likes Given: 1666

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marshman View Post
I have no idea how to begin searching for an answer to this one, so sorry if I'm clogging the lines...

I sprung for some hefe yeast a few weks ago. As the first, standard batch was winding up it's stay in primary, I decided to brew a dunkel and drop it on the yeastcake (lees?) and make 2 batches from the same yeast. Of course, then I had the grand idea to do a 3rd batch, maybe cherry, but I digress.

As I keep pouring more and more beer into the same primary without cleaning, is there any reason I couldn't do the same with the secondary? I have the capacity to brew today, could start this afternoon, so it wouldn't pose much of a problem to get fresh wort into the primary, but I was wondering if it'd be difficult or problematic to simply move the beer from primary right into the secondary I'd just emptied of beer brewed with the same yeast.

Any thoughts?
Pitching on the yeast cake is fine, for about two repeats. My understanding is that after two times, the yeasts can be mutated and not healthy enough to use more than a total of three times. That comes from reading, not from any sort of scientific understanding. Also, I think you'd run into overpitching if you used the entire yeast cake more than twice. I'd recommend yeast washing, and then you could use your yeast indefinitely. (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=41768) That process removes trub and hops, etc, giving you cleaner yeast.

I don't recommend pitching on yeast in the secondary- even though that yeast seems to be "cleaner", that is the most stressed least flocculant yeast, and is probably not a good bet for a brand new fermentation. The key to good flavor in your ales is to use healthy yeast. Stressed yeast leads to off-flavors and poor fermentations like stuck fermentations.


__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006

Follow me on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lorena.t.evans
But I'm pretty boring so don't expect much!
https://www.facebook.com/lorena.t.evans
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 03:04 PM   #3
marshman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SE PA
Posts: 141
Default

I'd also read about the "three and out" school regarding re-pitching, and I wasn't planning to go any further than this.

I wasn't planning on pitching a fresh brew into a 'dirty' secondary. I was wondering if moving a dunkel into a secondary from which I'd just bottled a hefe, both using the same yeast, without sanitizing the carboy was asking for trouble. Unless someone says "Go ahead" in the next half hour, I'll probably play it safe and clean it, but I was just wondering if I could save myself some time/trouble.

When I pitched the first batch, there was a bit of stuff stuck in the bottom of the 'test tube' the yeast had come in, so I stuck a bit of cool wort in the tube and set it aside. The next morning, I cracked the seal, let off some pressure, and put it in the fridge, where I blew off pressure every day until it settled. I'm guessing I got a fresh yeast culture in there now, and I'll try it next time I kick a yeast.

Thanks YooperBrew--you're the man!
__________________
42
marshman is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 03:27 PM   #4
Bopper
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,002
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 129

Default

If I were you, I'd spend the ten or fifteen minutes it takes to clean and sanitize the carboy. I just don't think it's worth the time savings to risk potential contamination of a batch (although you would probably be fine).
Bopper is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 03:44 PM   #5
marshman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SE PA
Posts: 141
Default

OK, I'm moving the brew to the bottling bucket, and of course, I hadda swipe a little taste.

Seriously considering a much larger taste, as it is magnificent.

Will clean out the carboy, but I'd still like to know if the circumstances are ok in general. I'm a big fan of English ales, pretty hoppy, and frequently brew consecutives batches, so if this is a reasonable process, I'd love to know about it.
__________________
42
marshman is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 03:52 PM   #6
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UP of Michigan
Posts: 65,967
Liked 6216 Times on 4428 Posts
Likes Given: 1666

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marshman View Post
Thanks YooperBrew--you're the man!
I took that as such a compliment, I put it in my signature- hope that's ok?

I'm not 100% sure exactly what you're asking- but I think you're saying you would just put your beer into a just emptied secondary? If that's what you're asking, I sure wouldn't do that. For one thing, the purpose of the secondary is for clearing. In fact, it shouldn't even be referred to as a "secondary"- that term is incorrect. It should be called a "bright tank" or "clearing tank". So, you'd be taking a beer that you're planning on having clearing and conditioning on, and sticking it on some old yeast and trub from an older batch. Additionally, you be adding to the risk of infection by using an unsanitized container. I realize that when you pitch on the yeast cake in primary, it's a similar thing, but the huge amount of yeast would help overcome any foothold a stray wild yeast spore or bacteria might start. In the clearing tank, no fermentation is taking place. It would be like bottling a fresh beer in a dirty bottle, in my mind.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006

Follow me on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lorena.t.evans
But I'm pretty boring so don't expect much!
https://www.facebook.com/lorena.t.evans
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 03:55 PM   #7
AnOldUR
fer-men-TAY-shuhn
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
AnOldUR's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6,816
Liked 764 Times on 558 Posts
Likes Given: 621

Default

Though I just read somewhere that five was the magic number and that the yeast was at its best at three.

Have to do some searching.
__________________
Sent from my POS computer because I refuse to own a smartphone!
AnOldUR is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 04:05 PM   #8
AnOldUR
fer-men-TAY-shuhn
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
AnOldUR's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 6,816
Liked 764 Times on 558 Posts
Likes Given: 621

Default

Here it is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by oberon567 View Post
Hypothetically, though, if you only pitch on half of a yeast cake, and you plan the order of your brews ahead of time, then one vial of yeast can last a LONG time, as it grows exponentially with every brew. There has to be a point where the yeast will just stop replicating and being happy, no doubt, but if you're smart you can really stretch it out.

Listening to Jamil's podcast, he says that he usually will pitch 5 times on a slurry, and he finds that pitch #3 is always the best, that is, for some reason, where and when the yeast are the happiest. The other are all Exhibition Grade, no degradation or off flavors, but #3 is firing on all cylinders.
__________________
Sent from my POS computer because I refuse to own a smartphone!
AnOldUR is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 04:18 PM   #9
oberon567
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 263
Liked 6 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I would have to relisten to the podcast to be entirely certain, and I dont remember which one it was, but I dont think he was pitching directly on the cake itself, he was harvesting the yeast, I dont think washing it but harvesting it and then splitting it... Again, I dont remember exactly, but I am pretty sure he was cleaning his carboys and everything inbetween batches, since he is pretty anal-retentive about sanitation, which would imply that he was saving the yeast and then re-using it...
oberon567 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2008, 04:46 PM   #10
marshman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SE PA
Posts: 141
Default

Please--help yourself, Yooperbrew. And, given the newest information, you're still the man.

I did once brew consecutive batches and simply pour out a (sanitized) coffee cup full of the sludge/lees/yeast cake which I immediately dumped into the next batch into a cleaned carboy. Worked like a charm.

Boy, what's a guy to do when the last fill bottle only makes it halfway??? Hmmmm...


__________________
42
marshman is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
secondary with only one carboy Yosemite Bing General Techniques 15 07-12-2008 05:58 PM
Secondary Carboy Fermentation Vs. Secondary Bottling Fermintation. MntFresh General Techniques 9 05-17-2007 06:58 PM
Is a 6.5 gal carboy to big for a secondary? Pizza Man Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 1 01-20-2007 03:34 PM
Getting a secondary carboy McCall St. Brewer Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 11-14-2005 03:06 PM
Secondary - but not a carboy OBX General Techniques 3 04-14-2005 06:11 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS