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Old 03-14-2006, 04:17 PM   #11
cweston
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron von BeeGee
Incidentally, the 3333 would have been my first choice for for my Aventinus...wish you were closer! 3068 is what I've got...
Aventinus is one of the great beers of the world, IMHO. I think I'm going to take a shot at that later this year. Have you done your Aventinus clone before?
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Old 03-14-2006, 04:24 PM   #12
Walker
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Jeff and I had discussed doing this a few weeks ago. I guess we forgot to mention it to you guys.

I'm keen to swap yeast, but I don't collect from trub, I just save part of my starters in the fridge under distilled water, and use them to make later starters. If that's acceptable, I'd like to be part of the GRABASS yeast swapping committee.

I've currently got:

1084 (Irish Ale, several months old and I don't know if I'll re-use it or not since I don't have a stout planned in the near future and it's old right now.)
1056 (American Ale, several months old.. wanted to use if for the last batch of IPA, but on brew day I realized I forgot to make a starter and I used dry 1056 instead)
1028 (London Ale used for my porter 3 weeks ago, planning to make a nut brown ale soon)


I had 1728 (scottish ale) in there for a while, but it got infected and turned into a rancid smelling gusher.

In general, since I am trying to perfect a few recipes, I can pretty much tell you that the below are pretty much the only strains of yeast I will be using:

1084 (only used for my stout)
1056 (for my IPA and any American-type experiments)
1028 (for my porter, brown ale and any UK-type experiments)
1728 (only used for for my 80/-)

I might use some 1272 (american II) or a randomly selected British/London ale yeast if I feel whimsical, but the four listed above are my staple yeasts strains, and I get a lot more use of 1056 and 1028 than the others.

-walker
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Old 03-14-2006, 04:39 PM   #13
Baron von BeeGee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cweston
Aventinus is one of the great beers of the world, IMHO. I think I'm going to take a shot at that later this year. Have you done your Aventinus clone before?
No, I've never done it. Never done a dunkel, even. For some reason I've been on a wheat beer kick this winter...I enjoyed them before, but wasn't as in to them as I am at the moment. I hope the clone comes out well, but from what I understand it needs to age a bit longer than most wheats (8% abv, I suppose), so I need to get it percolating soon. I've got all of the ingredients in hand.

On DRB's advice I just ordered the 'German Wheat Beers' book, but I don't know if it will arrive before I brew this thing.

 
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron von BeeGee
On DRB's advice I just ordered the 'German Wheat Beers' book, but I don't know if it will arrive before I brew this thing.
I'm reading this right now. And it really is a well written book.

I'm going to make a Wheatbock as my Holiday seasonal this year and might be calling it Adventius. This means brewing it in late August or early September. I'm not sure how long it should age, since you want to have the esters and aromas that may go away after prolonged ging.

I guess you will be able to tell me when it actually peaks

Kai

 
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:34 PM   #15
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I guess the best approach is to post in this thread about a week before brewing to check if anyone has a suitable yeast.

Kai

 
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser
I'm reading this right now. And it really is a well written book.
[snip]
I guess you will be able to tell me when it actually peaks

Kai
It does include a section on Weizenbocks, doesn't it? Anything I should know? Guess I'll find out. I'm thinking about trying to squeeze it in this weekend if everything permits...need to take advantage of the "cold snap" for fermentation. And I'm using the term 'aging' relatively...longer than a hefe, but not for months. Actually, I aged my hefe a couple months and I think the phenols have definitely suffered.

 
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron von BeeGee
It does include a section on Weizenbocks, doesn't it? Anything I should know? Guess I'll find out. I'm thinking about trying to squeeze it in this weekend if everything permits...need to take advantage of the "cold snap" for fermentation. And I'm using the term 'aging' relatively...longer than a hefe, but not for months. Actually, I aged my hefe a couple months and I think the phenols have definitely suffered.
I don't think it features Weizenbocks. But it has some information on them between the lines.

I'd definately recommend 2 decoctions. One from the protein rest to the saccrification temp and one from the sacc temp to mash-out. The first decoction should be pulled after 5 min, thick and fully converted at 72-74C (?F). This will take 15-20 min. Then you should boil it for at least 30min. Make sure you account for the evaporation loss. This means pull more than ProMash tells you. The second decoction can be pulled 20min before the end of the sacc rest. It should be thin. I'd say a conversion temp of 67 or 68C will give you the body and sweetness you want in this beer.

I took this info from the Weissbier book and the Doppelbock that I brewed some time ago. And this is how I would brew a Weizenbock if I were to brew one now.

I assume you have a clone recipe that tells you mash temp and time for the sacc rest.

Kai


 
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser
I don't think it features Weizenbocks. But it has some information on them between the lines.
...
I'd definately recommend 2 decoctions.
...
I assume you have a clone recipe that tells you mash temp and time for the sacc rest.

Kai
You're bumming me out! I was planning on doing a protein rest followed by a boiling water infusion up to sacch. and then running off. I don't usually go up to mash out since I batch sparge and don't need to worry about denaturing the enzymes (happens pretty quickly with the boil).

I'll look into doing a protein rest followed by a decoction to get up to sacch.

I have a recipe I found on the web, but don't have any experience with or comments on, but it hits all the Aventinus specs on the money and looks reasonable, so I'm going to try it. It has the sacch temp. I also found a BYO article on the web that gave protein rest and sacch temps as if they had spoken with the brewery.

Anyways, I'm going to run through it once and see what I get...if it's good I'll try and perfect it. Otherwise, Whole Foods sells Aventinus.

 
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:25 PM   #19
Kaiser
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron von BeeGee
You're bumming me out! I was planning on doing a protein rest followed by a boiling water infusion up to sacch. and then running off. I don't usually go up to mash out since I batch sparge and don't need to worry about denaturing the enzymes (happens pretty quickly with the boil).

I'll look into doing a protein rest followed by a decoction to get up to sacch.

I have a recipe I found on the web, but don't have any experience with or comments on, but it hits all the Aventinus specs on the money and looks reasonable, so I'm going to try it. It has the sacch temp. I also found a BYO article on the web that gave protein rest and sacch temps as if they had spoken with the brewery.

Anyways, I'm going to run through it once and see what I get...if it's good I'll try and perfect it. Otherwise, Whole Foods sells Aventinus.
Look into the 1st decoction. And you may just replace the 2nd decoction with a hot-water infusion. The idea of the mash-out is not to denature the proteins, but primarily fully stop the beta-amylase. If they were left to work during the lautering, they may eat up some of the body that you want to have in the beer. It also reduces the viscosity of the mash -> easier lautering.

I'm doing batch sparging as well, and always added a mash-out.

Kai

I'll check at home if any of my clone brew books has an Aventius clone as well. Just for comparison.
Did BYO mention anything about decoction? I'd be surprised if Schneider is not using a decoction mash schedule for this beer.


 
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:39 PM   #20
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Yeah, I meant denature the enzymes (victim of trying to work and goof off at the same time). On my current system I go from runoff to boiling in <20-25m, so I only mashout when it's convenient to add an infusion to equalize my batch volumes. But I'll look into it.

I can't recall if the BYO article mentioned a decoction or not. I'll have to dig around for it. I believe it was actually a generic article on Weizenbocks, and they happend to mention as an example the temps that Schneider mashes at.

 
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