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Old 06-29-2008, 02:49 PM   #1
bandt9299
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I was @ a beer fest yesterday talking with the head brewer of a local microbrewery and commented on the maltiness of his beer how I liked it and never seem to get it even if I mash @ a higher temp EG 156-158 and he told me to mash lower like 150-152 for more body and malt flavor. Isn't this the exact opposite of everything we've been taught?

 
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:01 PM   #2
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That seems a little contrary. You should ask him to elaborate.
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Old 06-29-2008, 03:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandt9299 View Post
I was @ a beer fest yesterday talking with the head brewer of a local microbrewery and commented on the maltiness of his beer how I liked it and never seem to get it even if I mash @ a higher temp EG 156-158 and he told me to mash lower like 150-152 for more body and malt flavor. Isn't this the exact opposite of everything we've been taught?
Yes. Yes it is. Alpha-amylase is activated more so at 150-152 and always breaks up starches into maltose and a bit of maltotriose. Beta-amylase is activated more so at 156-158 and breaks up starches into maltose and maltotriose as well as maltodextrines which is responsible for giving body.

It may be that he has A-amylase rest and then (or maybe before) a B-amylase rest, essentially transforming almost all of the sugars into maltose, maltotriose and maltodextrine with very little residual starches. This seems pretty complicated.
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandt9299 View Post
I was @ a beer fest yesterday talking with the head brewer of a local microbrewery and commented on the maltiness of his beer how I liked it and never seem to get it even if I mash @ a higher temp EG 156-158 and he told me to mash lower like 150-152 for more body and malt flavor. Isn't this the exact opposite of everything we've been taught?
Maltiness and body are two different things. I correlate body primarily with FG, but in addition to higher mash temp., that is a result of malts (e.g., crystal malts, unmalted barley) and yeast strain (attenuation). You could have a beer with an FG of 1.008 and plenty of maltiness and a beer with an FG of 1.020 with little maltiness. I think maltiness is more due to the types of malts used (e.g., pilsner, munich) and/or decoction mashing... and to a lesser extent, the yeast strain (cleaner yeasts may allow more maltiness to come through) and hop schedule. If you do a single infusion mash at 156-158, you'll definitely get more body than 150-152. But I don't see how those temperature differences alone have much of an effect on maltiness.

 
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfocus View Post
Beta-amylase is activated more so at 156-158
It was my understanding that Beta-amylase denatured around 152.

 
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubbies View Post
It was my understanding that Beta-amylase denatured around 152.
i don't think so...i believe its barely becoming active at 152. remember if you 'denature' something you're breaking it down...it can't 'renature' once its denatured.
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Old 07-01-2008, 02:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menschmaschine View Post
Maltiness and body are two different things. I correlate body primarily with FG, but in addition to higher mash temp., that is a result of malts (e.g., crystal malts, unmalted barley) and yeast strain (attenuation). You could have a beer with an FG of 1.008 and plenty of maltiness and a beer with an FG of 1.020 with little maltiness. I think maltiness is more due to the types of malts used (e.g., pilsner, munich) and/or decoction mashing... and to a lesser extent, the yeast strain (cleaner yeasts may allow more maltiness to come through) and hop schedule. If you do a single infusion mash at 156-158, you'll definitely get more body than 150-152. But I don't see how those temperature differences alone have much of an effect on maltiness.
Good post.

Maltiness is a flavor perception. Read Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil, he gives a good explanation of this (essentially what menschmachine wrote).

Try adding some different malts for flavor (ie Munich, Biscuit, etc), that will help.

 
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Old 07-01-2008, 02:12 PM   #8
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I think he was just testing your melon.

 
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Old 07-01-2008, 02:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GilaMinumBeer View Post
I think he was just testing your melon.
Or he was a jagoff who just uses someone else's recipes and doesn't know sh*t about the science of brewing, and he was merely talking straight out of his ass. If I had to guess, I'd say that was the case.
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Old 07-01-2008, 02:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malkore View Post
i don't think so...i believe its barely becoming active at 152. remember if you 'denature' something you're breaking it down...it can't 'renature' once its denatured.
According to the chart below (from howtobrew.com) beta-amylase would be thoroughly denatured by 158. And Palmer lists the "optimum range" as 131-150 degrees.

Also from howtobrew:

Quote:
The temperature most often quoted for mashing is about 153°F. This is a compromise between the two temperatures that the two enzymes favor. Alpha works best at 154-162°F, while beta is denatured (the molecule falls apart) at that temperature, working best between 131-150°F.


 
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