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Old 06-18-2008, 03:20 PM   #1
Dec 2006
Posts: 286

Remember my post about hops at a good price? hehe

Well my shipment came in yesterday. I only got 5oz of each type and my Yakima Mags was replaced with Cascade which is not even in the same ball park because I was going to use the Mags for bittering only.

Well looking through my email I never got the one about the 5oz orders and nothing about my Mags getting swapped out.

I walked it off, was a bit PO'd to say the least but knew getting mad will do no good.

I emailed Tim who run http://www.makewinebeer.com and explained everything and both of us went over all the events with a fine tooth comb.
He worked with me and is sending the rest of my hops after reviewing the issue. Some online stores would tell me SO WHAT and push me aside. Been there and done that.

He has been very understanding and pleasant about the whole deal.

I myself look forward to doing business with him in the future and feel that some of you in the community who was bashing him should chill out and give him a try. Crap happens short and simple. I was a bit miffed at 1st YES, but after chillin' out I knew I was only getting mad over some hops and he would refund my money if I asked.

Talked with him for a few, he is looking forward to offering some deals to this community as a show of good faith and building some great friends here.


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Old 06-18-2008, 03:32 PM   #2
Evan!'s Avatar
Aug 2006
Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 11,863
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Good for him for living up to his side of the agreement.

I gotta say, if any online store actually just said "SO WHAT" and pushed me aside for something like that, the first thing I'd do is contact my CC company or paypal and get the charges reversed. Honestly, I've never dealt with any online retailer that would actually just say "so what"...they know that reputation is everything and they don't have much to gain from screwing a customer. Plus, it's just simple ethics.

Like I said, glad that he lived up to his end of the agreement, but at the same time, I think most people would. I'm reminded of the old Chris Rock bit on ni**az vs black people...'ni**as always be braggin about sh*t they SUPPOSED to do...talkin about, "I take CARE of my kids!" That's what you're SUPPOSED to do, you dumb mf'er! "I ain't never been to prison", what you want, a cookie?!'

I'm not coming down on the guy, and I did read his explanation of the whole ordeal too...I just think that what he did for you (making good on the agreement) is or at least SHOULD BE par for the course...and that hopefully this'll be a learning experience for him and will help him fix some of the logistical problems with his business.
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Old 06-18-2008, 09:47 PM   #3
Jun 2008
Posts: 15

Raffi, thanks for the props. I am glad I could provide you with the 5lbs of choice pellets vs. the 5oz minimum. The 5oz of Cascade is on me! I don't think you will find 5lbs of anything anywhere else. Had this not shipped in error you would have been looking at the 5oz minimum for sure in all honesty. In times and cases like this you might be right. Not too many Retail shops out there can come up with 5lbs to accomodate individual retail customers especially due to errors. Not an excuse, its the truth. Thats why the minimums are impossed so we can attempt to please everyone.

I would never give you the "SO WHAT" scenario you've received in the past and it's sad to hear that this experience exists out there. At the worse you would have paid the 5oz mimimum and received the 5oz of Cascade free including a refund for the items that were not shipped. The only other alternative left would be a complete return and refund. Either way it was a WIN/WIN for both sides. Yep, some of us care about our reputation for sure, no doubt. You just happened to luck out my friend. Like Moss Hollow Brewery said; it's just simple Ethics.

I don't know if I would agree that the Chris Rock bit is the best analgy for this. But, I can tell you that I'm not bragging and surely not looking for any cookies. Heck, you did that for me and I thank you for that. I certainly know what I'm supposed to do and I know how to treat people.

Your point came accross clear to me and I see what you were trying to do... Trying to prevent the creation of the mountain vs. the aunt hill and at the same time minimize the bashing... I appeciate that too. It's all about the way you choose to handle and understand a situation and how you deal with people.

Well, I think I am done typing now.

Thanks again and I look forward to hearing from you again in the future!



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Old 06-19-2008, 04:39 PM   #4
conpewter's Avatar
Nov 2007
East Dundee, Illinois
Posts: 5,109
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I did not order from the website while it had the errors in its database, but I am impressed that the owner came here, ponied up his $75 for a vendor membership and tried to make things right when he could. It actually looks like a well designed website, but had database issues.
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:51 PM   #5
Vendor and Brewer
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Aug 2006
Whitehouse Station, NJ
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I admit I knew about your business since I start brewing but hadn't ever given it much though since you're an hour away and slightly pricy. I thought I'd give you some feedback anyway.

One thing I'd suggest is posting more about your full sacks of malt and looking a little closer at your yeast pricing. There are a LOT of brewers in here from NJ and if I have my way, 90% of them are going to be brewing all grain and buying full sacks. What do you carry? (Briesse, Thomas, Weyermann, etc) I don't mind driving down to Hamilton (1 hour) if the availability and pricing is better than Brewer's Apprentice. I paid $55 for Munton's MO a month ago and that's with a 10% discount for WHALESclub members.

Yeast... At $3 for Windsor and $9 for white labs, It makes more sense to go to an out of state mailorder vendor even with the $6-7 shipping.
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Old 06-19-2008, 04:52 PM   #6
ohiobrewtus's Avatar
Nov 2006
Posts: 7,785
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I ended up cancelling my order, but I talked to Tom on the phone and certainly got the impression that he's a good guy running a solid business, he just didn't have time to update his website before a couple hundred hbt'ers got a hold of him.

When deal like that come along and get posted here we're like a large pack of wolves pouncing on a kill and some places just aren't prepared to handle that kind of volume. I'm not saying that Tom couldn't handle it, but he did the right thing in getting his website updated and corrected and working with people as best as he could given the circumstances.

It's good to see honest, eager homebrewshop owners who are willing to work with customers.
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Old 06-19-2008, 07:49 PM   #7
homebrewer_99's Avatar
Feb 2005
Atkinson (near the Quad Cities), IL
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I also canceled my order because he didn't have what I wanted in stock.

Tom and me sent back a couple emails and was glad I didn't beat up on him also.
HB Bill

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Old 06-19-2008, 08:11 PM   #8
Jun 2008
Posts: 15

Hello Everyone, it's nice to be out here. I am meeting alot of nice people. To be honest I have not spent much time out here talking to the community. From what I can see it might be a good idea to keep in touch! The feedback is great and it helps me understand how all of you think. Yeah, I thought it was a good idea to jump in and join the program. I actually got two packages out here. I signed up for the $100 Lifetime Supporter and also the Vendor program at $75. I figure $175 would be a nice contribution to homebrewtalk.com considering their expenses to maintain the site and I am sure I will benefit from it too no doubt. Bobby, I can do the Muntons MO for the same price $55.00 but I do not have any in stock right now. I just sold out. What I do for the local home brewers is send out an email notification notifying them that we will be stocking the store and give them an opportunity to order bulk items so they can save on the shipping costs. Another words, you tell me you want 4 bags and you don't get charged the shipping since I am paying the freight for my order anyway. It's a good thing and my customers appreciate it. To ship you a bag depends on the zipcode you live in. I just quoted someone $47 to AZ to give you an idea. This person's homebrew shop was selling the same stuff for $85 a bag and I quoted him $57 for two bags on his order and even with the shipping costs I was still below the cost of his LHBS. Some locations are rural and are more expensive. I have some customers tell me they pay $126 - $147 to get 1 bag delivered. But, they have no choice because they have no LHBS. If you are interested we are unloading some 55lb Bags of Lager at $40 a bag until Sunday to make room for some more inventory. 1st come first serve. Bobby, I also found an old thread out there where some people were asking for a NJ homebrew shop and I think you were on the thread. Are you from Rutgers area? Anyway, I posted a message out there too and let everyone know I exist and offered the $40 deal on the 55 pounders of Lager there as well. That problem on the website was strickly a human no-no error. The database is fine, there is no problem with it. The only problem was that it was populated with my discounted pricing vs. the retail pricing during a massive update. I don't want anyone to think that there is a problem with the design or functionality of the site. I have been an IT professional for almost 30 years now so I do alot of the work behind the scenes myself. My site is powered by Yahoo Business Merchant solutions and it is very secure. I am in the Process of adding some new stuff out there like the Coniucal Mini Brew Fermenters. If you look at my gallery on homebrewtalk I have some great prices on the entire line of Conical Mini Brew Fermenters. We have every model in stock now. At any rate if anyone needs anything don't hesitate to ask. I am not out here trying to make a killing. I will certainly do my best to help you the best I can. Have a good one guys! Cheers! Tom

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