Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing > Direct Fire Mash vs. HERMS etc. - again
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-14-2008, 02:09 PM   #1
korndog
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
korndog's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: westlake village, ca
Posts: 1,123
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts

Default Direct Fire Mash vs. HERMS etc. - again

As I near completion of my rig, I am giving some final thought to the topic of scorching, etc. I have setup a HERMS option for mashing and cooling operations in addition to the direct MLT burner on the advice of a friend and because I thought it would be cool to have options.

Can someone definitively say that direct-fire mash, where the grain is completely off the bottom has any higher risk of reaction than other method? Isn't the boil kettle or decoction kettle much more problematic than a gentle DFM with recirculation? Is the risk only to the grain or are people afraid of a Maillard reaction to suspended proteins?

Thanks
KD


__________________
"..can the human soul be glimpsed through a microscope? Maybe, but you'd definitely need one of those very good ones with two eyepieces."


Twitter: LarryKonis
korndog is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 06:18 PM   #2
MNBugeater
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MNBugeater's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 979
Liked 8 Times on 6 Posts

Default

Hey korndog---

I can chime in on my experience with DFM. I had some temp control issues with my new stand and had the burner on too long and got too hot in my mash tun.
I was worried that something might have burned in that process.

I expected to see some scorching on the inside bottom of my MT, but when I cleaned it there wasn't anything. It was fine. I'm sure I created flavors I wont be happy with, but that has to do with my temps being screwed up.

Bottom line is that I was direct firing the mash tun much longer that I wanted with a false bottom (Blichmann) and I didn't experience any scorching. I was recirculating the entire time and I truly believe thats what 'saved' me. If I hadn't the wort would been just sitting there burning.

Warren


__________________
On Tap: Blonde Ale, Apfelwein, Cinnamon Apfelwein, Amber Ale, Irish Red
Bottled: Porter, Wheat, Barleywine, Cranberry Apfelwein, Amber Ale
Buy Bugeater Brewery Gear
MNBugeater is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 06:33 PM   #3
korndog
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
korndog's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: westlake village, ca
Posts: 1,123
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBugeater View Post
Hey korndog---

I can chime in on my experience with DFM. I had some temp control issues with my new stand and had the burner on too long and got too hot in my mash tun.
I was worried that something might have burned in that process.

I expected to see some scorching on the inside bottom of my MT, but when I cleaned it there wasn't anything. It was fine. I'm sure I created flavors I wont be happy with, but that has to do with my temps being screwed up.

Bottom line is that I was direct firing the mash tun much longer that I wanted with a false bottom (Blichmann) and I didn't experience any scorching. I was recirculating the entire time and I truly believe thats what 'saved' me. If I hadn't the wort would been just sitting there burning.

Warren
Thanks Warren
It seems that this happens in the normal course of a session in the boil kettle as well, so it's hard to imagine any ill effects.

KD
__________________
"..can the human soul be glimpsed through a microscope? Maybe, but you'd definitely need one of those very good ones with two eyepieces."


Twitter: LarryKonis
korndog is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 06:38 PM   #4
scinerd3000
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Milton, De
Posts: 2,155
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 29

Default

what exactly is a malliard reaction?
__________________
On Hiatus: Brewing at work....
scinerd3000 is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:06 PM   #5
korndog
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
korndog's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: westlake village, ca
Posts: 1,123
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scinerd3000 View Post
what exactly is a malliard reaction?
Loosely, browning. Similar to carmelization.
__________________
"..can the human soul be glimpsed through a microscope? Maybe, but you'd definitely need one of those very good ones with two eyepieces."


Twitter: LarryKonis
korndog is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:08 PM   #6
Lil' Sparky
Cowboys EAC
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Lil' Sparky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 4,013
Liked 66 Times on 43 Posts

Default

The ONLY time I've had any scorching in the MLT is when the mash stuck a little and my "recirculating mash" stopped recirculating. It was a big grain bill that I crushed too fine and my water to grain ratio was too low because the keg MLT was nearly full. I haven't set my mill that tight again, and I keep my water to grain ratio higher and haven't had a problem since. With 1/2" ID hoses I get a really good flow rate during recirculation. This prevents any scorching and also helps with not overshooting my target temps.

BTW - the beer with a little scorching in the MLT turned out fantastic.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by duffman2 View Post
I dub this beer the Double Slutty Triple Nutty Bodacious Booty Brunette!
Lil' Sparky is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:25 PM   #7
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,827
Liked 1342 Times on 878 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

Here's where I look at my 23 tip 100kBTU or so burner and go HMMMMM. Flame control is in order for a direct fire mash.
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
New 100% Stainless Steel Heating Elements are IN! ULWD 5500w Ripple, 2000w, 1500w, etc
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:29 PM   #8
Desert_Sky
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Desert_Sky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 4,090
Liked 50 Times on 38 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
Here's where I look at my 23 tip 100kBTU or so burner and go HMMMMM. Flame control is in order for a direct fire mash.


Hopefully test runs start soon. Ill let you know how it works out

*edit
as soon as those small ones that were used in the original Brutus become available again at B3 Im getting two of those
Desert_Sky is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 07:36 PM   #9
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 4 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,827
Liked 1342 Times on 878 Posts
Likes Given: 35

Default

I should import a gross of those bastids and make a mint. You know they're like $5 each in Hong Kong right?

There are two basic problems I have with my plugged burner. First is that it's impossible to run a pilot light because the flame doesn't migrate to all the other tips. The other is that I want to heat my strike water in the MLT because it seems intuitive; it preheats the tun of course and doesn't require moving water later. So, I want a raging flame for step one, then a docile flame for temp control.
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
New 100% Stainless Steel Heating Elements are IN! ULWD 5500w Ripple, 2000w, 1500w, etc
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.

Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2008, 08:03 PM   #10
Desert_Sky
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Desert_Sky's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sierra Vista, AZ
Posts: 4,090
Liked 50 Times on 38 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

and have you seen that B3 just bumped their price of them up to 59 bucks? They were 39 a few weeks back.

I have a feeling I may have to one of those long lighters until I can get a small burner to replace these with


Desert_Sky is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recirculating Direct Fire Mash - Carryover Temperature MNBugeater General Techniques 8 03-24-2009 08:51 PM
hows this look for a Direct fire mash tun? aekdbbop Equipment/Sanitation 2 05-08-2008 05:20 PM
Direct fire mash tun? BrewSapiens Equipment/Sanitation 8 04-27-2008 04:21 PM
Direct fire Kettle MLT - recirculate? Gordie All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 2 04-04-2008 07:38 PM
Direct fire mashtuns.. aekdbbop All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 30 01-17-2008 01:34 AM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS