Electric Heating Element Current Supply Concept - Home Brew Forums

Register Now!
Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Electric Heating Element Current Supply Concept

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-10-2008, 09:38 PM   #1
Jared311
 
Jared311's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2008
Columbia, MD
Posts: 500
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts



Alright, I have been thinking about a whole new concept for supplying the current for the electric heating element. If you have the money, you could design a switching capacitor bank that charged up using a smaller current draw. Then you could fire the capacitors with a large discharge creating the necessary current. I am literally sitting in class right now thinking of this, so I haven't really investigated the concept. The whole idea will rely on the calculations of how fast you can charge and discharge a capacitor. I figured I would start the thread now and add more info when I am not in class
__________________
Sláinte,
Jared311

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2008, 10:32 PM   #2
jca
Recipes 
 
Nov 2007
Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 27
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


What's the goal with that setup? What's the power source? If it's AC, you can just use a transformer to lower the voltage and increase the current. If it's DC, you can buy a power inverter off the shelf which is using capacitors to get the job done.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 12:15 AM   #3
Jared311
 
Jared311's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2008
Columbia, MD
Posts: 500
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
What's the goal with that setup? What's the power source? If it's AC, you can just use a transformer to lower the voltage and increase the current.
I am planning on using 120VAC as the power source for a resistive heating element. That won't work because the heating element will have a set resistance that doesn't depend on either the voltage or current. The power can be calculated using P=V^2/R which shows that with a constant resistance, reducing the voltage will result in also reducing the power delivered.
__________________
Sláinte,
Jared311

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 12:49 AM   #4
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 23,205
Liked 1660 Times on 1073 Posts


The size capacitor you'd need to make it even remotely useful would be about 10x the cost of running a 220v line.
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
BIAB Large Mesh False Bottoms and SS HERMS COILS are IN!!
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 01:06 AM   #5
Yuri_Rage
Gritty.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
 
Yuri_Rage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2006
Southwest
Posts: 14,285
Liked 804 Times on 510 Posts


I'm not entirely sure the idea has any merit at all. Your goal is to emulate a constant high voltage/current source using a low voltage/current source to charge capacitors. The problem is that the time it takes to charge the capacitors is going to be detrimental to the system. Sure, you'll get bursts of high power, but the heating element will cool while "waiting" for another burst of power. I'm almost positive that the net result will be that the element operates at an output of slightly less than what it would if you simply plugged it into the low voltage source (due to losses in the system). You can store energy, and you can use energy, but you can't pull it out of thin air.

We can help in finding a solution, but I think you need to define the problem a little more clearly. What power source is available? What heating elements are you considering? Most importantly, what are you trying to heat with the system ?
__________________
Homebrewed Blog..........YouTube Channel .......... Shirts, posters, etc

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 01:17 AM   #6
Yuri_Rage
Gritty.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
 
Yuri_Rage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2006
Southwest
Posts: 14,285
Liked 804 Times on 510 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared311
The power can be calculated using P=V^2/R which shows that with a constant resistance, reducing the voltage will result in also reducing the power delivered.
That equation is for instantaneous power. You need to calculate energy as a function of power and time to prove your concept (E = P x t).
__________________
Homebrewed Blog..........YouTube Channel .......... Shirts, posters, etc

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 01:19 AM   #7
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Aug 2006
Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 23,205
Liked 1660 Times on 1073 Posts


Yeah, Yuri's right. Your mass of water will already be acting like an energy store. Given the right kind of insulation and enough time, you can get up to just about any temp. It's not like you can charge a cap to the point where you can run a 5500watt element for an hour at full power. Again, why not run some 10/3 romex back to the panel?
__________________
Welcome to BrewHardware.com. I love you.
BIAB Large Mesh False Bottoms and SS HERMS COILS are IN!!
Chugger Pumps, Pump Kits, Camlocks, Sightglasses, Clear USA made Silicone Tubing, RIMS, Electric Install Parts, etc.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 01:29 AM   #8
Jared311
 
Jared311's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Feb 2008
Columbia, MD
Posts: 500
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


Yeah, this was all just a brain fart that came to me while zoning out in class tonight. I was going to see if maybe I had enough capacitors if I could charge and discharge while maintaining an increase in temperature. The idea doesn't seem plausible after a little bit of research.

Heres the problem I am facing. I am currently living in a rented house and can't mess with the circuit breaker at all. Its an old home and so it was wired extremely poorly. I don't think I can get away with running a 1375W heating element at 120VAC because it will draw around 11.5A. If it was my own place then I would just wire in a 30A breaker dedicated for just my brewing station.
__________________
Sláinte,
Jared311

 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 01:37 AM   #9
Yuri_Rage
Gritty.
HBT_MODERATOR.png
 
Yuri_Rage's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2006
Southwest
Posts: 14,285
Liked 804 Times on 510 Posts


IIRC, most building codes require 20A circuits for the kitchen. If you have a garage, check those circuits for a slightly higher rating as well. A large current draw like that could be enough to trip even 20A circuit if you're using anything else on the same circuit.

What are you trying to heat? A mash tun? Boil kettle? What capacity?
__________________
Homebrewed Blog..........YouTube Channel .......... Shirts, posters, etc


 
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2008, 01:39 AM   #10
wihophead
Recipes 
 
Jul 2007
Racine, Wisconsin
Posts: 700
Liked 3 Times on 2 Posts


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri_Rage
most building codes require 15A circuits for the kitchen.
I am guessing this was a typo....

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
electric heating element Brewpastor Brew Stands 9 01-01-2012 10:20 PM
Going electric, heating element question. jmp138 Kettles, Mash Tuns & Hot Liquor Tanks 33 02-27-2011 01:16 AM
anyone consider installing an electric heating element to their BK? krausenmustache Kettles, Mash Tuns & Hot Liquor Tanks 24 05-12-2009 05:29 PM
Electric heating element CircleC-Brewer Equipment/Sanitation 4 08-04-2008 08:26 PM
No-welding electric heating element? RockfordWhite Brew Stands 4 12-27-2007 06:52 AM


Forum Jump