I just built an inline carbonator, it works great!

I just put together an in-line carbonator. Since I had a lot of the parts and pieces on hand I only spent about $35.

I posted a video on YouTube of the build:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxLazijjgpU[/ame]


If you have to purchase the parts, I am posting links and info here and the approximate cost. I figure that it will probably cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $80, if you have to buy everything. One thing I didn't mention in the video was that right at the end of the hour I spent carbonating the keg the old 9 volt, 1 amp power supply I was using failed. I have since purchased a 12v/4amp power supply to replace it. Hopefully it will last as it is more appropriate.

I used threaded pin lock and ball lock keg connectors, so I can easily swap them out. You can buy cheaper barbed connectors and save on fittings and clamps. I used 3/16" ID hose for the aeration stone fitting and 5/16" ID hose for the beer lines, on 1/4" fittings (the pump said it had 5/16" barbs).

Parts:
Carbonization/Aeration Stone Fitting ($10 shipped) -
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-Silver-...-2-Micron-Homebrew-Beer-Brewing-/232110590689

Self Priming Pump - 12V - 100psi - 1 gallon/minute ($16.50 shipped) - http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Solid-1...Self-Priming-Pump-High-Pressure-/131556382165

Pump Power Supply - 12V/4A ($6)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111708861119?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


Stainless Steel "T" ($2.25 + Shipping) - http://www.supplyhouse.com/Merit-Brass-K406-08-T304-1-2-Stainless-Steel-Tee

Barbed Hose Fittings ($2.25 + Shipping) - http://www.supplyhouse.com/Jones-Stephens-G25048-1-4-Hose-Barb-x-1-2-Male-Brass-Pipe-Adapter, or at Menards/Lowes/Home Depot ($3).

Hose - ($2.99 ea for 10 FT, 3/16" and 5/16" ID ) - Menards, Lowes, Home Depot

Thumb Screw Hose Clamps - ($5 for a box assortment of 26) - Harbor Freight - http://www.harborfreight.com/26-piece-key-type-hose-clamp-assortment-67669.html

Keg Connectors ($14 a set, pin lock or Ball Lock) -
Pin Lock
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Homebrew-So...026275?hash=item3f2b65b863:g:AOUAAOSwo4pYKhuB

Ball Lock
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ball-Lock-K...703667?hash=item210c904ab3:g:9agAAOSwH6lXRF3n

1/4" Swivel nuts for Keg Connectors - ($2 - $3 ea) - http://www.homebrewing.org/14-Swivel-Flare-Nut-x-38-Barb_p_107.html

http://www.homebrewing.org/14-Swivel-Flare-Nut-x-14-Barb_p_106.html

CO2 Fittings - Depends on your tank, probably the swivel flare nuts above at $2 - $3 each. I used quick connects and a valve that cost about $8.

That should about cover it.

Here are some pictures:

Nice.

I see great utility in using it to oxygenate wort prior to pitching yeast as well. Since I ferment in a corny I could use the exact same setup connected to oxygen instead of CO2. I normally don't leave a dip tube in the keg while it ferments, but I could put a short one in so that it reaches liquid.

The only potential issue is see is the plastic pump.... would prefer stainless.

Interesting build. I dig it. Do you have the link for the pump you bought?

Nice work!

jamaral141989 said:

Interesting build. I dig it. Do you have the link for the pump you bought?

Click to expand...

Here it is.
Self Priming Pump - 12V - 100psi - 1 gallon/minute ($16.50 shipped) - http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Solid-10...-/131556382165

I copied it from the initial post, let me know if it isn't working for you.

No, my fault. Totally scrolled over that to the pics

spittybug said:

Nice.

I see great utility in using it to oxygenate wort prior to pitching yeast as well. Since I ferment in a corny I could use the exact same setup connected to oxygen instead of CO2. I normally don't leave a dip tube in the keg while it ferments, but I could put a short one in so that it reaches liquid.

The only potential issue is see is the plastic pump.... would prefer stainless.

Click to expand...

Agreed, the stone will work for that too, especially since you are already fermenting in the keg. If you used it for bucket fermenters you would just need to adapt the liquid hoses during the transfer. The pump is rated at a gallon a minute. I wonder how much oxygen you would need to use in 5 or 6 minutes for a batch. I don't think you would have to open it up very far.

I built this just this morning with one of the little brown Chinese pumps that others on this forum have used for recirculation. I currently have it working on a keg of Leffe clone I made. Very obvious to see the bubbles in the outlet and not on the inlet. I find it helps to burp the keg every once in a while to get rid of head pressure that slows the process down. It also pushes out oxygen I'm sure. I'm going to let it go for an hour or so and see how it looks. The hardest part is priming it. I found the secret is to lie the keg on its side, let the liquid flow from the dip tube to the pump inlet and get going, then you can stand it upright and even put it back in the keezer if you wish. My setup has dual regulators for C02, one of which is dedicated to an outside-the-keezer line that I keep at 30lbs to use as a quick carber. I have a black quick connect on it which I would bubble through the dip tube. Now I've reduced it to 11 or so psi and using a coupler, quick connect to the stone via another quick connect. (I'll post a pic once I pretty things up). Easy peasy. The aquarium pump isn't powerful enough to bubble through the SS stone so I'll rig up a fitting comb to connect up an oxygen cylinder and use this setup to oxygen the wort when I pitch yeast.

Ridiculously simple; I'm jealous that I didn't think of it.

I thought this was going to be about carbonating on the way to your pint glass. How is this not oxidizing the f*ck out of your beer? Your keg isn't 100% purged of O2, ya know. It's splashing down from the gas-in post after being pulled through the liquid tube to the carbonation stone? No no no no no no....

beersk said:

I thought this was going to be about carbonating on the way to your pint glass. How is this not oxidizing the f*ck out of your beer? Your keg isn't 100% purged of O2, ya know. It's splashing down from the gas-in post after being pulled through the liquid tube to the carbonation stone? No no no no no no....

Click to expand...

It appears to work just like the Blichman Quick Carbonator. Lots of really good reviews on the Blichman too. I don't have either of them but I am seriously considering building one of these.

Yea, I don't see where there is an issue with O2 ingress. just purge the keg and your lines and your all set.

beersk said:

I thought this was going to be about carbonating on the way to your pint glass. How is this not oxidizing the f*ck out of your beer? Your keg isn't 100% purged of O2, ya know. It's splashing down from the gas-in post after being pulled through the liquid tube to the carbonation stone? No no no no no no....

Click to expand...

What oxygen? It's a closed system with your keg. If you have oxygen in your head space, that means you didn't burp it or purge it in any case, so all you are doing is speeding up the oxidation you would get anyway. If you DID purge your keg, you are not introducing any new oxygen.

For pitching yeast, I will be using the same setup and I have just ordered an oxygen tank regulator to use disposable cylinders. 60 seconds ought to be plenty..

beersk said:

I thought this was going to be about carbonating on the way to your pint glass. How is this not oxidizing the f*ck out of your beer? Your keg isn't 100% purged of O2, ya know. It's splashing down from the gas-in post after being pulled through the liquid tube to the carbonation stone? No no no no no no....

Click to expand...

The first thing you do after filling a keg with beer is to purge it of Oxygen (O2) with CO2 (there is a difference). If you don't do this, every beer you drink would be oxidized. That is the whole point of pushing beer with CO2. You do this whether you are slow-regular or force-quick carbonating. Even if you add priming sugar to carbonate a keg you need to purge it of O2 after filling.

You then purge the lines prior to starting with the carbonator by pushing any air out of the lines with CO2 from your tank. So, while the beer does "splash down from the gas-in post" it is in s sealed system and is splashing through pure CO2. So it isn't "oxidizing the f*ck out of" my beer as there is no Oxygen.

It doesn't go into the pint glass until it is fully carbonated, which takes about an hour. If you pushed it into a class with this system all you would get is foam which would quickly dissipate, giving you flat beer. It takes about an hour for the CO2 to infuse itself into the beer using the carbonation stone.

spittybug said:

What oxygen? It's a closed system with your keg. If you have oxygen in your head space, that means you didn't burp it or purge it in any case, so all you are doing is speeding up the oxidation you would get anyway. If you DID purge your keg, you are not introducing any new oxygen.

For pitching yeast, I will be using the same setup and I have just ordered an oxygen tank regulator to use disposable cylinders. 60 seconds ought to be plenty..

Click to expand...

While it will work with oxygen I don't think you can pump it fast enough to do it only in a minute. It will take 2 or 3 to transfer the wort through the system (depending on batch size).

I think just dropping the stone into your fermentation container and running it slowly for 60 seconds may be enough. There are some studies and comparisons of the various ways to oxygenate wort and how much is absorbed with each method (shaking, air pump & stone, O2 tank & stone). I am not sure where I read about them (Google it)

I have also read that you don't need to open your tank very far for it to infuse enough O2 into the wort. If you open it too far I guess you are just wasting O2 as it isn't getting absorbed. So if you do create a rig like this start the infusion slowly.

Let us know how it works. I think that may be my next purchase too. I currently use an aquarium stone and pump for 5-10 minutes in the fermenter. I just bought a stainless stone.

Well, first of all, it's nearly impossible to 100% purge O2 out of your keg, even if you fill with sanitizer to the brim and push out with 5 PSI (best way). You'll still have small amounts in there. Then again, I'm a low oxygen brewer, so I'm crazy paranoid about any amount of O2 present and try to spund every beer.

beersk said:

Well, first of all, it's nearly impossible to 100% purge O2 out of your keg, even if you fill with sanitizer to the brim and push out with 5 PSI (best way). You'll still have small amounts in there. Then again, I'm a low oxygen brewer, so I'm crazy paranoid about any amount of O2 present and try to spund every beer.

Click to expand...

You can fill a keg with sanitizer, purge the keg and then push it out to achieve whatever level of residual O2 you'd like. You don't have to spund every beer. Plus if you are spunding that means you're priming in the keg. Not exactly applicable to a thread about inline carbonation.

TheHopfather said:

You can fill a keg with sanitizer, purge the keg and then push it out to achieve whatever level of residual O2 you'd like. You don't have to spund every beer. Plus if you are spunding that means you're priming in the keg. Not exactly applicable to a thread about inline carbonation.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I know it's not applicable, that's not why I mentioned it. Was just merely concerned about residual CO2 in the keg getting into the beer while it's recirculating.

beersk said:

Yeah, I know it's not applicable, that's not why I mentioned it. Was just merely concerned about residual CO2 in the keg getting into the beer while it's recirculating.

Click to expand...

I assume you mean O2 in this post.

I think you are worrying too much. I have never had a problem with oxygenation after purging a keg. There just isn't enough O2 left in it to make a difference. I feel the same way about pushing a full keg of sanitizer out with CO2. That is just a waste of CO2. The beer will displace the O2 and the rest of the natural atmosphere just fine.

When I bottle I purge the headspace in the bottles with CO2 too. I have helped a local brewery bottle and we purge bombers for 5-10 seconds before filling them. Beer Guns also purge bottles. I am of the opinion that in most if not all cases just putting some CO2 on the top of the fill is just fine. Your not going to introduce that much Oxygen that fast and the CO2 being heavier will push everything else out.

Most of this is just FUD.

TheHopfather said:

You can fill a keg with sanitizer, purge the keg and then push it out to achieve whatever level of residual O2 you'd like. You don't have to spund every beer. Plus if you are spunding that means you're priming in the keg. Not exactly applicable to a thread about inline carbonation.

Click to expand...

Interesting chart. I usually purge 5 or 6 times at around 10-12 lbs. Do you know how many PPM of O2 left would cause problems? I never heard the of the term Spunding and had to google it. I have primed kegs after primary and never thought of having a relief valve.

BitterSweetBrews said:

Interesting chart. I usually purge 5 or 6 times at around 10-12 lbs. Do you know how many PPM of O2 left would cause problems? I never heard the of the term Spunding and had to google it. I have primed kegs after primary and never thought of having a relief valve.

Click to expand...

No, I'm not sure what level will start to cause problems, I do know that professional breweries aim to package hoppy beer with 0.15 ppm total packaged O2. Does homebrew need to acheive the same level of TPO? Probably not, but it is nice to know what the big boys are aiming for.

Spunding typically isn't used when you are priming the keg. You use a spunding valve to ferment in the keg. This allows you to have a closed system, which will carbonate naturally, yet maintain a desired level of carbonation without over carbing. The LoDo guys swear you need to spund in order to eliminate O2 in the beer.

That purge chart was actually created by user @doug293cz, I take no credit for it. He's actually got another table that you may find useful to calculate your headspace purges (attached). According to Doug's calculations 6 purges at 12.5 psi is leaving 5232 ppm of O2 in the head space of the keg. So you can see that it is a wee bit off the 0.15 ppm goal of a professional brewery.

TheHopfather said:

No, I'm not sure what level will start to cause problems, I do know that professional breweries aim to package hoppy beer with 0.15 ppm total packaged O2. Does homebrew need to acheive the same level of TPO? Probably not, but it is nice to know what the big boys are aiming for.

Spunding typically isn't used when you are priming the keg. You use a spunding valve to ferment in the keg. This allows you to have a closed system, which will carbonate naturally, yet maintain a desired level of carbonation without over carbing. The LoDo guys swear you need to spund in order to eliminate O2 in the beer.

That purge chart was actually created by user @doug293cz, I take no credit for it. He's actually got another table that you may find useful to calculate your headspace purges (attached). According to Doug's calculations 6 purges at 12.5 psi is leaving 5232 ppm of O2 in the head space of the keg. So you can see that it is a wee bit off the 0.15 ppm goal of a professional brewery.

Click to expand...

Yea, It looks like I need to dial up the pressure a bit. I am a little amazed that it takes that many times to dilute the headspace down.

I wonder if pushing CO2 through the dip tube and opening up the gas port for the exhaust would speed it up or just stir it up.

I appreciate the feedback. This has been real educational. Purging a dozen times seems excessive, but I think I'll start taking the extra minute to add a half dozen more cycles and see if I notice any difference.

So I got this built today and it works like a charm. Also tried hooking up a randall to it to use it as a mini "torpedo". Works like a charm with that as well. Now I'm going to build it on a much larger scale for our 4 bbl fermenters. Thanks for the build!

jamaral141989 said:

So I got this built today and it works like a charm. Also tried hooking up a randall to it to use it as a mini "torpedo". Works like a charm with that as well. Not I'm going to build it on a much larger scale for our 4 bbl fermenters. Thanks for the build!

Click to expand...

That's a great idea! I was going to dry hop a batch of APA and my just try to build a Randall to see if it would be better.

My pump is scheduled to arrive tonight. I'll need it to get a keg carbed up in a hurry as I'll need to bottle some for a club comp tomo night.

Todd

UPDATE - I got everything together and ran it for an hour at around 12 psi. I couldn't see any more bubbles in the beer out line after an hour. Everything was in the keezer at ~38F so I was looking at a little over 2.5 volumes. It was a gose and I wanted it on the high end. I tasted it and it was on the under carbed side. The next morning, I cranked the CO2 up to 18 psi and ran for another hour. There were just a few bubbles in the beer out line after that. I tried it and the carbonation was acceptable but could have gone a bit more. I'm upgrading the fittings to make breaking the lines a little easier and will try it again soon. This first run seems to indicate that you'll have to run the pressure 8-10 psi higher to achieve the target volumes of CO2. Or just set it according to the chart and do the bulk of the carbonation in an hour then finish it off "normally" over the course of a couple of days.

Todd

UPDATE 2 - I tried this again over the weekend. Based on what I observed, I'm going to try increasing the pressure gradually next time. I'm thinking that by cranking it up "high" at the start may be up putting too much pressure in the head space of the keg that may end up working against me as the head pressure approaches the regulator setting (?). I'll start at something really low like 5 psi and give it slight increases over the course of the hour.

Could you just use a chugger type pump to circulate this? Could you prime the pump with beer by pressurizing the keg a bit to get the flow started then turn on the pump? Would maybe need a release valve near the keg return post to get it moving by letting some of the pressure off? I already have a chugger pump.

I'd say as long as you have a control valve on your chugger pump you should be able to use it.

I've been looking at building something like this too, actually just wrote on my blog about it. One issue I ran into is that these cheaper diaphragm pumps appear to be made with ABS plastic, and are not considered food safe. Did you verify yours is food safe or what the plastic is before buying it?

spittybug said:

I built this just this morning with one of the little brown Chinese pumps that others on this forum have used for recirculation

Click to expand...

PsychoBiter said:

Could you just use a chugger type pump to circulate this?

Click to expand...

jamaral141989 said:

I'd say as long as you have a control valve on your chugger pump you should be able to use it.

Click to expand...

Do you foresee any issues with using an impeller driven pump? spittybug, is your pump impeller driven? I would have thought that would cause CO2 to come out of solution, much like degassing wine, but maybe because the system is pressurise it actually manages to help carb faster??

Well I quick carbed another keg last weekend. It worked great. In fact, a little to great.

The first pours were 2/3 foam. The beer does taste great. I open the release valve and purged it and put it on regular pressure of around 11lbs and it is still foamy. I have since removed the gas and have opened the release valve to purged it a few times. It is getting better.

Looking over instructions for the "B" commercial version of this type of system it says to run it for a half hour. I think I will try that next time and take some samples during the process.

One other thing. I did succumb to the Oxygen fear and purged the keg a dozen times before starting.

Knowing now that the 15 PPM O2 number is important is good. The 30lbs pressure info is also good information and is very important to know and use.

I have pondered this whole process and I think that getting the oxygen out amounts to a geometric progression of adding about 50% CO2 to the headspace each time and letting 50% of the combined gasses out. Each time you do this you have half the amount of O2 left then you had before. Do this enough times and you will have next to no O2 left and essentially all CO2.

Hear is the reasoning behind the number of times to do this:

Atmospheric pressure is around 14.5%. I am surmising that pressurizing at 30psi puts in about 50% CO2 because it is a little more than twice the normal pressure. Atmosphere has about 21% O2 or 210,000 parts per million (surprisingly, CO2 is only .04% or 400 ppm) . If you divide 210,000 in half then the result in half and continue this enough times you eventually get to a number under 15. This works out to 14 times. To get to under 1 PPM or ~0, it takes 19 times.

So to get to under 15 PPM you need to purge your keg 14 or more times.

I'm surprised to hear you over carbed the beer using this system, that should be impossible to do if you're at serving temperature and pressure. Unless you weren't using serving temp/pressure, in which case you should be.

Also your math is a little off. First, atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 psi, not % The pressure gauges we use shows relative pressure (or gauge pressure), which is zero referenced to atmospheric pressure. What this means if that if I pressurise a vessel to 14.7 psi, that has an absolute pressure of 29.4 psi. Absolute pressure measures from 0 psi (perfect vacuum).

So if you pressurise to 30 psi you're roughly tripling the moles of gas in the keg, not doubling them. This drops you to 9 purges to get rid of the oxygen, though only if you assume perfect mixing and distribution of the gases.

PsychoBiter said:

Could you just use a chugger type pump to circulate this? Could you prime the pump with beer by pressurizing the keg a bit to get the flow started then turn on the pump? Would maybe need a release valve near the keg return post to get it moving by letting some of the pressure off? I already have a chugger pump.

Click to expand...

Absolutely not, unless you want to oxidize the hell out of your beer. That is the entire purpose of having to have a diaphragm pump. Only a diaphragm pump can be used post fermentation.

donk5 said:

Absolutely not, unless you want to oxidize the hell out of your beer. That is the entire purpose of having to have a diaphragm pump. Only a diaphragm pump can be used post fermentation.

Click to expand...

My concern with a Chugger wouldn't be oxygen, as you should be purging the system with CO2 prior to using it, but the impeller knocking CO2 in solution out again and working against your goal. Since it's pre-carbonation stone, though, I'm not sure it would matter.

donk5 said:

Absolutely not, unless you want to oxidize the hell out of your beer. That is the entire purpose of having to have a diaphragm pump. Only a diaphragm pump can be used post fermentation.

Click to expand...

Where is the oxygen coming from if you get all the oxygen out of the lines and keg your beer after purging for oxygen with Santizer and Co2?

Gremlyn said:

My concern with a Chugger wouldn't be oxygen, as you should be purging the system with CO2 prior to using it, but the impeller knocking CO2 in solution out again and working against your goal. Since it's pre-carbonation stone, though, I'm not sure it would matter.

Click to expand...

I don't think Co2 won't come out of solution if the whole system is pressureized with Co2. We will see.

The LoDo guys take it even further and claim that CO2 from a tank has too much O2 and will oxidize your beer

Thanks for the build! I only needed the pump and the stone, kind a felt I had to build it. It will come in handy and I'm happy to have it in my "arsenal".

An awesome build and tutorial! My question would be: If the last beer you always pour is the best, would this make that point much sooner? or would the beer still have to sit to hit its best point?

Dolomieu said:

Thanks for the build! I only needed the pump and the stone, kind a felt I had to build it. It will come in handy and I'm happy to have it in my "arsenal".

Click to expand...

That looks great!

Hope it works as well as it looks.

I did my 3rd keg with it a couple days ago.

The pump still works OK but has stopped self priming. I have to push water through it to get it going. Then I run StarSan through it for a while, then push the StarSan out with beer to get it working. I think I may need to pull the pump head apart and put some keg lube on it.

On this 3rd keg it was a Wit that needed to be around 3.0 volumes. The beer was at 38 degrees and I ran it for 45 minutes at 15 lbs. There were still bubbles in the line but I stopped and took a sample. It came out 80% foam. Next time I am only going for 30 minutes, like "B" recommends on theirs.

I have taken it off CO2 and have bled the keg three times over the last two days. Now the pour is at about 25% foam. It does taste good.

Making sure your keg has a PRV is a good idea, just in case. I have some PIN locks that didn't have them and I bought different lids.

GRBC said:

The LoDo guys take it even further and claim that CO2 from a tank has too much O2 and will oxidize your beer

Click to expand...

They base this on the spec for bev grade CO2 which says the tank must be at least 99.9% CO2, or 0.1% max contaminates, which presumably would be mostly air. However most beverage CO2 is much purer than the spec requires. I remember seeing a study which showed bev grade CO2 typically had ~50 ppb (0.05 ppm) O2, which wouldn't be a problem.

Brew on

After having the self priming issues I let the vendor know and asked for advice. They asked me to try a couple things, mainly manually priming stuff. I did and they didn't work. I let them know and they sent me another pump, no charge and no return necessary.

In addition to what they said to do I also took the head apart, removed the diaphragm and cleaned everything out. It worked a little better but still would not easily self-prime.

I appreciated their good customer service.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131556382165?ul_noapp=true