Unbalanced water

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brewprint

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I've taken the step to get my water tested finally. I'm trying to figure out exactly what I need to do to get the proper pH doing full volume mashes.

I put the report into the bru'n water and it says it's unbalanced. I'm lost here.

Also, what is the best way to figure out what I need to do to get my water corrected?

pH 8.1
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 985
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 1.64
Cations / Anions, me/L 15.6 / 16.3

Sodium, Na 332
Potassium, K 1
Calcium, Ca 13
Magnesium, Mg 6
Total Hardness, CaCO3 58
Nitrate, NO3-N < 0.1 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 159
Chloride, Cl 19
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 354
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 294
Total Phosphorus, P < 0.01
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01
 
I'm not an expert, but I'll take a stab.

Looks like you've got unusually high Sodium levels which is really the only major concern with you water. Are you using a water softener?


You've got pretty hard water over all, but with low calcium levels and high sulfates. Typically hard water is better suited for dark beers. Normally I'd think you'd be good to go for a Stout as-is but the Sodium is really pretty high. I'd probably start cuttting your source water 50/50 with RO water and use that for a base water, maybe adding some calcium in the form of Calcium Chloride for malty beers and Gypsum for hoppy beers.

Maybe someone with a bit of a better grasp on water chemistry can jump in on this one for you, but that's where I'd start.
 
It does look like water softener output. But I'll be a bit more blunt... You have a tremendous amount of sodium and very high bicarbonate/alkalinity. You also have sulfate that is too high for most styles. It's unsuitable brewing water in my opinion.

Is distilled/RO an option, or at the very least, store bought spring water? 50% dilution is not going to come close to helping. It will still leave you with 165 ppm Na, and unruly alkalinity.

We all want to make our readily accessible, free tap water work... but sometimes it's a major hassle and not worth the trouble.
 
I put the report into the bru'n water and it says it's unbalanced. I'm lost here.

Cations / Anions, me/L 15.6 / 16.3

Your report says it is unbalanced 15.6 to 16.3. Those two numbers have to be equal. So why aren't they? It is either because some cation and/or some anion has not been measured but is present in the water (strontium for example) and/or some errors have been made in the measurements or calculated values of those ions which are in the report.

There really isn't anything you can do about this. Just put the numbers into the spreadsheet and sail on.

As has been pointed out the picture painted by those numbers isn't particularly attractive. You will probably want to install an RO system.
 
Well that totally sucks. There's no way around this by adding chemicals or something?

The last thing that I want to do is add an RO system. This is city water here.

There's not another filter I can use?

This is already being ran through a whole house water filter.
 
RO is a series of filters. Is your house filter a carbon unit or an actual water softener? There's nearly 1,000 ppm of dissolved solids in your water as tested. And sodium is a major byproduct of a water softener's action. Typically, such units replace calcium and magnesium ions with sodium. That's why we asked.

Aside from what was revealed in the report, do you have flavor issues with your beer?
 
Well that totally sucks. There's no way around this by adding chemicals or something?

No. You neeed to take 'chemicals' out. you have 14.5 mEq/L sodium and 6 mEq/L alkalinity. It has been suggested in earlier posts that this water may well be post water softener in which case there would have been plenty of calcium to decarbonate (by adding chemicals) but that would still leave very hard water with 477 mg/L sulfate. Even the real sulfate afficionados use less than that (its also above EPA recommended limits)

The last thing that I want to do is add an RO system.
In truth, it's the first thing you want to do.


There's not another filter I can use?
You can run it through a particle filter, then a carbon block filter, then an RO membrane filter

This is already being [run] through a whole house water filter.
 
I appreciate the information. I'm going to purchase an RO system for roughly $200 and put it in my basement.

The next thing that I need to do is figure out where that water is going to go.

I was thinking of buying a 20 gallon container and putting it up off the ground with a valve on it so I can just fill a few buckets on brew day.

Thoughts on a container?
 
Since your signature lists several light colored beers that are on draft, and such beers would generally be predicted to perform poorly with your water from a pH and flavor perspective...

...do you notice any issues, or does your beer taste great to you?
 
Since your signature lists several light colored beers that are on draft, and such beers would generally be predicted to perform poorly with your water from a pH and flavor perspective...

...do you notice any issues, or does your beer taste great to you?

There are issues. That's why I thought about doing the water test.

I wanted to adjust mash pH and it started that way.
 
Just for curiosity I plugged your water into the online Brewer's Friend water calculator. BTW, the sulfate is reported as SO4-S, i.e. sulfur, so you need to multiply it by 3. That means SO4 is actually 477 ppm in your water.

I plugged in a simple grist I use for a pale ale - 80% UK 2-row, 10% C60, 10% biscuit. SRM is 11, OG 1.049.

With a full volume mash, it predicts a mash pH of 6.20. If you dilute 50% with RO/DI, it's 5.96. With straight RO/DI water, it's 5.56. I shoot for 5.43-46 when I brew this beer.
 
I was thinking of buying a 20 gallon container and putting it up off the ground with a valve on it so I can just fill a few buckets on brew day.

Thoughts on a container?

That's a fine approach. I'll make the suggestion that you get a larger tank as you can then, by starting collection a day or more before you brew, have plenty of RO water on hand. Another thing to consider is a pump connected to the outlet at the bottom. With that you can send water anywhere you want by flipping a switch or plugging in.
 
There are issues. That's why I thought about doing the water test.

I wanted to adjust mash pH and it started that way.

Yeah with that level of bicarbonate you're going to have to add a lot (too much) acid to bring pH in line for light beers.

Also as stated earlier your sodium is very high. Maybe just brew a lot of Gose? :D

Your plan to get an RO filter is about your only option. :mug:
 
That's a fine approach. I'll make the suggestion that you get a larger tank as you can then, by starting collection a day or more before you brew, have plenty of RO water on hand. Another thing to consider is a pump connected to the outlet at the bottom. With that you can send water anywhere you want by flipping a switch or plugging in.

I may eventually get a pump of some kind but I will be brewing almost 100 feet away from where this is. I need a little exercise anyway :)
 
Now I need to figure out what I need to add to the RO water.
 
Now I need to figure out what I need to add to the RO water.

Usually all you'll need is calcium chloride and calcium sulfate plus some acid (lactic, phosphoric, or acid malt). If you're already playing with Brun Water then try plugging in those 3 things to dial in your target Ca, Cl and SO4, then get your target pH by adjusting the acid. Works for me.
 
Usually all you'll need is calcium chloride and calcium sulfate plus some acid (lactic, phosphoric, or acid malt). If you're already playing with Brun Water then try plugging in those 3 things to dial in your target Ca, Cl and SO4, then get your target pH by adjusting the acid. Works for me.

I was messing around with the ez water calculator and I see I need Epsom salt, gypsum (CaCO) and Calcium Chloride.
 
Now I need to figure out what I need to add to the RO water.

That's really extremely simple. You can use elaborate spreadsheets and calculators that will ask you whether you are shooting for a northern or southern version of the particular style and prescribe a profile which you might not be able to match (or match very well). You get as close as you can, brew the beer and then taste it with incremental additions of salts to see if your calculator recommended too much or too little of each salt.

OR, you can add 2.5 grams (half tsp) of calcium chloride and 2.5 grams of gypsum to each 5 gal of your RO water and brew with that. You still have to do the taste based mineral adjustment tests but you don't have to be confused by the myriad of offered profiles or the peculiarities of the particular software package (or packages) you have chosen. This is not to say that there isn't a time in your brewing when those programs won't be of benefit to you but that time probably isn't now.

There's a little more to it than that. See the Primer.
 
That's really extremely simple. You can use elaborate spreadsheets and calculators that will ask you whether you are shooting for a northern or southern version of the particular style and prescribe a profile which you might not be able to match (or match very well). You get as close as you can, brew the beer and then taste it with incremental additions of salts to see if your calculator recommended too much or too little of each salt.

OR, you can add 2.5 grams (half tsp) of calcium chloride and 2.5 grams of gypsum to each 5 gal of your RO water and brew with that. You still have to do the taste based mineral adjustment tests but you don't have to be confused by the myriad of offered profiles or the peculiarities of the particular software package (or packages) you have chosen. This is not to say that there isn't a time in your brewing when those programs won't be of benefit to you but that time probably isn't now.

There's a little more to it than that. See the Primer.

What I did on the EZ calculator was put in the grain bill and amount of mash water for the 11 gallon batch of IPA that I did on Saturday. Then I put in different chemicals to get the correct pH along with making sure that my Chloride/Sulfite ratio was good.

I would think that I can do this same thing on my Beersmith software, which is at home at the moment.

Sounds like gravy train. I'm not necessarily shooting for style water profiles ATM as I'm looking to get my pH in the correct ball park.

By doing full volume mash that changes if you're doing sparge, which I don't do.
 
I was messing around with the ez water calculator and I see I need Epsom salt, gypsum (CaCO) and Calcium Chloride.

Dunno if this was a typo but just FYI:

Gypsum is CaSO4 (what you want to add)
Chalk is CaCO3 (what you don't generally don't want to add)

Generally not a lot of people add Epsom Salt (MgSO4) because malt supplies the low levels of Mg needed and SO4 is available from gypsum additions which also add calcium. No reason why you can't though if that's what you're going for.
 
Dunno if this was a typo but just FYI:

Gypsum is CaSO4 (what you want to add)
Chalk is CaCO3 (what you don't generally don't want to add)

Generally not a lot of people add Epsom Salt (MgSO4) because malt supplies the low levels of Mg needed and SO4 is available from gypsum additions which also add calcium. No reason why you can't though if that's what you're going for.

That was a typo.

According to EZ water (Palmer) if I don't add that Epsom salt it changes the Chloride / Sulfate ratio to unbalanced.
 
Perhaps but knowledgeable brewers don't care about chloride/sulfate ratio. See the Sticky on that subject.

Got it.

Now it looks like I can get my pH down to 5.3 using 10oz acidulated malt, 10 grams of Gypsum, and 10 grams of Calcium Chloride. No need for the epsom salt.

This with a 26lb grain bill and 14.3 gallons of water doing a full volume no sparge application. The grain bill is lighter malts for an IPA.

When adding acidulated malt, am I taking that amount away from the original base malt?
 
Well I just installed my RO system. I see on my gauge that I'm going from 634ppm to 17ppm.

I'm letting it run for a few hours before I fill up my barrel.

Thanks for all of your advice guys. I bet this is going to transform my beer!
 

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