Taking the Plunge...My Experiences of Going from Extract to BIAB

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Tricerahops220

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So I finally did it, I decided that enough was enough and bought the supplies to make my first BIAB batch. This was my first all grain attempt and it was met with quite a few trials and tribulations.

Over the past several months I had been going back and forth with myself on what my next big purchase would be for home brewing and after several boil-overs, it became apparent that I needed a new kettle. After searching nonchalantly for a couple of months, I had finally narrowed my search down to two brands but then came the real decision, 10 gallon or 15 gallon? Months went by as I changed my mind continuously, seemingly holding me off from switching to all grain until I had it. Finally, someone on this site sort of straightened me out. F*#k the kettle, go with what you have now and start small. Don't get caught up on the 5 gallon batch or bust, and they were completely right.

So I took the plunge and went to the local hardware store in search of a paint strainer but, believe it or not, no luck. So, as the clock was winding down, I headed straight for a LHBS, close to work, in search of some grains to make a 3 gallon batch of Biermunchers Centennial Blonde.

Big shout out to Beer Wine Hobby in Woburn, Mass for showing me around. They had an unbelievable selection of grains, hops, and yeast. They had a massive selection of partial grain kits made in house, right there. They also had a plethora of grains with everything you can imagine (American, German, and English) along with 4-5 freezers and fridges loaded with hops. I collected my grains, and crushed them right there. Looked like the crush was pretty good after the first go around as well. Got to checkout and grabbed a BIAB bag (26" x 26") which was a little overkill for my 5 gallon kettle but it was better than nothing. I was blown away by how cheap the grain bill came out to, only about $10.

I began the process around 12:30 EST today (21JAN2016). Filled the kettle with my calculated strike water volume (Thank you Priceless Brew in a Bag Calculator) of 3.4 gallons (my stove has a low boil off rate). I heated the strike water to 152 degrees, only 2 higher than that the recipe calls for, knowing there would be some losses when I added the lower temp grains. Well, those losses, turned out to be much larger than I anticipated.

After mash in/dough in, I put the thermometer probe back in and it read 145, so I had a 7 degree drop when putting 4.375 lbs of grain in. I began to heat the water back up to hopefully 152 stirring the grains every few minutes. Well, this is where I went wrong. I stirred the grains ever so softly, concerned about how fragile the actual bag was, so I never actually stirred the thick bed of grains down on the bottom of the pot. When I finally figured this out, I stirred the grains vigorously only to watch the temp readout skyrocket to 167. I immediately grabbed some cool water and added about 1/10 of a gallon which, after stirring for a few minutes, brought the temp to 154. A touch more water was added, then I put the lid on the kettle and wrapped it in 3 sweatshirts.

Now as I write this, I have 15 minutes left before mash out but I will keep you posted.

Oh and one more thing, so far, this whole all grain switch is way way easier than I ever expected. My advise to anyone on the fence is the same advise I got, F@#k it, just go for it! Start small though.

Pictures to follow

Cheers! :mug:
 
start small and then the bug bites you especially once you get confident... thennnnnnn its all aboard the crazy train.
 
I went from Fly,Batch and finally no sparge. Also from small pot to keggles, stove to gas and back to stove and now induction with my spike 10 gal. For most people this sounds crazy but I can adapt to any problems very quickly on brew day and have a huge inventory of spare parts as well.

The path you are on will give you a greater understanding of your limitations and ability IMO. Good luck on your brew! Money will not make you a better brewer, only you can do that.
 
Congrats on taking the plunge! Enjoy the process. Just tasted my first all grain and it is delicious. Take notes so you can improve upon the small errors.
 
Good job getting busy and brewing some beer!

Yes, stirring while adding heat means to STIR the entire mash, especially at the bottom of the pot where the heat is!!!!

Now just imagine had you attempted this with a pump and thermostat probe and a tangential port....omg you may have passed out lol.

Cheers to learning, imo its more important than the equipment.

I recall a funny expression I read here years ago, "an expert brewer could make a better beer in his hat, than a novice with a full kit of equipment"

While an obvious exaggeration, some bits of truth shine through.

Cheers
 
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485034553.245156.jpg
This was just after restabilizing the mash temp. Only took about 5 mins to bring it back to 153 degrees.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485034616.877365.jpg
Temp at mash out. Right on target

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Managed to find myself a 13 quart colander which would fit above the pot so I could let the bag from there while I began to bring the wort up to a boil.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485034719.361983.jpg
Just prior to hot break. T-minus 1 hour to cool down

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485034774.164574.jpg
Took about 15 minutes to bring the wort down to pitching temp.
 
Good on you! Methinks the bug has bitten and you'll soon be doing this regularly with fewer mishaps/misteps each time. As @wilserbrewer said, "Cheers to learning, imo its more important than the equipment." I heartily second that! Ed
:mug:
 
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485035771.153278.jpg
Good color on the beer. I've never been able to get an extract batch that light in color.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485035831.896932.jpg
Missed my OG by 0.009 or 0.007 points so we will see how this once comes out.

Overall, this was way easier than I expected. Only one additional step from an extract batch for what I hope will be much better beer. Time will tell in 2 weeks on how this comes out. If it's good, I see another one in my near future
 
View attachment 385657
Good color on the beer. I've never been able to get an extract batch that light in color.

View attachment 385658
Missed my OG by 0.009 or 0.007 points so we will see how this once comes out.

Overall, this was way easier than I expected. Only one additional step from an extract batch for what I hope will be much better beer. Time will tell in 2 weeks on how this comes out. If it's good, I see another one in my near future
Looks great! BM Centennial Blonde is a super recipe and it should come out really fine. What was the temp of your sample? Did you adjust based on the hydrometer's calibration temp? If not, here's a handy tool to get a more accurate reading. Ed
:mug:
 
You have plenty of room in that kettle, heavy grainnbill, a sparge, and a 4 1/2 gallon boil with topping up the fermenter could yield a 5 gallon batch.

People do it all the time :)
 
You will find that doing a smaller batch is harder to maintain temps then a larger batch. Larger volume of water = more thermal mass = more stability. When I started brewing 1 gallon brews, holding a mash temp was a PITA. Now doing 5 gallon, I can heat my strike water and hit my mash temp right on, and hold within a degree or two for an hour with my kettle wrapped in an old jacket.
 
Looks great! BM Centennial Blonde is a super recipe and it should come out really fine. What was the temp of your sample? Did you adjust based on the hydrometer's calibration temp? If not, here's a handy tool to get a more accurate reading. Ed
:mug:

I took the hydrometer reading at 75 degrees.

Ended up with just shy of 3 gallons which is what happened. I did have a higher burn off rate than what I had tested previously though.
 
As you know your strike water was way low temp ....

The recipe is a good one, but for a first timer I would have suggested a mid gravity, as opposed to a low gravity to provide more wiggle room on the low end of efficiency.

Anyways, this thread and your previous thread is a testament to hands on experience vs exhaustive planning and equipment choosing prior to trying all grain.....$10 worth of grain in exchange for priceless wisdom
Cheers
Wilser
 
This infusion calculator works quite well for getting the right strike temp.

http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/infusion.html

Congrats on a successful brewing day. Now that you think back on it, yes there were some difficulties but.....wasn't it fun and easier than you anticipated?

I too missed my expected OG on my first batch and by more than you did but mine was on the high side due to much better efficiency than expected. That was due to better grain milling. You can blame the grain miling for this and compensate by adding more grain (pretty cheap per batch) or getting your own mill so you have more control.

BTW, a mash out is not necessary so if you heated the mash for that, you didn't need to at all.
 
Well, for those of you who may still be interested in this thread, I do have an update. The beer stayed in the primary for 6 days before I moved it into a keg with a blowoff to do some secondary fermenting. There it stayed for about 9 days before I removed the blowoff and threw it into the kegerator. Took a pull from the handle about 16 days after I brewed the beer and the results were as follows:

1. Good color but not fully what I should have expected (about 2 or 3 SRM - photos to follow). But this is still a first for me.
2. The clarity was unbelievable, once again, this was a huge first for me
3. Aroma: Beer smelled great, the hop presence was there but not overwhelming at all which I was a little concerned with (overshot the hops a little but)
4. Taste: This is where it fell short. The beer tasted very much like a watered down bud light. This, I am guessing, is due to my lack of efficiency from the crush.
5. Mouthfeel: Certainly rougher than expected for a blonde ale but not terrible. This was something I kind of had a feeling was going to happen. I need to go back to the Bru'n water board on that one.

The most important thing I think is the fact that I missed my gravity, by a long shot. The final gravity of the beer ended up being 1.020 at 43 degrees. This, once again is something I somewhat attribute to the poor efficiency.

So overall looking back at this, here is what I got out of it

What I did right:
-I successfully made beer, not great beer, but I did it my first try with all grain
-It was a learning process, much easier than expected
-Only spent 18 dollars on ingredients, so I am not in the hole all that bad

Where I need to improve:
-Going to give the LHBS crush one more shot, this time run it through the mill 2x before investing in a mill for myself
-Increase my grain bill by 10% to try and make up for my lack in efficiency
-Do a deep dive on the water profile for the next beer
-Start with something more middle of the road (gravity wise)
-Purchase a better scale for hop additions/brewing salts
-Take much better notes, both to prepare for the brew day and during the brew day. Trying to keep track on the phone is difficult and my notes were pretty poor.
 
Good work!
Recently done my first BIAB. Bottled it today. Haven´t even tasted it and already looking at ingredients for the next batch.
 
great job and good ideas on next steps. Don't add extra grains just yet. The bulk of the missed numbers could be attributed to that grain sitting on the hot bottom of the kettle.

Get another thermometer as the probes hate water. Never trust a single thermometer and never take a single reading from one spot.

I recently switched to BeerSmith. I like BeerSmith - not only for the ability to create my kettle, efficiency and water profiles to plug into recipes, I really like the ability to print out a session sheet - step by step list of instructions with areas to write down key measurements as I go along. I can then plug those numbers and its back into the program and generate meaningful results.

Get a decent PH meter if you plan no deep diving into your water chemistry. PH strips are a waste and all the water chemistry and calculators are unreliable unless you take an accurate PH reading of your mash. Not only are they notoriously inaccurate, it seems insane to be dipping them into a brown liquid and then assessing the shade of the strip.
 
I really love all grain brewing. It's easy to brew good beer yet so much depth to explore for great beer. Little process improvements compound over time and you will frequently be drinking your best batch ever.

Defo recommend a 1.050 pale ale as a good beginner brew. These are fun to brew, are ready quickly, taste amazing, and are very forgiving of mistakes. As noted already there isn't much wiggle room with centennial blonde which is already at the lighter end of the scale.
 
4. Taste: This is where it fell short. The beer tasted very much like a watered down bud light. This, I am guessing, is due to my lack of efficiency from the crush.


The most important thing I think is the fact that I missed my gravity, by a long shot. The final gravity of the beer ended up being 1.020 at 43 degrees. This, once again is something I somewhat attribute to the poor efficiency.

Your original post said you missed your mash in temperature and then had temperature swings up to 167F. You need to get your mashing procedure figured out before you worry about any other factors.
Suggestions: Use the Green Bay Rackers web site to determine your strike temperature. I've been using it for years and I hit my mash temp. every time. Are all strike water calculators the same? I don't know, but the Rackers site has been reliable for me.
Heat up your kettle with the water to the strike temp and just let it sit there about 10 minutes or so. That way you can be sure the kettle is evenly heated and there aren't any cold spots, give the water a stir and check your temperature, You'll probably have to add heat. to bring it up.
Mash in and stir like crazy, take the temperature. If its low, by more than a few degrees, use the Rest Calculator on the Rackers web site to determine how much boiling water to add to bring it up. If its high, add some ice. This is a good reason not to start with all your water until you get the hang of hitting your mash temp. Have a small side pot of boiling or almost boiling water ready in case you need it.
When you are satisfied with your mash temp, cover it up, wrap it up and forget about it for an hour. No more stirring or taking the temperature, just let it sit, it will be fine.
I got tired of temperature swings and put my BIAB bag in a 5 gallon cooler from Walmart. Just add a spigot and you are mashing without the temperature swings.
 
This seems like quite an exciting journey. I too just got into BIAB a few days ago after doing quite a few batches of extract. I'm making a Belgium Blonde and love the color.
 
start small and then the bug bites you especially once you get confident... thennnnnnn its all aboard the crazy train.


So true.

I'm currently staring at 85lbs of 2R and 55lbs of red x. Can't wait for the weekend... then the next weekend, etc.

The bug has bit me hard.
 
Alright, so I would like to try this again, maybe with another recipe. I was thinking another 3 gallon batch with a middle of the road O.G.. I typically prefer my beers on the balanced to hoppy side and with american malts.

I have been poking through the recipe section on this site and have come across a couple of recipes that might be good such as EdWorts Pale Ale or Yoopers Haus Pale Ale but I was curious if anyone has any other good starting point recipe's before I do the deep dive with the water calcs and salt additions
 
Alright, so I would like to try this again, maybe with another recipe. I was thinking another 3 gallon batch with a middle of the road O.G.. I typically prefer my beers on the balanced to hoppy side and with american malts.

I have been poking through the recipe section on this site and have come across a couple of recipes that might be good such as EdWorts Pale Ale or Yoopers Haus Pale Ale but I was curious if anyone has any other good starting point recipe's before I do the deep dive with the water calcs and salt additions

I've brewed both of the recipes you mentioned and I prefer Yoopers. Have you tried the Centennial Blonde recipe yet? it's a pretty good one to start out with.

EDIT: See you have brewed the CB already. Try Biermunchers Nierra Sevada, its a clone of the SNPA. I don't find it's a close clone but it's still a good beer to brew.
 
So, I plan on attempting a second batch this weekend, something middle of the road. I had originally planned on going with either of the two I listed before (EdWorts Pale Ale or Yoopers Haus Pale Ale) but after reviewing both a couple of times I wanted something with a American Malts and citrusy hop flavors. I found the following recipe online and was considering maybe swapping the Cascade with Galaxy but I'm not 100% sure at this point.

The recipe is as follows for a 3 gallon batch:
OG: 1.056
FG: 1.010
ABV: 5.9%
IBU: 35
SRM: 8

5.5 lbs Pale Malt (2-Row)
0.5 lb Caramel 30L
0.5 lb White Wheat
0.25 lb Cara-Pils

0.25 oz Citra @ 60
0.25 oz Citra @ 15
0.25 oz Cascade @ 15
0.25 oz Citra @ Flameout
0.25 oz Cascade @ Flameout
0.5 oz Cascade Dry Hopped @ 7 Days
0.25 oz Citra Dry Hopped @ 7 Days

WLP001

Primary Ferment for 7 days before moving to a secondary and dry hopping for another 7 days.

I was planning on using distilled water for this providing me a baseline of 0 for all brewing salts (I don't have access to RO water and cannot seem to find any in my area. I may try a pet store next).

My Target Values are as follows:
Ca+2: 75 ppm
Mg+2: 5 ppm
SO4-2: 150 ppm
Na+: 10 ppm
Cl-: 50 ppm
HCO3-: 0 ppm

After the addition of 5 gram Gypsum, 1 gram calcium chloride, 1 gram epsom salt, and 1 gram canning salt the resulting adjustments are as follows:
Ca+2: 68 ppm
Mg+2: 5 ppm
SO4-2: 150 ppm
Na+: 19 ppm
Cl-: 51 ppm
HCO3-: 0 ppm

Does anyone see anything that I am missing here? Does the pale ale water profile and salt additions appear correct? Do I need to add any sort of citric acid to the water in addition to the salts found above during dough in? Please let me know, any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
How much water are you using in your mash and sparge, and to which component are you adding those salts? I can't quite get the additions to add up to the ppm values you listed. Also, the pH seems on the high side in all of my trials (a bit above 5.6).
 
So, I plan on attempting a second batch this weekend, something middle of the road. I had originally planned on going with either of the two I listed before (EdWorts Pale Ale or Yoopers Haus Pale Ale) but after reviewing both a couple of times I wanted something with a American Malts and citrusy hop flavors. I found the following recipe online and was considering maybe swapping the Cascade with Galaxy but I'm not 100% sure at this point.

The recipe is as follows for a 3 gallon batch:
OG: 1.056
FG: 1.010
ABV: 5.9%
IBU: 35
SRM: 8

5.5 lbs Pale Malt (2-Row)
0.5 lb Caramel 30L
0.5 lb White Wheat
0.25 lb Cara-Pils

0.25 oz Citra @ 60
0.25 oz Citra @ 15
0.25 oz Cascade @ 15
0.25 oz Citra @ Flameout
0.25 oz Cascade @ Flameout
0.5 oz Cascade Dry Hopped @ 7 Days
0.25 oz Citra Dry Hopped @ 7 Days

WLP001

Primary Ferment for 7 days before moving to a secondary and dry hopping for another 7 days.

I was planning on using distilled water for this providing me a baseline of 0 for all brewing salts (I don't have access to RO water and cannot seem to find any in my area. I may try a pet store next).

My Target Values are as follows:
Ca+2: 75 ppm
Mg+2: 5 ppm
SO4-2: 150 ppm
Na+: 10 ppm
Cl-: 50 ppm
HCO3-: 0 ppm

After the addition of 1 gram Gypsum, 1 gram calcium chloride, 1 gram epsom salt, and 1 gram canning salt the resulting adjustments are as follows:
Ca+2: 68 ppm
Mg+2: 5 ppm
SO4-2: 150 ppm
Na+: 19 ppm
Cl-: 51 ppm
HCO3-: 0 ppm

Does anyone see anything that I am missing here? Does the pale ale water profile and salt additions appear correct? Do I need to add any sort of citric acid to the water in addition to the salts found above during dough in? Please let me know, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Why move the beer to secondary when all you are doing is dry hopping? It isn't necessary and adds more work along with a chance of infection.
 
Great post!
I'm currently in the mindset of switch over to BIAB. It was very informative and nice to know it's not as big a deal as I once thought.
 
Great post!
I'm currently in the mindset of switch over to BIAB. It was very informative and nice to know it's not as big a deal as I once thought.

I'm a recent convert (5 batches deep) to BIAB full-volume mashes and all have been just as good, if not better than my best extract batches. Use good calculators for your mash temp and water volumes, insulate the mash-tun/kettle and off you go!.
 
How much water are you using in your mash and sparge, and to which component are you adding those salts? I can't quite get the additions to add up to the ppm values you listed. Also, the pH seems on the high side in all of my trials (a bit above 5.6).

For my 3 gallon batch, I was going to use 5.6 gallons to start. I was going to add the salts directly to the mash and had no plans to sparge at all. In the previous batch I started with a full volume boil and just dunked the bag to sparge then squeezed the bag as much as possible to try to get back up to my required pre boil volume.

I am an idiot, I meant to state 5 grams of gypsum. I will correct my post. To alter the pH though, I would need to add either citric or lactic acid, correct?
 
Thanks, that makes more sense. I see an estimated pH in the 5.5 range give or take a couple of hundredths. You can leave that as is, or bring it down about one tenth with lactic acid (to 5.4). Bru'n Water, Brewer's Friend, and MpH all seem to be pretty agreeable on this one (5.47-5.52 range).
 
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