DIY BIABasket Welds

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Troxs

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I'm looking at building a gas HERMS system utilizing the Tower of Power (I use natural gas and live in South Louisiana. Natural gas is cheaper than the electricity, and well, I just prefer natural gas burners over heating elements.) Anyway. I will be purchasing everything piece by piece, and the first step is to get the kettle/hellfire burner with natural gas conversion. From there I planned to do a BIAB setup until I can get a Ss MLT.

So, with that being said. I'm thinking that I would prefer to build a Stainless basket vs a custom bag. I realize the bags would be much cheaper, but I prefer stainless -- call me vain but looks mean a lot to me. Also, I'm not sure how I feel about putting heat to a cloth bag. I get that it shouldn't have any issue it just seems the stainless would be a better option.

My question is pertaining to the welds of this basket. Do they absolutely need to be Sanitary TIG welds? Could they be regular TIG welds, or could I use a MIG weld? I know the MIG wouldn't look as pretty as a Sanitary TIG, but it would drop the cost.

If Sanitary welds are 100% required, which vendor sells a nice eye appealing basket with sanitary baskets? I've looked at Arborfab.com, but not sure who else offers them custom designed.
 
Arborfab is the only basket maker that I'm aware of. Sanitary welds are not required in a mash tun.

If I were going to attempt to make my own basket, I would start with an inexpensive stainless kettle and convert the bottom to stainless mesh.

You could also start with a stainless perforated basket and line that with SS mesh. Perhaps a few well placed rivets could fasten the mesh....Idk I'm not a welder.

Silver solder is an option as well....

Fwiw, I would take another look at electric. Natural gas may be cheap where you are, but a lot is wasted to ambient compared to electric being very efficient at putting heat in the kettle. Even with the most expensive electric rates In the country, electric is typically cheaper than gas by a good margin.

Standing over a natural gas rig on a Louisiana summer afternoon could be HOT as hell.
 
I keep thinking about the eBIAB. There are quite a few things that would stop the e-system for me though. First: I will likely end the system as a HERMS (which I guess I could have an eHERMS and still use a tower of power as I'm not fund of looking to build my own controller). Second: I don't have a 240v outlet in my brew area which would mean having an electrician come in to run the line. My house is relatively new, and the area in which I brew would require tearing down sheet rock to run the line from my panel. Ultimately, I guess I could add a 240v straight from my panel, but then I'd have to open the panel and use one hell of an extension cord to plug her in.

I'm not saying that eBrewing is out of the question, but I'm also very hesitant on doing it mainly because of having the connection to do so.
 
I'm not saying that eBrewing is out of the question, but I'm also very hesitant on doing it mainly because of having the connection to do so.

You don't have to have 240v. I'm a 120v brewer, eBIAB, and can brew anything from 3 to 10 gallon batches on my system, no sparge. With a sparge I've even brewed a 13 gallon batch of Texas Brown.

Heating time from mash to boil for a typical 7.5 gallon boil is only about 10 minutes longer when comparing 2x1500 watts to 4500 watts. And that's really the only time difference in the brew day, seeing as how you can set it and forget it when heating up to strike temps.
 
You don't have to have 240v. I'm a 120v brewer, eBIAB, and can brew anything from 3 to 10 gallon batches on my system, no sparge. With a sparge I've even brewed a 13 gallon batch of Texas Brown.

Heating time from mash to boil for a typical 7.5 gallon boil is only about 10 minutes longer when comparing 2x1500 watts to 4500 watts. And that's really the only time difference in the brew day, seeing as how you can set it and forget it when heating up to strike temps.

I would have to look more into doing dual 120v elements, would both elements need to be on a separate controller and/or circuit?
 
I would have to look more into doing dual 120v elements, would both elements need to be on a separate controller and/or circuit?

Electric is great in many ways but there are advantages to gas as well.

Low voltage controller - You don't have to have heavy duty wiring in your control box to turn the gas valve on and off. I am not aware of an approach that would let you safely run two 120v elements on a single tower-of-power.

Cleaning - You don't have to clean the element, and you don't have to plan around the element when you're setting up the inside of your kettle. This sounds like a small thing, and in many ways it is, but cleaning a basic pot is fundamentally easier.
 
I would have to look more into doing dual 120v elements, would both elements need to be on a separate controller and/or circuit?

Yes, you'll need two separate circuits, but in modern homes that's usually not an issue. Run one directly to the outlet. The other can be run on the controller. This is exactly what I do for boiling. One is direct line to the outlet (through a switch), the other I set at 20% or so while boiling 7.5 gallons.

When heating to a boil I'll run both with the controller on manual at 100%.
 
I'm looking at building a gas HERMS system utilizing the Tower of Power (I use natural gas and live in South Louisiana. Natural gas is cheaper than the electricity, and well, I just prefer natural gas burners over heating elements.) Anyway. I will be purchasing everything piece by piece, and the first step is to get the kettle/hellfire burner with natural gas conversion. From there I planned to do a BIAB setup until I can get a Ss MLT.

So, with that being said. I'm thinking that I would prefer to build a Stainless basket vs a custom bag. I realize the bags would be much cheaper, but I prefer stainless -- call me vain but looks mean a lot to me. Also, I'm not sure how I feel about putting heat to a cloth bag. I get that it shouldn't have any issue it just seems the stainless would be a better option.

My question is pertaining to the welds of this basket. Do they absolutely need to be Sanitary TIG welds? Could they be regular TIG welds, or could I use a MIG weld? I know the MIG wouldn't look as pretty as a Sanitary TIG, but it would drop the cost.

If Sanitary welds are 100% required, which vendor sells a nice eye appealing basket with sanitary baskets? I've looked at Arborfab.com, but not sure who else offers them custom designed.

Maybe you just need to get the bag instead of the stainless and put the difference toward plastic surgery?:D

Perhaps you need to do a couple batches BIAB with just the bag. If you have a refractometer and a grain mill, mill the grains as fine as you can. Get your water to strike temp, dough in, and after about 5 minute give the mash a good stir and then check the gravity of the wort and compare it to the predicted OG, I think you will find that conversion has mostly completed by then and if the grains are milled fine it will be totally complete by 10 minutes. Check your temperature at 10 minutes and see if adding heat is necessary. I doubt that you will accomplish much with HERMS except spend money on equipment although it might impress your friends.

Note: I do not advocate doing a mash of less than 30 minutes regardless if you have reached your OG at 5. You will miss out on the flavors that require more time to extract.
 
Maybe you just need to get the bag instead of the stainless and put the difference toward plastic surgery?:D

Perhaps you need to do a couple batches BIAB with just the bag. If you have a refractometer and a grain mill, mill the grains as fine as you can. Get your water to strike temp, dough in, and after about 5 minute give the mash a good stir and then check the gravity of the wort and compare it to the predicted OG, I think you will find that conversion has mostly completed by then and if the grains are milled fine it will be totally complete by 10 minutes. Check your temperature at 10 minutes and see if adding heat is necessary. I doubt that you will accomplish much with HERMS except spend money on equipment although it might impress your friends.

Note: I do not advocate doing a mash of less than 30 minutes regardless if you have reached your OG at 5. You will miss out on the flavors that require more time to extract.

HAHA -- Initially I do plan to start with just a bag, and then later move to the SS basket, if I do at all. I'm beginning to venture into the eBIAB setups, but from what I can tell the initial cost is much higher simply because of needing a temperature controller for the element.

My initial first buy to get going for the gas setup was going to be
  • Ss 20gal Brew Kettle w/ thermometer
  • Hellfire Burner w/ Natural Gas conversion
  • biabbags Bag

I would like to have the bag away from the bottom of the kettle, but I also figure that with this setup I wouldn't be turning the flame on while mashing. And, yes, I do agree. I would hit strike and hold it for as long as I could, but wouldn't panic too much about the drop in temperature. Later on down the road however I'd like to incorporate a system to maintain temps and alter temps such as a HERMS or a 2-vessel system similar to the brew easy, but that requires an electric system with a controller or a tower of power for the gas system - either way the cost of those are in the $500 range and would have to wait.
 
Would two 1500w elements be enough to get 13-14gal to a boil?

It's plenty in my system. When I did the 12 gallon batch of Texas Brown I set the one attached to the controller to something like 70%. Two at 100% would be more than enough.

One thing I just thought about that might be a limiter with that Ranco controller. I doubt you can adjust the wattage output like you can with a PID with manual or something like an EZ Boil. I personally like to shoot for somewhere addressing 6-10% boil off, so the ability to manually adjust one element is important to me. Just something to think about if you're doing a smaller batch.

Edit: forgot to mention, the 12 gallon batch was into the fermenter. Started the boil with over 13 gallons.
 
It's plenty in my system. When I did the 12 gallon batch of Texas Brown I set the one attached to the controller to something like 70%. Two at 100% would be more than enough.

One thing I just thought about that might be a limiter with that Ranco controller. I doubt you can adjust the wattage output like you can with a PID with manual or something like an EZ Boil. I personally like to shoot for somewhere addressing 6-10% boil off, so the ability to manually adjust one element is important to me. Just something to think about if you're doing a smaller batch.

Edit: forgot to mention, the 12 gallon batch was into the fermenter. Started the boil with over 13 gallons.

This is going to sound really crazy, but what if I used a RIMS tube and Natural Gas? The RIMS could be a 1500w element to keep re-circ temps and do step mashes, but I'd boil with a gas burner?

My biggest thing is that I won't be able to spend $1000-$1500 outright on a rig. I really need a new system before I can brew again. I'm just completely confused at what to do now... I have so many ideas and systems being floated around in my head.
 
This is going to sound really crazy, but what if I used a RIMS tube and Natural Gas? The RIMS could be a 1500w element to keep re-circ temps and do step mashes, but I'd boil with a gas burner?

My biggest thing is that I won't be able to spend $1000-$1500 outright on a rig. I really need a new system before I can brew again. I'm just completely confused at what to do now... I have so many ideas and systems being floated around in my head.

You can totally do as you describe with the RIMS and NG. Just make sure to get some type of shielding for your connections so the boil doesn't melt them!

But also, here's my 2 pennies on where you're at. At some point you will have assimilated as much info as is feasible, and then you'll just need to make the best decision you can and pull the trigger. Identify your priorities as you're noodling on what you want and use those to guide your decision. Chances are you will not get your perfect, ideal system out of the gate. Most of us find tweaks and changes, even for the off-the-shelf systems, so that they're better suited for our needs.

My driving priority at the onset was to make good beer for the least amount of money and effort. That's why I was a no-chill stove top brewer for a while. However, things morph and evolve and this priority changed over time. Now I would say my priority is to make the BEST beer, but still for the least amount of money and effort.

I'll end this rambling with a pitch for the guy I got my system from. Steven @Brausupply. Right now he's running a big 20% off sale (use coupon code BlackFriday2016). You can get a complete eBIAB system for $739 x 0.8 = $591. No need to spend $1000-$1500. Link is below.

https://brausupply.com/collections/...oss-automated-brew-system?variant=19286933701
 
You can totally do as you describe with the RIMS and NG. Just make sure to get some type of shielding for your connections so the boil doesn't melt them!

But also, here's my 2 pennies on where you're at. At some point you will have assimilated as much info as is feasible, and then you'll just need to make the best decision you can and pull the trigger. Identify your priorities as you're noodling on what you want and use those to guide your decision. Chances are you will not get your perfect, ideal system out of the gate. Most of us find tweaks and changes, even for the off-the-shelf systems, so that they're better suited for our needs.

My driving priority at the onset was to make good beer for the least amount of money and effort. That's why I was a no-chill stove top brewer for a while. However, things morph and evolve and this priority changed over time. Now I would say my priority is to make the BEST beer, but still for the least amount of money and effort.

I'll end this rambling with a pitch for the guy I got my system from. Steven @Brausupply. Right now he's running a big 20% off sale (use coupon code BlackFriday2016). You can get a complete eBIAB system for $739 x 0.8 = $591. No need to spend $1000-$1500. Link is below.

https://brausupply.com/collections/...oss-automated-brew-system?variant=19286933701

Believe me, I'm noticing the troubles with selecting the right system and to make matters worse my OCD side also interferes with my decisions. I don't think that I'll stay a BIAB brewer, as I really would like to have the ability for step mashes, and testing the differences between sparge techniques - not that I think that even really matters. At the moment, honestly, I'm thinking about doing a 2-vessel System.

I figure having a dedicated Mash Tun would give me the ability to do Mashes without the worry of a bag, or buy an expensive SS basket, and I'd still be re-circulating with full mash volume. I would use the kettle to increase temperature manually, until I can afford a Tower of Power to ignite my burner and maintain temperatures automatically. While I truly like the idea of BIAB, I'm not a huge fan of the bag itself being in contact with heat to perform a step mash. (Call me crazy, because it is very likely that I am, but I feel stainless is more "sterile." That could also just be in my head, and I don't mean to take any credit away from BIAB methods because I do plan to start that way. It's just a personal preference.)

This preference along with the OCD need to have matching kettles makes the decision difficult because choosing the right kettle, which would be able to grow into the complete system I have dreamed in my head, is difficult for me. I get stuck between cost, appearance, quality, upgrade-ability. The Spike Kettles are likely in the winning for me, but (and this is really stupid, but once again an example of my OCD nature) I'd like to have my re-circulation valve on the side of the kettle with an elbow to fit the valve for the aesthetics. This has led me down a path of considering the G2 BoilerMaker instead, however, those would increase the overall cost as they are more expensive. The expense increase then led me to Ss Brewtech, but once again the standard re-circ port messes with my OCD nature and I would likely be annoyed looking at it (I know, it is a stupid reason), and finally I've considered Anvil as the price is lower than the others, but I'm not fund of their false bottom. It just seems to have a large amount of space wasted underneath being it sits above the drain tube. I'm sure this would not make much of a difference once I purchase my pump and begin doing 60-min re-circulating mashes, but until I get to that stage what effects would the extra space inherently add? All of this is hindered by the lack of reviews and videos to see these items in action as I would use them. This forum, and my post, along with a few on reddit, have been a way for me to ask questions in hopes that perhaps someone would make the decision for me to a certain degree.

I'm possibly simply suffering from information overload...

When I started brewing 5-6 years ago I was completely content with my 5gal coolers and 8 gallon basic pot, but now that I have a new home and after taking a year hiatus from brewing I realize it is really time to step up my game in order to brew some award quality brews.

EDIT: and to go with all that long text: I'm pretty certain that if I were to find a place that made custom SS baskets with sanitary welds and a professionally flawless appearance I'd likely stick just to BIAB...
 
Troxs,

Reading your post was almost like me going into a confessional... man... we suffer from the same issues. Information overload and scared to pull the trigger.

Thanks TexasWine for pointing out that we just need to do it, knowing that it probably will not be perfect right out of the shoot.....

Like I have heard said.. Dont over think the think, over DO the DO!

Baloo
 
Troxs,

Reading your post was almost like me going into a confessional... man... we suffer from the same issues. Information overload and scared to pull the trigger.

Thanks TexasWine for pointing out that we just need to do it, knowing that it probably will not be perfect right out of the shoot.....

Like I have heard said.. Dont over think the think, over DO the DO!

Baloo

I actually bit the bullet and purchased a Anvil 20gal Kettle and a Wilser bag. My family bought me a Hellfire with natural gas kit, so it looks like I'll be sticking with gas - and honestly I was probably going to go that route either way.

I may however build a RIMS tube and use it to heat water to pass through a CFC with my wort as a heat exchange. I haven't decided on that part yet though.

The Anvil isn't even in yet, so I'm first going to brew my first BIAB and see how I like it.
 

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