Ta4 snr mypin question

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farmskis

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Quick question. In looking at the diagram. 3 and 4 says ssr. 5 and 6 says ssr and al1. Which to hook to my ssr input? Is 3 and 4 always "on" and 5 and 6 on and off with the setpoint and what the pid is commanding based on the desired temp?
 
Also might I add... I currently am hooked to 3 and 4. In testing I noticed the element remaining on well beyond the set value. Set to 100 still heating at 130. Just trying to see if I have it hooked up wrong or if there is a step I am missing.
 
5 and 6 would seem to be for a buzzer/alarm. Mine is hooked up via 3 and 4. Have you calibrated your temp probe and autotuned the PID?
 
Mine are also hooked up to pin 3 and 4. 5 and 6 are definitely an extra relay for an alarm buzzer. The element continuing to fire past the set point us usually a bad PID tuning setting, the controller probably expects to lose heat faster than your system actually does
 
I did a little more troubleshooting this morning. It seems that 3 and 4 are correct. I think it is the cheap ssr I have. The light is coming on when the P I d commands but it is always allowing power through on the output end. Double checked with a meter and it shows continuity with all power off. Also I just tried out my boil ssr. It was working until I tried for any length of time to heat. Now it just remains on constant. I wonder if they were not labeled correctly. Says 40a but....
Now to find a good ssr from a good source. Any one know of any that will fit the heat sinks for my foteks. I would like to just swap them on the sinks vs replace the heat sinks.
 
I did a little more troubleshooting this morning. It seems that 3 and 4 are correct. I think it is the cheap ssr I have. The light is coming on when the P I d commands but it is always allowing power through on the output end. Double checked with a meter and it shows continuity with all power off. Also I just tried out my boil ssr. It was working until I tried for any length of time to heat. Now it just remains on constant. I wonder if they were not labeled correctly. Says 40a but....
Now to find a good ssr from a good source. Any one know of any that will fit the heat sinks for my foteks. I would like to just swap them on the sinks vs replace the heat sinks.

the ssr heatsinks are universal... the mager ones like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mager-SSR-2...140499?hash=item1ebcf43793:g:2i8AAOSwiDFYPnjf are the exact same ssrs as auber and ebrew both respectively relabel and resell as their own for more money...

heres a 40A one with grease and another heatsink for $15 if you want..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mager-40A-S...244314?hash=item5b2516545a:g:MWoAAOSwo0JWJzxJ
 
Thank you for the recommendation! I was able to pick up some from Auber.
I hope that it was the ssr vs improper heat sinks. The ssrs both failed with in a few minutes and I was able to touch them as they were warm but not hot.
I have the heat sinks that came with the ssr and they are mounted in my control panel. Now they are not in the open air or cooled with a fan but there was not much heat in the control box that I could feel. Would you think this is adequate cooling?
 
Thank you for the recommendation! I was able to pick up some from Auber.
I hope that it was the ssr vs improper heat sinks. The ssrs both failed with in a few minutes and I was able to touch them as they were warm but not hot.
I have the heat sinks that came with the ssr and they are mounted in my control panel. Now they are not in the open air or cooled with a fan but there was not much heat in the control box that I could feel. Would you think this is adequate cooling?
No, it is not adequate cooling. The heatsinks must be mounted external to the control enclosure, or have fan driven forced air, sourced and dumped outside the box, if they are mounted in the box. Otherwise, heat will build up in the box with extended operation. Your SSR's blew out before there was time for significant heat build up.

Brew on :mug:
 
No, it is not adequate cooling. The heatsinks must be mounted external to the control enclosure, or have fan driven forced air, sourced and dumped outside the box, if they are mounted in the box. Otherwise, heat will build up in the box with extended operation. Your SSR's blew out before there was time for significant heat build up.

Brew on :mug:

So you believe that it was faulty ssr because they failed before there was enough time to build up excessive heat. But in order to get adequate cooling for for longer durations I should either fan or mount externally. Thank you. I have a fan that I can throw in the box for a quick fix.
 
So you believe that it was faulty ssr because they failed before there was enough time to build up excessive heat. But in order to get adequate cooling for for longer durations I should either fan or mount externally. Thank you. I have a fan that I can throw in the box for a quick fix.

Just throwing a fan in a closed box won't be adequate for a plastic enclosure. It might be adequate for a metal enclosure, if it has a large enough surface area (i.e a big box.) Safer to have air inlets and outlets on the box with the fan pulling in the inlet or pushing out the outlet, and the heatsinks in the airflow stream.

Brew on :mug:
 
Just throwing a fan in a closed box won't be adequate for a plastic enclosure. It might be adequate for a metal enclosure, if it has a large enough surface area (i.e a big box.) Safer to have air inlets and outlets on the box with the fan pulling in the inlet or pushing out the outlet, and the heatsinks in the airflow stream.

Brew on :mug:

That is what I was planning on doing. the plan is to place a fan blowing air out on one side with an inlet hole on the opposite side with the heat sinks directly in-between the two.
 
I did a little more troubleshooting this morning. It seems that 3 and 4 are correct. I think it is the cheap ssr I have. The light is coming on when the P I d commands but it is always allowing power through on the output end. Double checked with a meter and it shows continuity with all power off. Also I just tried out my boil ssr. It was working until I tried for any length of time to heat. Now it just remains on constant. I wonder if they were not labeled correctly. Says 40a but....
Now to find a good ssr from a good source. Any one know of any that will fit the heat sinks for my foteks. I would like to just swap them on the sinks vs replace the heat sinks.

If your checking the ssr with a meter for voltage to see if they are truly off. You'll be fooled. It'll read voltage even when they're not on.


Edit: I placed my meter on both legs. One probe on the output of the ssr and the other probe to the unstwitched leg. That's when I was able to read that the ssr was actually turning off.
 
If your checking the ssr with a meter for voltage to see if they are truly off. You'll be fooled. It'll read voltage even when they're not on.


Edit: I placed my meter on both legs. One probe on the output of the ssr and the other probe to the unstwitched leg. That's when I was able to read that the ssr was actually turning off.

I actually just tested continuity. There were other indicators as well. The pid was lighting the out light correctly and with that is was also able to measure voltage on pins 3 and 4 that corresponded with the out light. I also could see the light on the ssr illuminating in correspondence with the pid out light. While all this was going on my light that is wired to illuminate when the ssr is closed to heat the element was illuminated. It was working for a short time. I'm starting with the ssr replace. Since the wiring was correct and the P I d seemed to be working correctly.
 
I actually just tested continuity. There were other indicators as well. The pid was lighting the out light correctly and with that is was also able to measure voltage on pins 3 and 4 that corresponded with the out light. I also could see the light on the ssr illuminating in correspondence with the pid out light. While all this was going on my light that is wired to illuminate when the ssr is closed to heat the element was illuminated. It was working for a short time. I'm starting with the ssr replace. Since the wiring was correct and the P I d seemed to be working correctly.

theres always voltage leaks with the foteks... you might get continuity but in normal operation its not enough to power the element when off. It may make your control panel light glow dim though. best thing to do is check the 24v or so of DC control voltage to the ssr... if thats coming on and off than suspect the ssr.
 
That is what I was planning on doing. the plan is to place a fan blowing air out on one side with an inlet hole on the opposite side with the heat sinks directly in-between the two.

if you look at my build thread below you will see this is exactly what I did with my plastic enclosure. been fine for over 3 years now.
 
theres always voltage leaks with the foteks... you might get continuity but in normal operation its not enough to power the element when off. It may make your control panel light glow dim though. best thing to do is check the 24v or so of DC control voltage to the ssr... if thats coming on and off than suspect the ssr.

The element continued to heat beyond the set temp with the pid set for 100. It was still warming at 130 with the out light extinguished on the pid. Also the indicator lamp on the ssr was extinguished and it was still heating away. I have some new ssr so I think I am going to see what happens with the new ones.
 
The element continued to heat beyond the set temp with the pid set for 100. It was still warming at 130 with the out light extinguished on the pid. Also the indicator lamp on the ssr was extinguished and it was still heating away. I have some new ssr so I think I am going to see what happens with the new ones.

Problems like yours are why I aways advocate for an "Element Firing Lamp" that detects when the SSR is actually on (conducting). This way you can tell if your SSR has failed (or latched) in the on condition, even if the control signal is telling the SSR to be off. Check out the example in the diagram below.

MyPin TD4 Pump Aux 240V.PNG

Note that there is a gotcha to the element firing lamp that occurs because even good SSR's have a leakage current of up to 2mA when off. This will deliver negligible power to the element (if it is plugged in), so no problem. However, if the element isn't plugged in, the leakage current is enough to light up some of the common LED lamps used for the element firing light. Thus you must ignore the element firing light being on if there is no element plugged in.

Brew on :mug:
 
Problems like yours are why I aways advocate for an "Element Firing Lamp" that detects when the SSR is actually on (conducting). This way you can tell if your SSR has failed (or latched) in the on condition, even if the control signal is telling the SSR to be off. Check out the example in the diagram below.

View attachment 380087

Note that there is a gotcha to the element firing lamp that occurs because even good SSR's have a leakage current of up to 2mA when off. This will deliver negligible power to the element (if it is plugged in), so no problem. However, if the element isn't plugged in, the leakage current is enough to light up some of the common LED lamps used for the element firing light. Thus you must ignore the element firing light being on if there is no element plugged in.

Brew on :mug:

I also highly recommend the firing lamp. This lamp really helped in determining the failed part. The Lamp remaining on (with the element plugged in) was my indicator that something was not right. Then I continued to monitor the temp and pay close attention to what the pid was doing. Although I have not 100% determined this was the cause I am certain I am starting with what I believe is the issue.
 
I also highly recommend the firing lamp. This lamp really helped in determining the failed part. The Lamp remaining on (with the element plugged in) was my indicator that something was not right. Then I continued to monitor the temp and pay close attention to what the pid was doing. Although I have not 100% determined this was the cause I am certain I am starting with what I believe is the issue.
Didn't realize you had the firing lamp. Not sure if it was mentioned earlier in the thread and I missed it, or if it was never mentioned. Hope I didn't insult you.

Brew on :mug:
 
Didn't realize you had the firing lamp. Not sure if it was mentioned earlier in the thread and I missed it, or if it was never mentioned. Hope I didn't insult you.

Brew on :mug:

Oh no! No insult at all! Just further information backing the use of a firing lamp. I'm not sure if it was mentioned or not and I wrote it lol. I will admit, I'm guilty of not reading an entire thread or two before commenting!
 
I actually just tested continuity. There were other indicators as well. The pid was lighting the out light correctly and with that is was also able to measure voltage on pins 3 and 4 that corresponded with the out light. I also could see the light on the ssr illuminating in correspondence with the pid out light. While all this was going on my light that is wired to illuminate when the ssr is closed to heat the element was illuminated. It was working for a short time. I'm starting with the ssr replace. Since the wiring was correct and the P I d seemed to be working correctly.


I wasn't able to read continuity through my ssr. That's why I tested with power running through it.
 
I haven't totally read this thread, but you may have run into a problem I had with a TA4-SNR PID. Maybe not. I found that the printed instructions I got were not the same as the label on the PID itself. They had the SSR polarity backwards on the instructions. I almost burned my SSR out until I realized this. You may want to double check. I went by the PID label and everything worked as it should have. Also did you run the PID through a learn cycle?
 
I haven't totally read this thread, but you may have run into a problem I had with a TA4-SNR PID. Maybe not. I found that the printed instructions I got were not the same as the label on the PID itself. They had the SSR polarity backwards on the instructions. I almost burned my SSR out until I realized this. You may want to double check. I went by the PID label and everything worked as it should have. Also did you run the PID through a learn cycle?

The good thing is that I did go by the label vs the printed instructions. Also the second ssr that failed was hooked up to a pwm that I built. So it seems that the ssr was the component in common that failed on both ends. Both worked for great with no load on them. Then as soon as I hooked up the heater elements that is when they failed.
 
I haven't totally read this thread, but you may have run into a problem I had with a TA4-SNR PID. Maybe not. I found that the printed instructions I got were not the same as the label on the PID itself. They had the SSR polarity backwards on the instructions. I almost burned my SSR out until I realized this. You may want to double check. I went by the PID label and everything worked as it should have. Also did you run the PID through a learn cycle?

I also had this issue. I didn't burn anything up. But I did have issue with it working first time out of the gate.
 
The good thing is that I did go by the label vs the printed instructions. Also the second ssr that failed was hooked up to a pwm that I built. So it seems that the ssr was the component in common that failed on both ends. Both worked for great with no load on them. Then as soon as I hooked up the heater elements that is when they failed.

That's odd to me.
 
I thought it was the TD4 label that was mislabeled and not the ta4 myself... I have a TA7 and the label was correct for that if I remember right but not my TD4's.
 
I thought it was the TD4 label that was mislabeled and not the ta4 myself... I have a TA7 and the label was correct for that if I remember right but not my TD4's.

I have a TD4 as well.
Every search I did for wiring brought up the ta4. I believe it's just one feature that differentiates them?
 
I have a TD4 as well.
Every search I did for wiring brought up the ta4. I believe it's just one feature that differentiates them?
I dont know if they are pinned out the same honestly because there are different versions on the TD4 (like SNR and SSR as well as RNR) for example I use the dual alarm model for my rims so is the temp goes out of what I set as a safezone and goes above of below thresholds I set an alarm goes off the srew posts are different for that one and I honestly dont remember how... and my larger sized TA7 is a lot different.


Manual pwm mode is the one thing that differentiates them which you only need for a decent steady controlled boil on a boil kettle. without it you have to set the ta4 above 212 degrees and boil at full power, otherwise the boil will start and stop continuously.
 

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