110V Single Vessel RIMS Build

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cegan09

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So I finally have enough parts in to start building my new brewstand and RIMS Setup. Previously I've just been using a BIAB propane setup. I'm currently in an apartment, and I live on the second floor. So I can't bring the propane up to my porch. And my stove isn't quite strong enough for 5 gallon batches. On top of that I have no fume hood in my kitchen (no idea why), so brewing inside makes the place feel like the jungle. My goal here is a setup I can put on the second story porch and brew there. This is what i've been putting together recently using CAD (is it obvious I'm an engineer?)

brew%20stand%201.png


Basic Stand, with a collapsible overhead arm for hoisting the bag and suspending it. RIMS mounted to the side, controller (which I might move to the back corner), and enough space underneath to stash my immersion chiller when not in use. Pump is one of the cheap 12V pumps. We'll see how it works to start.

Close up of the controller.
brew%20controller.png


Ignore the cutout not matching the outlets, I went with a different outlet that I didn't have a model for yet.
brew%20controller%202.png


Since this is 110V I'll have two circuits in. The kettle will have two elements in it for boiling. The keyed switch (not modeled) is a two pole switch that will control both circuits. The small lights under that switch indicate that the circuits are live. One illuminated switch for enabling each output, and a single pump illuminated switch. The two indicators at the bottom light up whenever the output is live.

Tonight I started working on the box. I covered the box in painters tape, then used a laser cutter to engrave the cutout markings. I couldn't drop the bed low enough to get the laser perfectly in focus for the bottom, but it works.

20161121_174205.jpg


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I threw a bunch of the parts in just to see what it looks like.
20161121_175338.jpg


And this kids, is why you always measure things before you cut things.....
20161121_175344.jpg


I'll cut that one off, and TIG on a new stud somewhere.



I need to cut the top open a little to make the SSRs fit.
20161121_175457.jpg


I found this heatsink for free, it should work. If I find I need more I'll cut up another and drop it in the center there.
20161121_175515.jpg


I will need to trim it down a little to get it to fit in the recess.
20161121_175522.jpg



That's where I am today. Tomorrow I plan on starting wiring, and mounting all the interior controller parts. I should have the controller 100% this week. Then I can turn my attention to the stand itself, which will be a fun day of cutting and welding. Last step will be to weld on some TC fittings to my kettle and mount the elements in there. Looking forward to using this setup.
 
Looking good! I am in the process of a very similar build, but I started at the other end. I have done one brew with propane and am going to upgrade to electric very soon. I am still conflicted about whether to go 120v or 240v. I am going to go with a raspberry pi controller using CraftBeerPi.
 
I've been slacking.

I have the controller 80% wired, and 10% cleaned up. Behold, the rat's nest.

20161127_135018.jpg


I have a few more wires to run, and then I can pull it all out and lay it back in wire by wire while also organizing and tidying.

Looks ok from the outside. Need to mount the other element outlet, and then secure them better (they're snap in panel mounts and they wiggle a lot). Also need to add the circuit power indicators, and the pump speed controller knob.

20161127_135003.jpg
 
theres really no need to organize it once its already wired... The point was to make it easier to wire really and to show off skills I guess... I supposed it might make it easier to replace a component later should one fail but the wires dont care how they bundled ... You should see the mess in my panel!

You Do want to make sure that the wires arent resting on hot areas of heatsinks and such though just to be extra careful.
 
Cleaning it up will make me feel better. I just have to work in steps. Step 1 is get all the wires made and test run. Step 2 is clean them up. Since I'm working with two separate circuits, I'd like to separate the bundles to the door into two to make sure I'm completely separate everywhere.
 
Looking good! I am in the process of a very similar build, but I started at the other end. I have done one brew with propane and am going to upgrade to electric very soon. I am still conflicted about whether to go 120v or 240v. I am going to go with a raspberry pi controller using CraftBeerPi.

I have been using propane and just started using electric. I decided to test the water with two 1500W 120V hot rod elements dropped into my existing 15gal kettle. I had to add some insulation around my kettle but I was able to bring about 8gals to a boil in a reasonable time and had about 1.2gal boil off. I heat up my mash and sparge water separately so 120V with two elements was about as fast as propane.
 
Since this is 110V I'll have two circuits in. The kettle will have two elements in it for boiling. The keyed switch (not modeled) is a two pole switch that will control both circuits. The small lights under that switch indicate that the circuits are live. One illuminated switch for enabling each output, and a single pump illuminated switch. The two indicators at the bottom light up whenever the output is live.

I am going to build a similar control box for two 120V inputs and like what you have built. I noticed your panel does not have a E-stop, curious if you have thought about adding one or are just going to use the main keyed switch?

I am thinking about adding a E-stop like one in this post https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1666641&postcount=28 but modified a bit to lock out the start if the elements are set to the on position to prevent dry firing.
 
Just because I am so excited I have got to show this off.

My 'THRIFTY RIMS"

Not as elaborate as yours for sure. But at $250 with controller and element I am fairly pleased with it.

What element are you going to be running? I like the one we chose for our build for simplicity sake, but if I could change 1 thing I would change the non standard threads for this element.


Cheers
Jay

ThriftyRIMS4.jpg
 
I am going to build a similar control box for two 120V inputs and like what you have built. I noticed your panel does not have a E-stop, curious if you have thought about adding one or are just going to use the main keyed switch?

I am thinking about adding a E-stop like one in this post https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=1666641&postcount=28 but modified a bit to lock out the start if the elements are set to the on position to prevent dry firing.


I thought about an estop, but the key'd switch does the same thing. I could always go and add one though. I'd just wire it in series with the key'd switch.

Just because I am so excited I have got to show this off.

My 'THRIFTY RIMS"

Not as elaborate as yours for sure. But at $250 with controller and element I am fairly pleased with it.

What element are you going to be running? I like the one we chose for our build for simplicity sake, but if I could change 1 thing I would change the non standard threads for this element.


Cheers
Jay

I grabbed one from brew hardware since I'm using their RIMS tube.

1500W 120V long element
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element1500_long.htm

18" RIMS Tube
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/rims18_cam.htm
 
Fired up the RIMS tube for the first time tonight. Everything seems to work well. Takes some time to get tap water up to mash temp, but that should be improved when I get the kettle elements installed and can use one to help bring water to strike temp.

I did notice that the thermometer in the kettle was reading about 2 degrees under the RIMS temp, which makes sense. However when the probe in the RIMS gets close to the target temp the EZboil starts modulating the heating element and it takes a long long time to get the last two degrees in the kettle. So I'll either add an offset to the probe reading, or just aim it a couple degrees higher than actual target.

There's also a problem with the power supply I got for the pump, so I need to pull that and diagnose. But it works great hack wired to a spare 12V supply I had.

20161218_170409.jpg
 
Fired up the RIMS tube for the first time tonight. Everything seems to work well. Takes some time to get tap water up to mash temp, but that should be improved when I get the kettle elements installed and can use one to help bring water to strike temp.

I did notice that the thermometer in the kettle was reading about 2 degrees under the RIMS temp, which makes sense. However when the probe in the RIMS gets close to the target temp the EZboil starts modulating the heating element and it takes a long long time to get the last two degrees in the kettle. So I'll either add an offset to the probe reading, or just aim it a couple degrees higher than actual target.

There's also a problem with the power supply I got for the pump, so I need to pull that and diagnose. But it works great hack wired to a spare 12V supply I had.
you can adjust the ezboil so it doesnt modulate of so it does it closer to target temp. keep in mind the temp will come up at a different rate with the grain in the mix and restriction on the pump too.
 
you can adjust the ezboil so it doesnt modulate of so it does it closer to target temp. keep in mind the temp will come up at a different rate with the grain in the mix and restriction on the pump too.

Yea I figured it would be different once it's loaded with grain. But it's good to know that everything is working. I'll dig into the settings for the ezboil.
 
you can adjust the ezboil so it doesnt modulate of so it does it closer to target temp. keep in mind the temp will come up at a different rate with the grain in the mix and restriction on the pump too.

I am thinking getting a RIMS tube, how much more time does running with grain add compared to running just water? Guess it might be system dependent but wonder if you can use the plain water increase rate to judge it's performance in real use.
 
Thanks Augie, sort of thought it would be hard to answer, but from looking through your build thread it looks like you tried a lot of different elements so I thought i would ask.
 
Well yeah a bigger element or longer contact time between the wort and the element will increase the efficiency of the rims.. I think most folks forget about the the latter and just go for bigger power elements with pumps that are really pushing the wort through the rims so quickly that there really is a lot of wasted potential... That's why I figured I'd go for more efficiency... Lower flow speed and longer rims with less dead space inside. I would say from the testing I did that it works very well. Honestly though oven the first short 800w rims I made was able to maintain my mash temps... It also was quick to scorch 10 gallons of brown ale on me when some buildup at the end where there was little flow scorched on me... The rest of my configurations worked well but I was aiming for faster ramp times for step mashing which I really don't use much really.
 
I am thinking getting a RIMS tube, how much more time does running with grain add compared to running just water? Guess it might be system dependent but wonder if you can use the plain water increase rate to judge it's performance in real use.

So time difference should be zero. You aren't heating to strike temp with the grains in the system, you're just heating water. So water is a good test. Once you're at temp it should hold just fine.
 
So time difference should be zero. You aren't heating to strike temp with the grains in the system, you're just heating water. So water is a good test. Once you're at temp it should hold just fine.
I was thinking about in a step mash situation or for a mashout, would there be a difference then or does that still track like plain water?

In the pic from Jaybird there are notes in his pic and looks it took 15min to change 10 degress in the beginning for 8gal of water, was you faster or slower?

You said it took a while to get to temperature in your test, how much water did you heat up and how how long did it take?

I had two 1500W elements in 5gal of water and I think it took about 40 or 45min to go from 60F to 170F, with no recirculation just an occasional stir. I did a 8gal test with water but I lost the paper I had notes on.
 
I haven't run with grains yet, just water. But again it's 100% dependent on your system. It's going to depend on your element, if you're on 110 or 220, how much water, flow rates, etc.

Since i'm on 110V it will be slower. But augiedoggy is right, if you slow the flow rate so the water/wort has more contact time with the element it will heat faster.
 
Slow moving. Soldered on the TC fittings to the kettle today. Still need to go back and clean up the excess solder and polish some things out. Next time I'll just suck it up and weld. In fact it will probably annoy me enough soon that i'll just go buy some weld on fittings and replace the solder ones.

Elements are mounted in their hotpods and I gave each a slight bend to clear each other. I wanted two of the shorter elements, but brew hardware was out close to the holidays, so I have a long and a short. 3000W of kettle heating. Tomorrow I'll do a water only test raising to strike temp, then bringing to a boil.

Monday I'm planning on buying steel to start the actual stand.

Last items to do:
- Build the stand
- put together the return piping for mash (crazy design in my head)
-Attach the whirlpool arm to my immersion chiller so it's all one assembly
- Buy one more temp sensor for the kettle (and maybe weld on another port so I can retain the dial gauge)
- Design some sort of dip tube that won't be likely to suck up the bag (probably just add some screen)

20161231_155807.jpg
 
Running my first water only test today. Filled with 7.5 gallons of 47deg water (ground water is cold this time of year) and set it to reach strike with the RIMs and a single kettle element firing. Took 50 minutes to climb from 47 to 160. I think that will go down a lot once I wrap the kettle in reflectix and actually remember to leave the lid on.

Plugged both elements in and let it heat to boil. Took 40 minutes and hit 209 on the temp sensor, but had a gentle boil in the center. Again I need to insulate the kettle and I think I'll have a nice rolling boil. My hand held thermometer was saying 211 neat the top around the edges, so I might need to go calibrate that temp sensor.

Stand being built this week, and then I think i'll try to brew this weekend.
 
Finally making more progress. Was on travel for a while which didn't help. Bought a bunch of square tube and started on the stand today.

First, spend a lot of time with the horizontal bandsaw.
20170203_113742.jpg



Tack the frame together. Be sure to use clamps and squares to keep it all level.
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Boom, tacked together stand.
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Then decide that what you really need to do is use this as an excuse to practice TIG, so sit for a long while running TIG beads. managed to dip the tungsten several time.
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Admire your mediocre welds.
20170203_135507.jpg


Plasma cut some caps to fill the tube ends. Tack in place.
20170203_143645.jpg


Finish welding around the full joint.
20170203_145534.jpg


Grind the top surface smooth so the kettle doesn't rock on all the welds.
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Still need to build the pulley arm for removing the bag, and decide where the controller will mount. I think in a week I can make beer again.
 
well I wrapped the kettle and RIMS tube both in a layer of reflectix and fired it up again last night to use the system as a sous vide cooker. I'd say rise time is at least 1/3 less. Started with warmer water this time, it was about 85° tap water. Got to 160 in about 20 minutes (I wasn't really timing since I was prepping food while it came up. Got to temp before I was done).

It held temp really well, I'm quite happy. If I can fab up the last bits that I need this week I'll be brewing this weekend.
 
Well, I think I'm finally ready to use this thing.

The other night I made the dip tube. What better way to cut tubes at a 45degree angle than with sketchy holding and a bridgeport.
20170209_172650.jpg


Welding stainless is fun. I sat and practiced on a few pieces the other night. I'm no pro, but it doesn't look terrible.
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I was doing ok welding the pieces together until I blew this hole in them.
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I finally arrived at this dip tube and shield setup.
20170212_122654.jpg


20170212_122705.jpg


Got the last of the pieces for the stand built. Later today I'm going to fire it up and make myself a Porter.
20170212_120036.jpg
 
Slow moving. Soldered on the TC fittings to the kettle today. Still need to go back and clean up the excess solder and polish some things out. Next time I'll just suck it up and weld. In fact it will probably annoy me enough soon that i'll just go buy some weld on fittings and replace the solder ones.

Elements are mounted in their hotpods and I gave each a slight bend to clear each other. I wanted two of the shorter elements, but brew hardware was out close to the holidays, so I have a long and a short. 3000W of kettle heating. Tomorrow I'll do a water only test raising to strike temp, then bringing to a boil.

Monday I'm planning on buying steel to start the actual stand.

Last items to do:
- Build the stand
- put together the return piping for mash (crazy design in my head)
-Attach the whirlpool arm to my immersion chiller so it's all one assembly
- Buy one more temp sensor for the kettle (and maybe weld on another port so I can retain the dial gauge)
- Design some sort of dip tube that won't be likely to suck up the bag (probably just add some screen)

I dont think you want the shorter elements.. longer the better, lower watt density and less likely to cause scorching with bigger beers.
 
Well, New systems works like a champ. Mash efficiency went from 70% on my old propane basic setup to 84% on this one.

Need to figure out my new boil off numbers though. Didn't adjust it quite right. The system does achieve a boil, but it's a low boil. I think a second layer of wrapping on the kettle might help.
 
Couple pictures from last night.

Mash water coming up to temp
20170212_171119.jpg


Grains added, mash starting
20170212_181016.jpg


Almost at boil, hot break starting. Before I added some anti-foam.
20170212_195116.jpg



Ended up with 6 gallons in the fermenter, and it looked to be starting to take off this morning.
 
Well, since photobucket decided to up and destroy forums the internet over, and because i can't edit posts that old anymore, going to upload all my photos again here.

This post contains the original CAD models and my initial controller box layout
brew stand 1.PNGbrew controller.PNGbrew controller 2.PNG20161121_174205 (1).JPG20161121_174210 (1).JPG 20161121_175338 (1).JPG 20161121_175344 (1).JPG 20161121_175457 (1).JPG 20161121_175515 (1).JPG 20161121_175522 (1).JPG
 
The short ones are still low watt density, so no worries there. Difference is like an inch or two.
There is like 30% difference in WPI (watts per inch) between just the shorter and 2.5" longer 1500w element. I' know either works but all im saying is if presented with either the longer will have less chance of scorching in the right conditions.
 
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There is like 30% difference in WPI (watts per inch) between just the shorter and 2.5" longer 1500w element. I' know either works but all im saying is if presented with either the longer will have less chance of scorching in the right conditions.

Shrug. I have over half a dozen brews with this configuration at this point and have never seen any evidence that I had a scorching issue, even with some very high gravity beers.

If the longer one had been in stock at the time I would have bought two of those, but there was only one so I went with it. No regrets so far.

Edit: reading back my intention was to buy two short ones, not long ones. With what I've seen so far I think I'd stand by that decision as well. The shorter ones would work fine with no scorch risks. Largest beer I've done so far was over 1.1 OG and it barely had any more build up on the elements than any other beer I've done.
 
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