Freeze concentration using a rope for better/quicker thaw retention?

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BILTIT

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Not sure if this is the best forum for this question but its where i reside the most so why not?

I currently make applejack (from applewine mostly) by filling 2l plastic pop bottles, freeze in freezer and thaw upside down into a cup or jar. I notice the centre seems to hold the majority of the liquid. Figure if you put a rope in during freezing, the liquid in the centre would have a quicker path to exit (via rope) vs slowly filtering through the ice in a long timely manner.

Anyone do this or know more about it?
 
your problem is that you have to have the rope thaw. The thawing goes from outside (where the heat is) to inside. So the rope area remains frozen providing no path. Unless you somehow could remove the rope.. A different solution if you could get it to work would be to put some form of straw in the middle with trapped air. Then you could have it come out that air gap. Another option is to be destructive on your 2l plastic pop bottles. If you cut them off, you could place the ice in a strainer and do that.
 
I use this procedure to make concentrates such as watermelon concentrate to pitch into Gose beers.

The flavonoids in a concentrate don't freeze as quickly or as thoroughly as ice crystals. Thusly, your flavor essence drips out first while thawing. In looking at your idea, I'm not sure the rope trick would be beneficial, but I'd be willing to try it if you find success with it. I've not noted the flavonoids congregating in one central area, conversely, I think they are more interspersed evenly.

I'd like to hear more if you experiment.
 
I have a batch that will be getting frozen in the next few days, i will try the rope trick in one of the bottles.

I may even try soaking a rope in alcohol to prevent it from freezing, not sure if it will work but worth a try.
 
I have a batch that will be getting frozen in the next few days, i will try the rope trick in one of the bottles.

I may even try soaking a rope in alcohol to prevent it from freezing, not sure if it will work but worth a try.

Good plan. Please post back once you try this method and I'll try it if you find it successful.
 
I tried a small diameter rope (5/16" i think), did not notice any difference compared to none rope thaw times. I think a lager rope is worth a try though (1/2" maybe?). I will try and find some for my next freeze.
 
I tried a small diameter rope (5/16" i think), did not notice any difference compared to none rope thaw times. I think a lager rope is worth a try though (1/2" maybe?). I will try and find some for my next freeze.

You might get some results if you put a copper pipe in the middle with small 1/16th holes drilled into it.
 
The inside should be the last part to freeze, however if you use a pipe it most likely will allow the center to freeze as fast as the outside if not faster.

I play with this from time to time making apple ice wine. I found that using a gallon milk jug worked the best. I would only fill them about 3/4 full and only freeze them for about 12 hours. This left me with slush and not a solid mass. The rest of my process was the same. You can also do it a second time if wanted, but I found I ended up losing way to much flavor for my liking.

The other issue with trying to do it too much is the fact that when you concentrate the alcohols, you are going to concentrate all the heads too. This will cause major hangovers if you drink too much of it.
 
Are you freezing apple juice, thawing some and fermenting the high gravity runoff? If so, that's an Ice Cider and not an Applejack.
I would be concerned about the rope being adequately sterilized and becoming a source of infection.
I make Ice Cider every fall-the best way to let it thaw slowly to maximize the amount of sugars that you can collect before the runoff becomes too dilute.
 
I may try that but with a stainless pipe.

Brwmistr's suggestion to use copper might work better. Copper is a much better conductor of heat than stainless steel. If you attach or hold a hot implement to it, the heat wil readily travel down the tube and eventually melt a core in the concentrate, allowing you to pull it right out, like an apple core. Wouldn't even need to drill all those holes.

Stainless would work too, but would require more heat and time. And it's harder, so drilling holes would take considerably more energy.
 
If you want to do the stainless pipe, there's a bunch of stainless steel thermowells out there for fermenters. I could see putting one of those in, pouring some hot water inside after freezing, and letting that thaw enough to slide the thermowell out and begin melting in the center. Then you can reinsert a rope into the melting center to pull out the liquid.
 
I make Apple Jack from my own apples and I make Freezer Jack Rum. I use 2 litre pop bottles for the freeze and one litre wine carafs for the drain. The bottles will stand upside down in them really well and the melt can be controlled. The first jack for Apple Jack is time consuming because 10% apple cider freezes solid. Second jack you are dealing with a slushier mix. The rum is brewed at 18 to 20 % in the first place so the first freeze is slushy from the get go. There is no need to use any more than that because while there is a concentration at the centre there is also alcohol throughout. Doing a 50% melt will get you all the alcohol. A freezer can only jack to about 38% but if you live in a really cold climate like me in South Scatch then a minus 40 night will jack that 38% stuff to 65% and still leave all the flavour. That is Shine without the Crime.

The inside should be the last part to freeze, however if you use a pipe it most likely will allow the center to freeze as fast as the outside if not faster.

I play with this from time to time making apple ice wine. I found that using a gallon milk jug worked the best. I would only fill them about 3/4 full and only freeze them for about 12 hours. This left me with slush and not a solid mass. The rest of my process was the same. You can also do it a second time if wanted, but I found I ended up losing way to much flavor for my liking.

The other issue with trying to do it too much is the fact that when you concentrate the alcohols, you are going to concentrate all the heads too. This will cause major hangovers if you drink too much of it.
 
Ya this is why i start with a wine (15-18%), makes the first jack much easier than when i have started with lower % ciders. My freezer does -23C but we are -30C outside right now, wish i had some ready to jack!!

I suppose i could "jack my jack" lol but its pretty good the way it is! I may put a liter or so of it out tonight anyways just to try it.
 
Interesting topic. Could anyone post their base Applewine recipe or whatever recipe they start with before freeze concentrating? Many thanks
 
I use pappys pub cider, you can find it in the cider recipes section.

I have found i do prefer some brown sugar in my applejack though. Just havent figured out the ratio of white/brown yet.
 
I use a Juice Extractor to do my apples and the gravity says 8% on the juice I get from my tree. My tree is similar to Gala but I don't think that is what they are. I then take and sparge the pulp with water and add that back in. That lowers the gravity so then I heat it all to 170 to kill the wild yeast and add sugar to bring it up to 10%. Chill it and pitch the yeast. I use Turbo Yeast but you can make your own choice there. When it is done I run it off and rack it with isingglass or Knox Gelatin to help it clear. It is still smoky but I then filter it. I keep some as plain cider at the 10% but a lot is Freezer Jacked to 20. What I jack a second time to 38% is wicked stuff and I need to mix it with Ginger Ale. Pretty good that way. I am planning a small batch with outside temp and I will see what that comes in with.

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Interesting topic. Could anyone post their base Applewine recipe or whatever recipe they start with before freeze concentrating? Many thanks
 
Generally speaking the higher the ABV before jacking the easier it is to freeze concentrate but the more likely there will be off-flavors made. Something like EC-1118 will chew right through a 16-18% ABV must, but the alcohol coming off usually tastes hot and needs quite a bit of aging to calm down. I have made 18% ABV apple wine before and it makes a good base for applejack, but IMHO, if you don't add some kind of sugar to the bottle before adding the applejack--whether it be white sugar, brown sugar or FAJC, at the end of a years' aging it will not be as smooth and silky as it could be otherwise.
 
I'd post a link to the thread on here if i still had it but........
A normal home freezer will only get you so high of an ABV %
Reducing to half the liquid does NOT = twice the ABV unfortunately.
Some alcohol remains trapped in the ice each time.
There is a chart SOMEWHERE on HBT that shows just how high of an ABV each temperature (consecutively colder) will yield you.
Even starting with my recipe that's usually finished around 18-20ish % will only jack to (in one jacking) around 25-30% ( i'm thinking it's closer to the low end according to that chart )
You can do multiple passes to get a higher ABV but it HAS to be colder each time to reach higher ABV % numbers.

Perhaps one of you avid searchers can find said chart.
 
I remember seeing the chart, 40% freezes at -24C. My freezer gets to -23C so i assume i get to 30-35% after 3 freeze/thaw cycles and starting from 15-18%.
 
I use the Great Outdoors of a Canadian Winter for my final freeze. The first two are done in the home freezer.
 
Bet you could use dry ice to get it done. It'll go to -80c.

It will not. At about 60 ABV Alcohol matastisizes with water and while the Dry Ice will freeze it the alcohol will not separate from the water when you thaw it.
 
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