Belgian Dubbel with Tettnang

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Le0

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Heya, I'd like to brew a Dubbel for this christmas and after looking around I have the following recipe. Anyone ever brewed a Dubbel and would like to tell me if everything is fine in this recipe?
I'm thinking about making the candi sugar myself, is it an improvement over just buying it?

Boil Size: 23.33 l
Post Boil Volume: 20.83 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 19.00 l
Bottling Volume: 18.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 45.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 22.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 68.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 1 81.3 %
0.30 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 2 4.9 %
0.20 kg Special B Malt (Weyermann Special W) (32 Grain 3 3.3 %
0.15 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 4 2.4 %
0.10 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.5 EBC) Grain 5 1.6 %
0.40 kg Candi Sugar, Amber (147.8 EBC) Sugar 6 6.5 %
30.00 g Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 15.9 IBUs
20.00 g Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 8 6.4 IBUs
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 -


Mash Schedule: 04 BIAB Medium/Full Body (Mash 68)
Total Grain Weight: 6.15 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 17.25 l of water at 73.8 C 68.0 C 60 min
 
Looks good. Maybe swap the amounts of caramunich and special B. You can do the sugar yourself. The flavor may be the same or different from bought. No way to tell until you try it.
 
I recommend trying to make your own. I've been reading though this excellent thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=114837

A tip based on my experience from making 2 batches: reheating to 240F(soft ball) caused my syrup to crystallize. Adding a smaller amount of water and just raising it to a boil rather than back to 240F solved the problem. Fun experiment and very tasty stuff!
 
The syrup from the thread rhys333 posted is excellent - I've used it many times. I don't think that it's an improvement over bought stuff (no worse either, just different), but a lot cheaper.

On your recipe - it looks really good, nicely balanced, but I'm not sure the munich (at 2.4%) is going to have any influence on the produce. Maybe either increase it (if you want a strong, bread crust like maltiness) or remove it. I think I remember reading that munich type malts aren't often used in Belgium (I could be wrong), but then the spirit of Belgian brewing is to forget style and brew what you think will taste good! Also, the mash temperature is quite high. The homemade syrups above don't ferment completely, so a high temp mash will leave you with a quite high FG. Again though, it's up to you to decide what you want the product to be like. The last (and very important) thing......which yeast and what is your ferment schedule? It affects Belgian beers as much as the ingredients do!
 
The homemade syrups above don't ferment completely, so a high temp mash will leave you with a quite high FG.

What's the fermentability of the homemade syrup in your experience Gnomebrewer? I'm planning to add 8-10% to a saison this weekend, but I have no idea where its going to finish up.
 
What's the fermentability of the homemade syrup in your experience Gnomebrewer? I'm planning to add 8-10% to a saison this weekend, but I have no idea where its going to finish up.

Based on my limited use (about 10 batches with homemade syrups), I find the darker syrups are about as fermentable as malt extract. Darker syrup = less fermentable. The pale syrups are probably closer to sugar in fermentability.

EDIT: I just checked the notes I kept for two batches made using pale homemade syrup - the FG of both batches suggest that the pale syrup is also probably about as fermentable as extract (not as fermentable as sugar).
 
Based on my limited use (about 10 batches with homemade syrups), I find the darker syrups are about as fermentable as malt extract. Darker syrup = less fermentable. The pale syrups are probably closer to sugar in fermentability.

EDIT: I just checked the notes I kept for two batches made using pale homemade syrup - the FG of both batches suggest that the pale syrup is also probably about as fermentable as extract (not as fermentable as sugar).

Awesome, thanks. :mug:
 
The syrup from the thread rhys333 posted is excellent - I've used it many times. I don't think that it's an improvement over bought stuff (no worse either, just different), but a lot cheaper.

On your recipe - it looks really good, nicely balanced, but I'm not sure the munich (at 2.4%) is going to have any influence on the produce. Maybe either increase it (if you want a strong, bread crust like maltiness) or remove it. I think I remember reading that munich type malts aren't often used in Belgium (I could be wrong), but then the spirit of Belgian brewing is to forget style and brew what you think will taste good! Also, the mash temperature is quite high. The homemade syrups above don't ferment completely, so a high temp mash will leave you with a quite high FG. Again though, it's up to you to decide what you want the product to be like. The last (and very important) thing......which yeast and what is your ferment schedule? It affects Belgian beers as much as the ingredients do!

Thanks for the post.
I initially added the Munich because it was lying around, but you are right that in this amount it will probably not add much so I removed it.
I'm planning on fermenting with WY3787, I want to ferment in primary for about 10 days then bottle condition. However I never used this yeast, do you think that it will be fine?
I also lowered the mash temperature to 66°C (152°F), would you lower it even further?

Anyways thanks a lot for the inputs guys, it will be my fifth brew so I take all the advice I can :)
Here is the updated recipe.

Boil Size: 23.33 l
Post Boil Volume: 20.83 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 19.00 l
Bottling Volume: 18.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.066 SG
Estimated Color: 45.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 22.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 68.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 1 83.3 %
0.30 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 2 5.0 %
0.20 kg Special B Malt (Weyermann Special W) (32 Grain 3 3.3 %
0.10 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.5 EBC) Grain 4 1.7 %
0.40 kg Candi Sugar, Amber (147.8 EBC) Sugar 5 6.7 %
30.00 g Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 16.1 IBUs
20.00 g Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 6.5 IBUs
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 8 -
2.0 pkg Trappist High Gravity (Wyeast Labs #3787 Yeast 9 -


Mash Schedule: 02 BIAB Light/Medium Body (Mash 66)
Total Grain Weight: 6.00 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 16.80 l of water at 71.5 C 66.0 C 60 min
 
I'm planning on fermenting with WY3787, I want to ferment in primary for about 10 days then bottle condition. However I never used this yeast, do you think that it will be fine?

I would be hesitant to bottle that early using 3787. It is notorious for starting out fast and slowing down. It can take a long time to reach FG. Look up threads on this yeast.

The only near bottle bombs I have ever had were using this yeast. I thought it was done and bottled the brew.

I would suggest giving it plenty of time to finish. A dubbel is best with some age, so giving it more time in the fermenter is safr than bottling early.

Pitch a good healthy starter, Aerate well. Controll the temp for the first few days and then slowly bring the temp up to help the yeast finish.
 
I would be hesitant to bottle that early using 3787. It is notorious for starting out fast and slowing down. It can take a long time to reach FG. Look up threads on this yeast.

The only near bottle bombs I have ever had were using this yeast. I thought it was done and bottled the brew.

I would suggest giving it plenty of time to finish. A dubbel is best with some age, so giving it more time in the fermenter is safr than bottling early.

Pitch a good healthy starter, Aerate well. Controll the temp for the first few days and then slowly bring the temp up to help the yeast finish.

Would you say 15 days would be enough then or would you wait longer?
I'm planning to take several gravity readings close to bottling date to verify fermentation is finished.
 
Heya, I'd like to brew a Dubbel for this christmas and after looking around I have the following recipe. Anyone ever brewed a Dubbel and would like to tell me if everything is fine in this recipe?
I'm thinking about making the candi sugar myself, is it an improvement over just buying it?

HI,
The only thing I would change (don't mind the wall of text below) is your hops. I would add some hops (about 10 grams) at 5-10 minutes left in the boil. This won't increase the IBU a lot but it will give the beer a hoppy flavor.
Also be careful that if you make your own candi sugar you don't burn any of the sugar. It will give a incredibly foul taste to the beer.
Oh and consider adding some bitter orange zest (10g dried) it gives the slightest hint of fruitiness, almost unnoticeable, but it's nice.
I like the fact that this recipe doesn't start adding random spices, you'll be able to taste all the wonderful malts and hops.

What I think about infusion mashing:

Personally i would step mash this beer. I'm one of those guys that starts mashing at 52C then 62C and then at 72C.
Why? Cause i believe that when you use a infusion mash you have limited methods of giving your beer a distinct flavor. If you like a dryer beers you just keep them at 63C for a bit longer if you like sweeter beers just go straight to 72C.
I think that for a Belgian dubbel you have to get a medium-full body and to achieve this you would have to start mashing at 62C for 15-20 minutes before going to 68C for a 20 minutes and ending at 72C for about 45 minutes, sparge, and a mash out at 78C for a minute, or something like this. You can't achieve this using a infusion mash because you are making fermentable and non fermentable sugars at the same time.
I do a step at 52, because the PH of my water is slightly to high. At this temperature the pH of the mash goes down slightly; With a short step at 52C you achieve better head retention and with a longer step the beer is easier to filter.But most people stopped doing this because of the better quality of the malt. However in my local beer club nearly everyone does it, sometimes we even start at 45C.

That being said everyone has a different taste, step mashing is generally a bit harder (time consuming) than infusion mashing and if you can't keep the right temperatures when you step mash it's better to do a infusion, I've done it when I started brewing cause I didn't have the right equipment. Just saying it would be nice to try it and see the array of different beers you can make with the same recipe just by adjusting your mash times and your temperatures :).

I will add a quote here of my fellow Belgian Chris Bauweraerts, the owner/brewmaster of La Chouffe. Yes i know it's a blonde beer in a Belgian dubbel related post, but the same applies to other beers:

“It makes no sense to brew ‘Belgian-style beers’ with only one mash temperature. The one-mash-temperature works, of course, but then the beer has a bad ... head retention, and probably the beer has a lack of body. American or British beer consumers don’t care very much about a nice mouthwatering and inviting head on the top of a glass of beer. But Czech, German, Belgian, French—in short, the brewers of the Western part of the European continent—want a nice head on their glass of beer. A nice head is part of the Belgian beer culture."

If you want a good head retention with a single infusion mash you will need to mash at a slightly lower temperature 66C.

Opinions?
 
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