Equipment selection help for keezer build

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demetman

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Hello guys, I'm starting a keezer project and I need your input for acquiring the best equipment for my needs. I will be converting a 10.6cf GE chest freezer into a keezer(FCM11PHWW). Kegging is entirely a new venture for me. I plan on building a collar onto the base of the freezer and installing 5 faucets. I have a 20# CO2 tank and 10 used ball lock cornies.

My intentions are to allow for at least 3 different serving pressures for various styles of beer. I brew 5 gal batches weekly, of varying styles. I don't mind spending the money for quality equipment up front, so I can grow into this system as I figure things out. What I was thinking, was to use the CO2 tank outside of the keezer with a single dual gauge primary regulator(taprite from morebeer). Run a line from that into the keezer through the collar to a 3 way secondary regulator(taprite). My questios arise at that point. Do I need a valve of some sort between primary and secondary? Should I use a ssT into 1 regulator to carbonate 2 beers at a specific volume(IPAs etc) and the other 2 regulators could be dedicated and set for specific pressures for other styles(belgians, porters, stouts etc)? Do I need a free valve for carbonating other kegs to be tapped next? Or even bottling a few beers to give to friends? I'm just trying to make smart purchases that will allow me to do everything I will need to do as I figure things out and grow with the setup. Should I use 3/16" beverage tubing at 6ft for my beer lines and 5/16" tubing for gas?

I was planning on purchasing Ranco FE601 wired digital temp controller for this unit. I also have noticed that many keezer builts are furnished with computer fans and or bilge fans for air movement. Is this something I should incorporate into my design up front or wait to see if I need air circulation after things are set up? Your thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated. Thank you
Demetrios
 
You don't need different serving pressures, you need different carbonation pressures.
You need a dual regulator, one is set to 6-8 psi for serving that feeds into a 5-way manifold that splits off between the 5 kegs.
The other is for carbonating different styles; takes 1-2 weeks to fully carbonate a keg with the sit and wait method.

SS Perlick faucets with SS shanks are bad ass.
You want check valves on all gas lines and MFL-FFL connections on everything for ultimate flexibility.
6' beverage tubing for beer lines is perfect, 3/16" can be used for everything.
Always have extra o-rings, quick disconnects, poppets, and keg lube on hand.
Carbonation line can double as a bottling line; dump current head pressure and attach gas line set to ~2psi to bottle from keg (bottom up).
Always take everything apart for cleaning in between batches, having tools just for working on kegs help.
3 part Oxyclean to 2 part TSP will make a keg spotless with an overnight soak.
A $5 bathroom scale works great in giving you an idea on your CO2 tank level.


FYI
Stout faucets require higher serving pressures because they push beer through a tiny orifice to produce pillow like foam.
However they use nitrogen to do this as to not increase carbonation.
 
Others will chime in, this is all opinion only.

Yes, your CO2 tank can live outside. What I did on mine was to run 1/4" brass nipples through the collar, and use air hose attachments to be able to connect/disconnect my gas lines. This makes it extremely easy to attach and remove the tank.

http://www.harborfreight.com/brass-industrial-quick-coupler-set-5-pc-62696.html

Of course, sealing/caulking around the pipe when you install is key.

I use a dual regulator to provide two different pressures. I keep one set at serving pressure of about 12psi, and other at 30psi for seltzer, cider, or carbing.

http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/regulator/twoproduct/dual_primary_co2_regulator_t752hp.html

So I had two sets of those disconnects (have the female coupler on the CO2 side, and mount the male on the keezer) running into the keezer, and each one running to a manifold. Each branch has a check valve to stop potential backflow to the regulator, as well as halt the gas when not in use.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/gas-manifold-4.html

You COULD set this up with each keg having it's own secondary regulator, but I didn't feel the need to do that - I wouldn't need that many different pressures. Your own application may vary, but with 5 beers on tap for years, I've never needed anything other than 12 and 30.

For bottling beers, a few options exist. I use what's known as the "Bowie Bottler", an insert for Perlick taps that allows you to fill bottles from the tap. http://brulosophy.com/2016/07/14/the-bru-bottler-update-how-to-build-your-own/

Yes, you certainly want a fan in your keezer. Basic thermodynamics shows that cold air sinks, and what you end up with is "layering". If your temp sensor is on the bottom, you'll end up with a layer of warmer air around the collar. If your temp sensor is on the top, you end up with frozen kegs. The fan keeps the air circulating, and will provide a more consistent internal temperature.
 
You don't need different serving pressures, you need different carbonation pressures...

If you do what you suggest, won't the carbonation in the beer drop to how many volumes it would be given your serving pressure?

If you carbonate at 14 psi and then serve at 8 psi, sooner or later everything is going to equalize and your beer will have CO2 volume equivalent to 8 psi and not 14, right? Or am I missing something?
 
I should have mentioned that I have 5 batches in secondary now. Freezer is being delivered tomorrow. Going to take at least a week for me to built the collar and remount the lid. I'm also building a collar for a 7cfGE chest freezer that will be used as a fermentation chamber. I don't see a problem leaving the beers in the fermenters until I'm ready to keg. I REALLY would like to avoid having to bottle all that beer. Plus I'm super excited to dive into this new venture. Is there a way to carbonate multiple kegs(5) at once? Got a lot of work ahead of me.

On the side. If I were to purchase the RancoFE602 digital 2 stage temp controller wired, am I able to use this controller to control the temp for fermentation in the 7cf freezer at say 68F, and simultaneously ferment a carboy with FermWrap outside of the freezer plugged into the heating outlet?
 
If you do what you suggest, won't the carbonation in the beer drop to how many volumes it would be given your serving pressure?

If you carbonate at 14 psi and then serve at 8 psi, sooner or later everything is going to equalize and your beer will have CO2 volume equivalent to 8 psi and not 14, right? Or am I missing something?

This is correct. You should Carbonate and Serve at the same pressure or Gas Laws will take over and you will be serving beer at a carbonation level you didn't intend.

Where this does work is in serving a pre-carbonated beer over a short period of time. It does take a little time for gas laws to come into effect (which is why a beer doesn't instantly de-carbonate when poured and why the sit and wait method of carbonating exists.
 
If you do what you suggest, won't the carbonation in the beer drop to how many volumes it would be given your serving pressure?

If you carbonate at 14 psi and then serve at 8 psi, sooner or later everything is going to equalize and your beer will have CO2 volume equivalent to 8 psi and not 14, right? Or am I missing something?

You certainty don't want beer coming out of the faucets at 14 psi.
There is some high level discussion somewhere on here about pressure equalization; I am no expert on this topic. The last drop may not be as fizzy as the first drop; but at that point you probably won't care.
 
You certainty don't want beer coming out of the faucets at 14 psi.
There is some high level discussion somewhere on here about pressure equalization; I am no expert on this topic. The last drop may not be as fizzy as the first drop; but at that point you probably won't care.

That is why Draft System Equalization is important (important enough that the Brewers Association has written an entire manual on proper operation of a draft system which includes a large section on equalization). Beer line length (and various other factors) add resistance to the system. The lines should be balanced such that they pour well at Carbonation Pressures. I run 13PSI indicated (although i think my regulator indicates a bit high) and have draft lines that cause the beer to be poured at a comfortable (although actually a bit slower than I would like) rate. I should (and when it's time to replace the lines, will) reduce the length to get closer to the rate of pour I am looking for.
 
You will need more equipment if you feel equalization is important, not much more however.
For 3 different pressures you need 3 regulators.
Instead of a common manifold you would need to substitute for at least 2x 'T' with MFL check valves installed. I think they even make some of these that fit on the regulator.
You will need to make variable length beer lines.
A good label system to keep everything straight as this does add some complexity.
 
Alternately, either a 3 regulator setup or a few Secondary regulators will supply the varied pressures. Size your line length to a sane minimum length based on the low end of your carbonation spectrum and use Flow Control faucets (which don't cost a whole lot much more than regular faucets) to dial in the serving speed/experience that you're looking for.

Welcome to Homebrew, there are many more ways to skin a cat than you can think of, and just as many to brew with it!
 
Ok, I think I need some deeper understanding of the features and benifits of each option in more detail. This is all my first look at this equipment. How could this dual body 3 gauge regulator be used? https://www.morebeer.com/products/co2-regulator-dual-body-gauge.html?site_id=7 I'm not sure why I would run 2 gas lines into my keezer from this regulator?

Why would't I use this single body dual gauge regulator and drill 1 hole to enter the keezer, to attach to a secondary regulator? https://www.morebeer.com/products/taprite-dual-gauge-co2-regulator.html?site_id=5

If I ran the gas line into the keezer from a single body 2 gauge primary regulator into a 4 way secondary regulatorhttps://www.morebeer.com/products/taprite-dual-gauge-co2-regulator.html?site_id=5 Could I use the regulator on the end(left side) and run that into a 4 way manifold to carb 4 kegs simultaneously? Then use the remaining 3 regulators to serve at desired pressures? Y fittings from two of the secondary regulators for 2 kegs of the same desired serving pressure. Then the last regulator could be for higher desired serving pressure(Belgians). This make any sense or am I way out in left field?
 
I will try to take on some of these questions.
The 2 body regulator will only get you 2 pressures and you will need to run both lines inside the freezer.

If you want to use secondary regulators you need a high pressure regulator in combination with multiple low pressure regulators: http://www.kegconnection.com/seconday-regulators/

How many kegs fit in your keezer? I was thinking 5 faucets for 5 kegs?
If you are going with a setup that requires you to serve and carbonate at the same pressure you need a 3 body 3 gauge primary regulator.
Each will need to enter you keezer so 3 holes need to be drilled.
2x will need a T with check valves installed, something like this: http://www.kegconnection.com/wye-with-two-check-valves/
You can then carbonate and serve 5 kegs at the same time at 3 different pressures.

Also, the keg connection guys are pretty great at answering questions and they are experts in this stuff. I would propose my system to them and have them help with part selection.
 
mredge73;7748787]I will try to take on some of these questions.
The 2 body regulator will only get you 2 pressures and you will need to run both lines inside the freezer.

If you want to use secondary regulators you need a high pressure regulator in combination with multiple low pressure regulators: http://www.kegconnection.com/seconday-regulators/

How many kegs fit in your keezer? I was thinking 5 faucets for 5 kegs?
If you are going with a setup that requires you to serve and carbonate at the same pressure you need a 3 body 3 gauge primary regulator.
Each will need to enter you keezer so 3 holes need to be drilled.
2x will need a T with check valves installed, something like this: http://www.kegconnection.com/wye-with-two-check-valves/
You can then carbonate and serve 5 kegs at the same time at 3 different pressures.

[QUOTEAlso, the keg connection guys are pretty great at answering questions and they are experts in this stuff. I would propose my system to them and have them help with part selection.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info. I'll pick their brain on some options
 
Just wanted to follow up with a thanks for all the suggestions you guys laid out. mredge73, good call with the kegconnection.com suggestion. They set me straight, with a really nice system that I can manage. I went with a tapright duel body regulator, a 5way manifold with 5 CMB taps and a 3way manifold for carbing. All lines were assembled and a breeze to install. I'm using a ranco temp controller. Another week and I will be carbing beer! Here is a few pics of the install. I'm starting a keezer build thread with more pics when finished.

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IMG_0101.JPG


IMG_0100.JPG
 
I am so glad for this thread! I had this exact freezer delivered today. Thanks for all the advice everyone!

Awesome! It's a solid freezer with will serve you well. I can squeeze in 8 ball lock corny kegs with the tank outside. My setup is for serving 5 beers and carbing 3. I brew weekly, so I needed something that could accommodate my brew frequency. Gotta throw some shin digs to consume some of my stock. Good luck with the build and shout out if you have any questions.
 
Any chance we could get a photo of they layout? Curious to see how 8 ball locks fit. Did you need to use the ledge inside the freezer? Is it possible to fit 8 + CO2 tank? Thanks in advance!!
 
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