Can you really not know what goes into malt extract?

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tiredofbuyingbeer

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I've seen it claimed before that one drawback of brewing with extract is that you don't really know what you're getting, since (it is alleged) extract companies put any number of mysterious things--maybe caramel malt, maybe adjuncts--into their extracts. Is that really true? I mean, there are spec sheets like this one. Is the idea that they might mean anything by entries like "pilsen malt"? (In the case of Breiss Pilsen DME, a natural assumption would be that they mean that they use Breiss's Pilsen malt.) Or that maybe these companies are lying? Or is the claim that you don't know what you're really getting when you use malt extract from a company like Breiss or Muntons just false?
 
It appears that at least Breiss publishes what the ingredients are.
If the company publishes what is used, I would accept that unless I had some reason to think the information was incorrect or false. I am not sure all companies publish the information. If not, or you can't find it then you really don't know what "Golden Malt Extract" from "BrewPro Malts" really contains.

I only use extracts occasionally, usually when brewing inside during the winter. I have just used Muntons or Breiss light dry malt extract and have not concerned myself with what went into making it.
 
It appears that at least Breiss publishes what the ingredients are.
If the company publishes what is used, I would accept that unless I had some reason to think the information was incorrect or false. I am not sure all companies publish the information. If not, or you can't find it then you really don't know what "Golden Malt Extract" from "BrewPro Malts" really contains.

I only use extracts occasionally, usually when brewing inside during the winter. I have just used Muntons or Breiss light dry malt extract and have not concerned myself with what went into making it.

OK, yeah, so maybe the claim is that you sometimes can't know, depending on the brand. I don't see where Northern Brewer's house brand of LME, Maillard Malts, publishes a spec sheet, but sometimes they're adequately specific (e.g., their Maris Otter LME description says it contains 100% Maris Otter). Muntons seems to have spec sheets. Coopers does not appear to. I guess you wouldn't know what's in a big tub of LME at the LHBS unless you asked.
 
I think the catalogs should have this information, but this isn't always the case. You can always ask. I couldn't find any specs for the Williams Brewing malt extract, so I asked. I was told all the Williams Brewing extracts are all malt, with no corn syrup or other additives, unless the catalog description states otherwise.

I think the lower quality extracts, with unwanted ingredients, were common years ago, but quality has improved a lot.
 
I think the catalogs should have this information, but this isn't always the case. You can always ask. I couldn't find any specs for the Williams Brewing malt extract, so I asked. I was told all the Williams Brewing extracts are all malt, with no corn syrup or other additives, unless the catalog description states otherwise.

I think the lower quality extracts, with unwanted ingredients, were common years ago, but quality has improved a lot.

Yes, it might be "all malt"- but which malt? And which kinds? Caramel/crystal malt? If so, how much? Once reason it's hard to work with some extracts is because some, like amber malt extract, may have a description like this: (Northern Brewer): Maillard Malts® Amber Malt Extract Syrup is composed of pale malt with caramel 60 for a grainy caramel sweetness and Munich malt for increased complexity and fullness.

Ok, so how do you use it? If you want to use it with other specialty grains, you don't know if your extract is 5% crystal 60L, or 15%. You don't know how much is Munich malt, and you may want to use more (or less) in your recipe.

Even the spec sheet from Briess' version doesn't say how much of what is in there: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_CBWSparklingAmberDME.pdf
 
I've seen it claimed before that one drawback of brewing with extract is that you don't really know what you're getting, since (it is alleged) extract companies put any number of mysterious things--maybe caramel malt, maybe adjuncts--into their extracts. Is that really true? I mean, there are spec sheets like this one. Is the idea that they might mean anything by entries like "pilsen malt"? (In the case of Breiss Pilsen DME, a natural assumption would be that they mean that they use Breiss's Pilsen malt.) Or that maybe these companies are lying? Or is the claim that you don't know what you're really getting when you use malt extract from a company like Breiss or Muntons just false?

And in the case above, it does NOT say it's 100% pilsner malt. It might be- but it might be 90% pilsner malt and 10% carapils. Or something totally different. "100 % malted barley" doesn't mean anything as to what it actually consists of in regards to caramel malt, US 2-row, 6-row, carapils, etc.
 
And in the case above, it does NOT say it's 100% pilsner malt. It might be- but it might be 90% pilsner malt and 10% carapils. Or something totally different. "100 % malted barley" doesn't mean anything as to what it actually consists of in regards to caramel malt, US 2-row, 6-row, carapils, etc.

INGREDIENTS
99% Pilsen Malt
1% Carapils® Malt
Water

Proprietary Amber is very problematic.
The several with a specific % of "base malt" are a bit problematic. I've always guessed Brewers Malt.
Most are straight forward references to Briess grains.

Now, let's talk about all grain. Are y'all getting 100% of the grain variety expected? Did any seed blow over from an adjacent field? Was there intentional or accidental mixing when bagging? Does your HBS allow self-serve?
 
Yes, it might be "all malt"- but which malt? And which kinds? Caramel/crystal malt? If so, how much? Once reason it's hard to work with some extracts is because some, like amber malt extract, may have a description like this: (Northern Brewer): Maillard Malts® Amber Malt Extract Syrup is composed of pale malt with caramel 60 for a grainy caramel sweetness and Munich malt for increased complexity and fullness.

Yes, very true. I was really referring to the older products that apparently had lots of unadvertised adjuncts. I also asked Williams Brewing about the percentages of the various malts and was told it is proprietary. Their catalog describes the different malts used for the most part, but doesn't say how much. In fact, I've guessed at the amounts and missed in one case, but tried again later and hit it. Even when I guessed wrong it turned out to be a good beer - just not what I was trying for.
 
Now, let's talk about all grain. Are y'all getting 100% of the grain variety expected? Did any seed blow over from an adjacent field? Was there intentional or accidental mixing when bagging? Does your HBS allow self-serve?
Those same situations will occur at the same rate for the companies making the extracts so your argument doesn't hold water. Go back to Yoopers first post.
 
The manufacturers should tell you the malts used if you ask, assuming they care about you as a customer. Based on articles I have read from people who've talked to the manufacturers:

Light malt extracts are typically 100% pale malt, pilsner malt, etc.

Amber malt extracts typically have some nominal percentage (like 10-15%) of a medium crystal malt with the pale malt, and maybe just a pinch of black malt for more color.

Dark malt extracts can have any number of specialty malts, usually the same as amber malts, but then also having some low percentage (like 5-10%) of black malt or roasted barley.

Keep in mind, the crystal malts in amber and dark extracts make these a little less fermentable than light extract. So, if you want more control, then it's never a bad idea to just plan to always use light extract, then add your own specialty malts. Otherwise, you might indeed not know exactly what you're putting into your beer, unless you can develop a good relationship with the manufacturer or someone who knows.

And of course longer term.... move towards all-grain. You won't be sorry. And I was going to say "sorry, I couldn't resist", but I'm not sorry. :)
 
I would feel more comfortable if the FDA would require labels on these extracts. Not just what’s in it, but when it was made. I prefer all-grain so I know what’s going into by recipes, how much and how fresh. Even the Wheat LME from Maillard Malts says nothing about what wheat grains they used or how old the grains were or when they collected the syrup. I feel if they were to give out that info, they would lose money. People would make their own extracts instead.
 
I used to stock shelves part-time as a night job for the local supermarket.
As an employee, it was regular practice to arrange shelf items with production dates in a certain order. As a customer, you always want the freshest items you can get.
I buy food AND beer this way, and as a new brewer using extracts, the products with the best product data were the ones I gravitated toward. My local brewshop will re-package their bulk LME with no ingredient or data labels, so this led me to physically looking at their in-house barrels to see who the supplier was.

Building recipes to style requires understanding malt ingredient ratios. As an extract brewer this is a challenge, so progressing to all grain is a logical solution.
 
I would feel more comfortable if the FDA would require labels on these extracts. Not just what’s in it, but when it was made. I prefer all-grain so I know what’s going into by recipes, how much and how fresh. Even the Wheat LME from Maillard Malts says nothing about what wheat grains they used or how old the grains were or when they collected the syrup. I feel if they were to give out that info, they would lose money. People would make their own extracts instead.


Ah, the all-knowing and benevolent FDA. Yes, getting them involved would rectify the wrongs, particularly since these malt-extract producers are corporations - which, by default, are nefarious.
 
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