stever1000's recirculating e-BIAB

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stever1000

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This is the thread for my e-BIAB recirculating apartment rig. It is (and has been) a work in progress for quite some time, but now I feel I have made enough progress to post it to the forums… I went the BIAB route because I have limited space to work with


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Some quick details:
16 gallon pot with a mixture of welded and weldless fittings
5500 Watt ripple element with DIY stainless element enclosure
homemade BIAB bag
pizza pan/false bottom
24V tan pump
recirculating to the lid through locline – camlock connections so I can remove the lid and still recirculate for whirlpool

Control panel (using P – J diagram for single element BIAB)
“Enclosure” is a clear storage container (temporary until I can go to the US and get a proper enclosure for <30USD)
MYPIN TD4
120V to 24V converter
SSR, contactor, etc
80mm fan for cooling of SSR
Pump, power and element on/off
E-Stop

Recirculation:
Ball valve, PT-100 RTD probe, 24V tan pump with PWM voltage control.
Silicon tubing and female camlocks for all hose connections
mixture of male/female camlocks on equipment
Locline for recirculation through lid, or whirlpool

Chilling:
Counterflow chiller with camlock connections
outlet gauge to monitor chilled wort temp (to recirculate in pot or to transfer to fermenter)

Future/planned:
RIMS for mash consistency
motorized barley crusher

I would like to thank the entire HBT forum for the help since I started brewing 2 years ago. This site has a wealth of information, and I hope by posting my build I can contribute in some way.

Longer story:
I live in an apartment and can’t brew on my balcony with gas, and I have quickly out grown my 5 gallon stovetop setup. My apartment is a rental so I have no control on the stove/range and how old and inefficient it is. So I decided to go the route of electric BIAB.
I started collecting parts in Nov 2015, but with a new job and busy schedule, I didn’t start building it until August 2016. With a long time acquiring parts I was able to get great deals on most things (through eBay, LHBS sales, or amazon) and I had a lot of time to think about things too.

I bought the 16gallon pot first, knowing that I would do primarily 5 gallon batches. The larger size meant I could also do 10gallon batches with a combination of partial volume BIAB and some sort of sparge to get to the full boil volume required.

Misc
I like buying discounted or recycling things, and have used that idea for several projects so far (control panel, ferm. chamber, stir plate, etc). I have a stir plate built from an old lunch container, which funny enough fits the edge of my 2L Erlenmeyer flask perfectly. I also have a 5L flask, but I haven’t used that yet. I have found several things from garage sales (i.e. 8 balllock kegs for <$200 CAD) or from local homebrewers (10gallon keg and full c02 setup for $30) as well.

I couldn’t find a cheap enclosure for my panel, so I used a suitable sized plastic storage container. It’s not pretty but it does what its supposed to do…

Fermenting
I have a fermentation chamber (insulated wood enclosure and old fridge cooling system) which I can hold 2-3 buckets and 1 carboy (or a mixture) and control the temperature year round.

Beer
For packaging I have a 2 tap kegerator for serving, four 5gallon kegs (to naturally and force carb) and also over 100 bottles for bottle conditioning, depending on the type I brew. I enjoy all styles of beer, but particularly love IPA’s, saisons, and Belgian styles.

Pics to follow in the next few posts...
 
Collecting parts:
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Spa Panel
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6&#8217; cord from the range outlet was not long enough. I had to buy a plug and bulk 10/4. Turned out well:

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Enclosure:
Beginning:

Plugs:
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Top:
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Kettle
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Pickup tube&#8230; realized I need to rotate the pickup more so I don&#8217;t suck air

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&#8220;False bottom&#8221;

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Element Enclosure
Cord:
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Option 1 pump and probe connection


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Pump Connection:
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Lid Mockup
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System Mockup

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First leaktest:

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Pump to Lid Connection (with recirculation through locline)
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Wort chiller:

Camlock connection for wort inlet/outlet

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Amateur soldering:
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installed:
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Temperature gauge/probe installed on outlet:
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Kegerator:
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Copper cooling:

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Inside of the door:

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Almost done:

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Fermentation Chamber

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First Brew Day

Barley Crusher

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Crush (factory setting of 0.039&#8221;)

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First connections

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Recirculating during mashing

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Recirculating during boil

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Draining and squeezing the grains through a plastic colander&#8230;

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Fitting connection (option 1)

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Recirculating chilling

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Recirculating to pot, warm water from chiller filling keg to clean

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Chilled wort into fermenter:

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Pickup tube didn&#8217;t work, still have some wort left in the kettle:

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Nice setup!
Question-Why are you recirculating during the boil?

Thank you!

I recirculate during boil because my temp probe is on the outside of my kettle, in a tee, so if I don't recirculate, the boil is too rigorous
 
Thank you!

I recirculate during boil because my temp probe is on the outside of my kettle, in a tee, so if I don't recirculate, the boil is too rigorous

I don't understand this. I can't think of a good reason to measure temp during the boil. But wait, it just occurred to me you might be setting a temperature for the boil.

Doesn't your controller have a manual mode so you can adjust the output to control the boil vigor? Manual mode is the way to go if you've got that option.

Edit: found it! You do have manual mode on that controller. Use that. You'll have much better control over the boil

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=6607330
 
Nice job! You will like manual mode much better. You can control the intensity of the boil. I set mine to 70% and I get a good rolling boil in my keggle and a lower boil off rate (1 gallon an hour) so I don't waste wort. You may need 80% or whatever is the magic number for your vessel. You will see when you are using it how intense the boil is and you can play with the percentage until you reach a level that is what you want and a happy medium.

John
 
I was hoping I would have just as much control using the PID with a set temp, but as I found yesterday that was not the case.

I will test out manual mode next brew day

Forgot to also mention, you've got a nice looking set up!

Let us know how manual mode goes. FWIW, I have one 1500 watt element full blast and the other controlled with the PID at 30% to 50%. I shoot for 5-10% total boil off and set my controller at the appropriate percentage based on batch size.
 
Forgot to also mention, you've got a nice looking set up!

Let us know how manual mode goes. FWIW, I have one 1500 watt element full blast and the other controlled with the PID at 30% to 50%. I shoot for 5-10% total boil off and set my controller at the appropriate percentage based on batch size.

Thanks for the kind words! I will let you know how manual mode goes, makes sense it will work better
 
I guess there are less comments because the build is finished...maybe I should have posted this in steps so I get more feedback? :D
:mug:
 
So I'm pricing out a RIMS tube using 1" parts, dollars are in Canadian below:

1 - 1x18" Stainless pipe 26.56
2 - 1x1/2x1" stainless tee 21.00
2 - 1x1/2" reducer bushing 9.12
1 - 1" male camlock 9.98
1 - 1" female camlock 14.32

$80.98

I will probably use a cartridge heater instead of an element and make use of a longer heater
 
So I'm pricing out a RIMS tube using 1" parts, dollars are in Canadian below:

1 - 1x18" Stainless pipe 26.56
2 - 1x1/2x1" stainless tee 21.00
2 - 1x1/2" reducer bushing 9.12
1 - 1" male camlock 9.98
1 - 1" female camlock 14.32

$80.98

I will probably use a cartridge heater instead of an element and make use of a longer heater

Why do you want a RIMS? You already have an element in the kettle and a false bottom.
 
Why do you want a RIMS? You already have an element in the kettle and a false bottom.

I was worried about the temp being too high, or inaccurate,because the element is 5500W/240V and the temp probe is outside the kettle in a Tee

Am I overthinking?
 
I was worried about the temp being too high, or inaccurate,because the element is 5500W/240V and the temp probe is outside the kettle in a Tee

Am I overthinking?

As long as you're circulating wort past the probe, I'd say there's no problem with using the element you've got to maintain temps. Lots of pre-built systems out there that do exactly this.
 
yea i use the same element, recirculate to mainttain temps. I find it works best if you place the temp probe as close to where the wort leaves the kettle as possible. The whole point of a pid is to maintain temps. You have one so no need for rims in this case.
 
As long as you're circulating wort past the probe, I'd say there's no problem with using the element you've got to maintain temps. Lots of pre-built systems out there that do exactly this.

Is there any additional benefit of having RIMS? I've seen other systems that are e-BIAB with RIMS as well. Is it just an extra level of control (and cost)?

Thanks :mug:
 
yea i use the same element, recirculate to mainttain temps. I find it works best if you place the temp probe as close to where the wort leaves the kettle as possible. The whole point of a pid is to maintain temps. You have one so no need for rims in this case.

This is as close as I can position it to allow easy cleaning (probe is at the bottom, in the Tee)

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yea i use the same element, recirculate to mainttain temps. I find it works best if you place the temp probe as close to where the wort leaves the kettle as possible. The whole point of a pid is to maintain temps. You have one so no need for rims in this case.
Probably need to re-calibrate between summer and winter though
 
This is as close as I can position it to allow easy cleaning (probe is at the bottom, in the Tee)

20160915_211523.jpg

Well not really. Flip the tee around and put it as the first thing coming out of the kettle. or right after the valve if you have to.
 
This is as close as I can position it to allow easy cleaning (probe is at the bottom, in the Tee)

20160915_211523.jpg

Kinda hard to see but i have mine just after the valve. I am considering moving it keeps better temp the closer i have moved it. Used to have it on the recirc output on the lid.

IMG_2452.jpg
 
Is there any additional benefit of having RIMS? I've seen other systems that are e-BIAB with RIMS as well. Is it just an extra level of control (and cost)?

Thanks :mug:

No additional benefit that I can think of. A RIMs tube is just another piece of equipment to clean if you already have a way to maintain temp via a kettle mounted element.

I don't know that I've ever seen a system with an internal kettle element and an external RIMs tube. But it's entirely possible I just didn't notice.
 
No additional benefit that I can think of. A RIMs tube is just another piece of equipment to clean if you already have a way to maintain temp via a kettle mounted element.

I don't know that I've ever seen a system with an internal kettle element and an external RIMs tube. But it's entirely possible I just didn't notice.

On to my next project...motorized grain mill. My shoulders dont like grinding 10-12lbs of grain :D
 
Brewed last night and still did not hit very good efficiencies again...

11lbs pilsner
4 oz saaz (3.4%) hops 2oz 60mins, 1oz 15mins 1oz 1min
90min mash
60min boil

7.5gallons into kettle for mashing
mash in at 160F (overshot my target of 148)
down to 148F 15 mins in, stirring a lot
held at 148/149F f
Total mash time 90mins

OG of 1.049 into fermenter...I need to measure my volume into fermenter tonight, ran out of time last night but marked it on my carboy so I can easily check it

I squeezed the hell out of the grain at the end of the mash

I lost at least 0.25gallons in my kettle because my hop pellets made a mess and my whirlpool didn't work

If I want 5gallons into my keg, I'm estimating the following:
1gallon boil off/evaporation
0.25g kettle loss (including hop absorption / pellets)
0.25g fermenter loss
0.66 grain absorption (.06 x 11lbs)
So I should have added 7.15gallons instead of 7.5 gallons

Also read I shouldn't use the SG feature on my refractometer, and I need to use a correction factor to the Brix. hmmmm
http://www.brewersfriend.com/how-to-determine-your-refractometers-wort-correction-factor/
 
Your build is coming along nicely...Nice work! I agree with not needing a rims if you already have recirculation and do biab... also I would have done what was suggested earlier and moved the tee and temp probe to before the ballvalve... thats exactly what I did on my old mashtun seup... only I had the ballvalve on the side and you would be facing the back of the temp probe when standing in front of the kettle/cooler if that makes sense...

You should be able to step mash fairly quick with your setup too...

There are folks on here with rims as well as the setup like you have but its like paying hundreds for a big bulky heavy insulated mash tun That you can no longer just take outside and dump and rinse and using it with a rims tube which is really kind of silly if you think about it and not practical at all...double redundancy. or a spinning sparge arm when a person batch sparges...I'd love to hear that one justified...
Tolks like toys and bling, I'm just as guilty as adding things for the coolness or the engineering aspect of it that may not be so practical but I do keep my toys on a budget...
Hell, using 5500w for only making 5 or even 10 gallons of beer is not really all that cost effective depending on how much you brew vs saving a lot of money going with a 3500w and 20a wiring but we say to ourselves "what if".... and I can save like 10 minutes each brew day if I spend a couple hundred more on my system and wiring... "and surely $200 pumps are worth it over those little $18 plastic ones?" By the time many are through talking themselves and others into believing all this stuff is necessary they have talked themselves out of going electric or into putting it off till they can afford to overdo it later...
 
Your build is coming along nicely...Nice work! I agree with not needing a rims if you already have recirculation and do biab... also I would have done what was suggested earlier and moved the tee and temp probe to before the ballvalve... thats exactly what I did on my old mashtun seup... only I had the ballvalve on the side and you would be facing the back of the temp probe when standing in front of the kettle/cooler if that makes sense...

You should be able to step mash fairly quick with your setup too...

Thanks for the kind words, I will move my temp probe and ball valve around and see how it works. The one reason I have it in front of the ball valve is I can remove the probe and keep the kettle free of fittings while moving it from my closet to my kitchen in my apartment
 
Thanks for the kind words, I will move my temp probe and ball valve around and see how it works. The one reason I have it in front of the ball valve is I can remove the probe and keep the kettle free of fittings while moving it from my closet to my kitchen in my apartment
I could see how having the fittings off when moving from room to room would be nice..I just carried my boil kettle downstairs to my kitchen sink and cleaned it.. royal pain.. next house will have a basement or dedicated second brewroom with plumbing!
 
I could see how having the fittings off when moving from room to room would be nice..I just carried my boil kettle downstairs to my kitchen sink and cleaned it.. royal pain.. next house will have a basement or dedicated second brewroom with plumbing!

That's the dream...dedicated brew space :mug:
 
Brewed last night and still did not hit very good efficiencies again...

11lbs pilsner
4 oz saaz (3.4%) hops 2oz 60mins, 1oz 15mins 1oz 1min
90min mash
60min boil

7.5gallons into kettle for mashing
mash in at 160F (overshot my target of 148)
down to 148F 15 mins in, stirring a lot
held at 148/149F f
Total mash time 90mins

OG of 1.049 into fermenter...I need to measure my volume into fermenter tonight, ran out of time last night but marked it on my carboy so I can easily check it

I squeezed the hell out of the grain at the end of the mash

I lost at least 0.25gallons in my kettle because my hop pellets made a mess and my whirlpool didn't work

If I want 5gallons into my keg, I'm estimating the following:
1gallon boil off/evaporation
0.25g kettle loss (including hop absorption / pellets)
0.25g fermenter loss
0.66 grain absorption (.06 x 11lbs)
So I should have added 7.15gallons instead of 7.5 gallons

Also read I shouldn't use the SG feature on my refractometer, and I need to use a correction factor to the Brix. hmmmm
http://www.brewersfriend.com/how-to-determine-your-refractometers-wort-correction-factor/

A couple things that might help your process.

1. There is no reason to ever overshoot your mash temp with a setup like this. If you want to hit 148 just set strike temp to 148 and dough in. You will come in under and the pid will gently bring you up to strike. It is much better than overshooting and waiting half the mash for it to come down.
2. I would recommend using paint strainer bags as hop bags. They are available at home depot and very cheap. Then no need to worry about a whirlpool and sucking lots of hop debris into your pump and chiller. Just clip them to the side of your kettle with a binder clip.
 
A couple things that might help your process.

1. There is no reason to ever overshoot your mash temp with a setup like this. If you want to hit 148 just set strike temp to 148 and dough in. You will come in under and the pid will gently bring you up to strike. It is much better than overshooting and waiting half the mash for it to come down.
2. I would recommend using paint strainer bags as hop bags. They are available at home depot and very cheap. Then no need to worry about a whirlpool and sucking lots of hop debris into your pump and chiller. Just clip them to the side of your kettle with a binder clip.

Both very good points. The overshooting is user error - I left the element on but turned the pump off so I could put my bag and grains in. The temp probe being outside and not circulating caused the element to keep firing so by the time I recirculate again the temp has risen. I could avoid this by turning the element off temporarily

Funny thing is I had a paint strainer bag in the kitchen for this purpose, but wanted to test the "whirlpool" arm I put together. It worked, but there was so much debris in the bottom it effected how much wort I could remove. I am building a hop spider this weekend, I have the parts just need to drill and assemble it

I still can't figure out why my efficiency is low...I calculated ~65% but need to double check...hopefully do another test batch Sunday. So far I'm up to 5 batches fermenting... :drunk:
 
are you crushing or LHBS? Either way double crush it and throw in some rice hulls. Finer crush will help with efficiency but can cause big problems when recirculating. Do you throttle back the pump quite a bit to prevent compressing the grain bed and removing wort faster than it can drain back through?
 
are you crushing or LHBS? Either way double crush it and throw in some rice hulls. Finer crush will help with efficiency but can cause big problems when recirculating. Do you throttle back the pump quite a bit to prevent compressing the grain bed and removing wort faster than it can drain back through?

I'm crushing with my barley crusher, factory set to 0.039". I posted pictures of it a few weeks ago and people commented it looked okay so I didn't bother adjusting it, compensating with a longer mash to reach the bigger grains. I will try double crushing to see if there's a difference

I turn the pump back to a trickle so that the water has enough time to run through the grain bed. The recirc arm is locline so I get mixing of the top as it enters which I hope prevents the grain from compacting. I did have troubles recirculating last time, the pump was starved and I had to pull the bag up and give the grain a stir :(
 
I like everything that you have, except the enclosure. The electrician in me is cringing.

Seeing the cracks in the plastic, I just feel like it's going to fail and you're going to have a major issue.

Without researching I'm not sure what the better solution is, but there has to be one.
 
I like everything that you have, except the enclosure. The electrician in me is cringing.

Seeing the cracks in the plastic, I just feel like it's going to fail and you're going to have a major issue.

Without researching I'm not sure what the better solution is, but there has to be one.

Excellent point!

There's one crack and that's at the PID when my enclosure fell off the table, anything else that looks like a crack is a scratch in the plastic.

The only issue I can see is if water get's on the enclosure and drips through the crack. This won't happen because the pot is far from the enclosure and I have a fan blowing the steam away.

Of course there are better solutions, but this was free versus $40+ for a plastic enclosure. I don't plan on this being long term, but it allows me to brew now instead of in the future while I wait for an affordable enclosure to become available. :mug:
 
I don't have a drill press or vice...here's my simple method to make a hop spider:

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Vice grips and a wood dowel make it easy. Took 15 mins start to finish.

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No more hop problems :mug:
 
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