Starter for Hefeweizen questions

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Ayerate

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So I'm planning to do a partial mash Hefe next week. I've read that dry yeast wheat strains kind of suck, so this is also my first time using liquid yeast (I went with WLP300), and first time I'll need a starter. This stuff is considerably more expensive than I'm used to so I want to make the most of it.

Here's what I'm thinking: I make a 3L starter using wheat DME. When time comes to pitch, I shake it up to make sure all the yeast is back in suspension, and pour about 1/3 of it off into another container for future use. Then I just pitch the whole rest of the starter.

The way I figure it, there's not much point cold crashing and decanting the starter: 1) Because wheat yeasts don't flocculate well anyway, and 2) Since I'm using wheat DME as my starter base, it's not going to affect my full batch's flavour, it's just going to make up some of the dilution volume since I'm not doing a full boil.

Sound good? Anyone think of any problems here?
 
Many advise under pitching for hefes... You may not want to bother with a starter at all. Lots of threads here to keep you busy and wondering!

Do you have a way to control fermentation temperature? That's more important, IMHO.
 
Many advise under pitching for hefes... You may not want to bother with a starter at all. Lots of threads here to keep you busy and wondering!

Do you have a way to control fermentation temperature? That's more important, IMHO.

I mean, I want to do a starter either way so I can grow more yeast for future use so I'm not shelling out $10 every batch. I know I can harvest the cake after fermentation, but since reading about building bigger starters for harvesting, that sounds more reliable and safer. I've already prepared the wort for the starter that's cooling, so I can't go back on that now. I could reserve 1/2 or even 2/3 of the 3L starter and just pitch 1 or 1.5L of it if overpitching is a problem.

As for temperature, the recommended range for the WLP300 is 68-72, and 70 is about where the room temperature sits most of the time in our apartment. If I need to cool it down I can set it next to an open window and the air from outside will take care of that. I've got an oatmeal stout sitting next to the window now and it's been in the mid-high 60's, and I close the window at night so it doesn't get too cold.
 
Here's what you can do. Pitch the vial into a small starter large enough to grow about 200 billion cells (use a calculator to determine this). Save half and pitch half. It will be like you saved a full vial of 100 Billion cells and pitched a fully viable vial of 100 billion cells.
 
Here's what you can do. Pitch the vial into a small starter large enough to grow about 200 billion cells (use a calculator to determine this). Save half and pitch half. It will be like you saved a full vial of 100 Billion cells and pitched a fully viable vial of 100 billion cells.

Alright, so, the yeast pitch calculator on Brewer's Friend estimates based on manufacture date (55 days old), I'm starting with only 62% viability. A 3L starter (which is how much wort I've prepared) should yield 224 billion cells with the occasional shaking method. Looks like half of this larger starter is about what I need, given the lower viability. Nice!
 
Second the temps and ~100B pitch rate. I use that same pitching rate for 5gal batches and with a lower temp it turns out very good with plenty of esters. If it gets too hot you'll get soapy flavors in my experience. I also tend to always overbuild starters for the purpose of saving money. Indeed you will find the hefe yeast just won't floc well. I tend to end up with a stringy looking loose cake that sort of hovers near the bottom. I never seem to get the compact easy to decant cakes like I do with normal ale or even lager yeast. When storing some yeast away you'll want to swirl it up anyways so I don't see an issue there.

Should add... You'll want a blowoff tube with a hefe yeast. They are monsters. Fermcap-s works also.
 
I mean, I want to do a starter either way so I can grow more yeast for future use so I'm not shelling out $10 every batch. I know I can harvest the cake after fermentation, but since reading about building bigger starters for harvesting, that sounds more reliable and safer. I've already prepared the wort for the starter that's cooling, so I can't go back on that now. I could reserve 1/2 or even 2/3 of the 3L starter and just pitch 1 or 1.5L of it if overpitching is a problem.



As for temperature, the recommended range for the WLP300 is 68-72, and 70 is about where the room temperature sits most of the time in our apartment. If I need to cool it down I can set it next to an open window and the air from outside will take care of that. I've got an oatmeal stout sitting next to the window now and it's been in the mid-high 60's, and I close the window at night so it doesn't get too cold.


You are checking actual fermentation temperature and not ambient room temp right?
 
Second the temps and ~100B pitch rate. I use that same pitching rate for 5gal batches and with a lower temp it turns out very good with plenty of esters. If it gets too hot you'll get soapy flavors in my experience. I also tend to always overbuild starters for the purpose of saving money. Indeed you will find the hefe yeast just won't floc well. I tend to end up with a stringy looking loose cake that sort of hovers near the bottom. I never seem to get the compact easy to decant cakes like I do with normal ale or even lager yeast. When storing some yeast away you'll want to swirl it up anyways so I don't see an issue there.

Should add... You'll want a blowoff tube with a hefe yeast. They are monsters. Fermcap-s works also.

Yeah, I was planning a blowoff for the actual batch. I figure the starter's got plenty of headspace in a 1 gallon jug, but I'm watching it. It's already krausening nicely. I'll see what I can do about keeping the temps down... maybe give it an ice bath with a towel wrapped around it.

You are checking actual fermentation temperature and not ambient room temp right?

Sticker thermometer on the bucket. I know it's probably a little warmer inside during active fermentation but I figure it's closer to interior temp than ambient room temperature. I did just get a floater that I could use but it seems like it would be a pain in the ass to read through all the krausen (especially on a wheat beer). Either way, I'll try to keep a close eye on things, I should be home for a lot of the time during the start of fermentation.
 
If you can find a way to squeeze a temperature controlled fermentation chamber into your routine, I think you'll be pleased with the results. At the very least, it's a lot less hassle.
 
Just figured I'd follow up: beer turned out great! Little bready, good balance of clove and banana flavours. The only minor defect is a bit of a sulphur smell coming off it, even almost a month after bottling. Admittedly I rushed to bottling it at about a week and a half because I wanted it ready for a Halloween party I was throwing, so that may have been part of the problem.

Next time I brew a batch I'll give it 2-3 weeks in primary before bottling, and I can probably do a better job keeping the temperatures in the low-mid 60's since I've started cooling my fermenter in a bin with water and frozen bottles.
 
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