Poll on batch sparging

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maltman

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For all the batch spargers out there, I have a quick question. Once you drain your 1st runnings and add you sparge water, how long do you let the mash sit before draining?
 
For all the batch spargers out there, I have a quick question. Once you drain your 1st runnings and add you sparge water, how long do you let the mash sit before draining?

0 minutes. I do a quick paddle stir, vorlauf, then run into boil kettle. BTW, I usually do 2 batch sparges.

In fact, I've got a saisson boiling right now :)
 
I usually end up letting it sit for 10 min. But now I'm wondering if I'm extracting tannins by doing that.
 
For all the batch spargers out there, I have a quick question. Once you drain your 1st runnings and add you sparge water, how long do you let the mash sit before draining?

I had the exact same question during my batch sparge earlier today. I see I'm doing it wrong, or at least much different than everyone else. I've always let my first sparge sit in the cooler for 30-40 min, then draining and adding a second sparge and letting that sit for 20 more minutes. I think it might stem from the instructions in the kits the LHBS sells saying that sparging should take at least 60 minutes. I just assumed that meant for batch sparging in addition to fly sparging. Next week's brew day I'm doing like everyone in here and making it as fast as possible. At the very least it'll shave an hour off the brew day which is a good thing.
 
I had the exact same question during my batch sparge earlier today. I see I'm doing it wrong, or at least much different than everyone else. I've always let my first sparge sit in the cooler for 30-40 min, then draining and adding a second sparge and letting that sit for 20 more minutes. I think it might stem from the instructions in the kits the LHBS sells saying that sparging should take at least 60 minutes. I just assumed that meant for batch sparging in addition to fly sparging. Next week's brew day I'm doing like everyone in here and making it as fast as possible. At the very least it'll shave an hour off the brew day which is a good thing.

Look at this...www.dennybrew.com
 
No, you're not. You're just wasting 10 minutes.

I'm curious why you think it would extract tannins. That depends on pH.


Good to know. I remember reading somewhere that tannin extraction occurred at higher temps.
 
Good to know. I remember reading somewhere that tannin extraction occurred at higher temps.

From what I understand it takes a combination of high temperature and a pH level that is unlikely you would ever encounter in a homebrewing setting.

Stir, Vorlauf until clear then drain.

Another question often asked it drain slowly? Only if draining fast sucks down the grainbed causing a stuck sparge. I start the drain slowly, once it is vorlaufed I open the valve all the way.
 
When I batch sparge, after a good stir I'll let the MLT sit lidded while I clean up my HLT and put it away - 10 minutes, more or less.
Then recirc vorlauf 'til the wort runs clear again then into the BK it goes...

Cheers!
 
However you sparge and drain, the key is consistency. As long as you follow the same procedure each time you brew, you should get fairly consistent results. Thus some people allow the sparge to sit for 20 minutes and others mix and drain right away. Neither is wrong, as both methods work for the person following them.
 
I do "10 minutes," which really means that I add the water, stir, let it sit while I get other things picked up or ready, then drain it. Mostly, I think it's just to take a break, and it's not really 10 minutes.
 
Maybe a couple minutes but it's not intentional--I add the sparge water, stir well, then drain away.

BTW, brewed Saturday and for the first time I tied a hop sock over the torpedo braid connected to the ball valve. No vorlauf, just opened 'er up and out came clear first runnings....and second runnings.

I'm thinking it cut down the time by at least 15 minutes of waiting for the vorlauf to clear and then returning the drained liquid to the mash tun to go through again.
 
Usually 15 min for sparge time. I will get a couple of vigorous stirs in that time. Then I voerlauf and drain the second runnings.
 
Maybe a couple minutes but it's not intentional--I add the sparge water, stir well, then drain away.

BTW, brewed Saturday and for the first time I tied a hop sock over the torpedo braid connected to the ball valve. No vorlauf, just opened 'er up and out came clear first runnings....and second runnings.

I'm thinking it cut down the time by at least 15 minutes of waiting for the vorlauf to clear and then returning the drained liquid to the mash tun to go through again.

If you use the right braid, there's no need for the sock and vorlauf shouldn't take more than 30 seconds.
 
the only reason to let it set for a while is if you stir then recirculate, you want to reset the grain bed and let it settle for a while to pull all the remaining lose sugar to the bottom and then that creates a filter of sorts

Nope, not really. When you batch sparge, you want the sugar in solution in the water.
 
Just a few minutes, maybe 5. I put the water in at about 170, stir the mash like I'm mad at it, and let it sit for just a few minutes to let the grain settle. Vorlauf 3-5 times depending on how light the beer is (more for lighter beers) and then drain to boil kettle. I also put a nylon mesh bag over the end of the hose that goes into the boil kettle to catch any grains that make it through the false bottom. Works like a charm.

Ron
 
Just a few minutes, maybe 5. I put the water in at about 170, stir the mash like I'm mad at it, and let it sit for just a few minutes to let the grain settle. Vorlauf 3-5 times depending on how light the beer is (more for lighter beers) and then drain to boil kettle. I also put a nylon mesh bag over the end of the hose that goes into the boil kettle to catch any grains that make it through the false bottom. Works like a charm.

Ron

If I could offer a few tips...use hotter water, like 185-190F. You want to get the grain bed to 170. You don't need to stir so hard. Stir thoroughly, not violently. No need to vorlauf so much...just get the chunks out. Waiddaminnit, I see you're using a false bottom...those generally need more vorlauf than a braid. Just remember that the wort doesn't need to be crystal clear and that a few grain chunks in the kettle don't matter.
 
If you use the right braid, there's no need for the sock and vorlauf shouldn't take more than 30 seconds.

Apparently I don't have the right one. Would you have a source for the right braid?

Here's what mine looks like:


tun2.jpg
 

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Yeah, that's a Bazooka. I tried one, but it didn't work as well as hose braid. What you want is Lasco brand (part number 10-0121 or 10-0321). I get them at my local hardware store, but Amazon carries them also. Also, if you ever have to replace your cooler, I'd recommend a rectangular one, rather than the tall square you have now. I find rectangular easier to use becasue the opening is bigger and the grain bed shallower, making stirring easier.
 
If I could offer a few tips...use hotter water, like 185-190F. You want to get the grain bed to 170. You don't need to stir so hard. Stir thoroughly, not violently. No need to vorlauf so much...just get the chunks out. Waiddaminnit, I see you're using a false bottom...those generally need more vorlauf than a braid. Just remember that the wort doesn't need to be crystal clear and that a few grain chunks in the kettle don't matter.

That's the problem with a lot of the resources (books, articles, etc.). They said batch sparge at 168 degrees, so that's what I heated my water to. Same with fermentation temp. Ferment at 68, so that's where I put my ferementer, in a 68 degree room. :smack:
 
That's the problem with a lot of the resources (books, articles, etc.). They said batch sparge at 168 degrees, so that's what I heated my water to. Same with fermentation temp. Ferment at 68, so that's where I put my ferementer, in a 68 degree room. :smack:

Yeah, I know the feeling! That's why I try to be very specific. I think we've all been your position at some time! And some of it, like sparge temp, also comes from plain inaccurate info that gets repeated so often it becomes truth.
 
Yeah, that's a Bazooka. I tried one, but it didn't work as well as hose braid. What you want is Lasco brand (part number 10-0121 or 10-0321). I get them at my local hardware store, but Amazon carries them also. Also, if you ever have to replace your cooler, I'd recommend a rectangular one, rather than the tall square you have now. I find rectangular easier to use becasue the opening is bigger and the grain bed shallower, making stirring easier.

I'm not understanding something. Those part numbers are for braided hose connections whose purpose is to connect water supplies. Since they won't let water out, they won't let wort in.

So how do you get them to work?
 
I'm not understanding something. Those part numbers are for braided hose connections whose purpose is to connect water supplies. Since they won't let water out, they won't let wort in.

So how do you get them to work?

As explained at www.dennybrew.com, you cut the ends off, remove the hose from inside the braid, and use the braid.

"For the mashtun, you’ll need a cooler. I prefer the rectangular ones. The large top opening makes it easier to stir the mash than a round cooler does. Since grain bed depth makes practically no difference in batch sparging, one of the main reasons people use the round coolers is nullified. The rectangular ones are also cheaper. You’ll also need a rubber bung for a minikeg, some 1/2 inch ODx3/8 inch ID food grade vinyl tubing long enough to reach from whatever you set your cooler on to the bottom of your kettle PLUS 6 inches, an inline nylon valve, and a length of water supply line with a stainless steel braid for a jacket, and 3 hose clamps. The length of the water supply line doesn’t really matter. I use one that’s long enough to run the length of the cooler, but my experiments have shown that shorter ones seem to work as well. Feel free to substitute parts if you’d like something a little snazzier. The only really crucial piece of the whole setup is the stainless hose braid, so if you want to put a fancy ball valve or something else on your mashtun, go for it!
NOTE: The minikeg bung fits snugly into the hole left from removing the drain in most of the 48-54 qt. coolers I’ve checked. If the fit is loose, or you’re worried about leakage, apply some food grade silicone sealant on the flange before inserting the bung into the cooler. Be creative!

Step by Step

1.) Remove the spigot from the cooler. Usually, there’s a nut on the inside of the cooler holding the spigot on. Unscrew that and the spigot should pop right out.
2.) Remove the plastic insert from the hole in the minikeg bung, and insert the bung into the spigot hole, from the inside of the cooler. The beveled edge of the bung goes in first, and the flange of the bung should end up flush with the cooler wall.
3.) Cut off a 6 inch piece of the vinyl tubing and, from the inside of the cooler, insert it into the hole in the minikeg bung. Let a couple inches of tubing protrude from each side of the cooler.
4.) Cut the threaded fittings off the water supply line (I use a hatchet). Pull the tubing out from the braid, leaving you with a hollow length of hose braid. Flatten the last inch or so of one end of the braid. Fold it over on itself 3 times to seal the end. Squeeze the fold with a pair of pliers to crimp it closed.
5.) Slip a hose clamp over the end of the braid, and slip the braid over the end of the vinyl tubing INSIDE the cooler. Tighten the clamp until snug, but don’t squeeze the tubing shut! photos 2nd row #2 and #3
6.) Insert one end of the valve into the tubing on the outside of the cooler and secure it with a hose clamp. Slip another hose clamp over the end of the long piece of tubing, connect the tubing to the output side of the valve, and secure with the hose clamp.


That’s it! You’ve built your Cheap ‘n’ Easy mash/lauter tun! Now, let’s brew some beer!"
 
As explained at www.dennybrew.com, you cut the ends off, remove the hose from inside the braid, and use the braid.

"For the mashtun, you’ll need a cooler. I prefer the rectangular ones. The large top opening makes it easier to stir the mash than a round cooler does. Since grain bed depth makes practically no difference in batch sparging, one of the main reasons people use the round coolers is nullified. The rectangular ones are also cheaper. You’ll also need a rubber bung for a minikeg, some 1/2 inch ODx3/8 inch ID food grade vinyl tubing long enough to reach from whatever you set your cooler on to the bottom of your kettle PLUS 6 inches, an inline nylon valve, and a length of water supply line with a stainless steel braid for a jacket, and 3 hose clamps. The length of the water supply line doesn’t really matter. I use one that’s long enough to run the length of the cooler, but my experiments have shown that shorter ones seem to work as well. Feel free to substitute parts if you’d like something a little snazzier. The only really crucial piece of the whole setup is the stainless hose braid, so if you want to put a fancy ball valve or something else on your mashtun, go for it!
NOTE: The minikeg bung fits snugly into the hole left from removing the drain in most of the 48-54 qt. coolers I’ve checked. If the fit is loose, or you’re worried about leakage, apply some food grade silicone sealant on the flange before inserting the bung into the cooler. Be creative!

Step by Step

1.) Remove the spigot from the cooler. Usually, there’s a nut on the inside of the cooler holding the spigot on. Unscrew that and the spigot should pop right out.
2.) Remove the plastic insert from the hole in the minikeg bung, and insert the bung into the spigot hole, from the inside of the cooler. The beveled edge of the bung goes in first, and the flange of the bung should end up flush with the cooler wall.
3.) Cut off a 6 inch piece of the vinyl tubing and, from the inside of the cooler, insert it into the hole in the minikeg bung. Let a couple inches of tubing protrude from each side of the cooler.
4.) Cut the threaded fittings off the water supply line (I use a hatchet). Pull the tubing out from the braid, leaving you with a hollow length of hose braid. Flatten the last inch or so of one end of the braid. Fold it over on itself 3 times to seal the end. Squeeze the fold with a pair of pliers to crimp it closed.
5.) Slip a hose clamp over the end of the braid, and slip the braid over the end of the vinyl tubing INSIDE the cooler. Tighten the clamp until snug, but don’t squeeze the tubing shut! photos 2nd row #2 and #3
6.) Insert one end of the valve into the tubing on the outside of the cooler and secure it with a hose clamp. Slip another hose clamp over the end of the long piece of tubing, connect the tubing to the output side of the valve, and secure with the hose clamp.


That’s it! You’ve built your Cheap ‘n’ Easy mash/lauter tun! Now, let’s brew some beer!"

If I remember correctly, pulling the tube out of the braid was nigh impossible (chinese finger trick effect). It was necessary to hold the braid and PUSH the tubing through it, letting the braid compress and increase in diameter.
 
I add sparge water mix well for about a min then allow to sit for 10 -15min with a few extra stirs. I take a quick gravity measurement with a refractometer with each stir to see if the gravity has stopped increasing or is close to predictions. I use the braukaiser batch sparge simulator to get an estimate on the running. http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparge_and_Party_Gyle_Simulator
 
If I remember correctly, pulling the tube out of the braid was nigh impossible (chinese finger trick effect). It was necessary to hold the braid and PUSH the tubing through it, letting the braid compress and increase in diameter.

Unlike a finger-trap where you'll only get it off in the "pulling" direction ;) the tubing can be removed in either direction.
Just need to "inch worm" it along, bunching up the braid, shove the tubing until it binds, and repeat...

Cheers!
 
If I remember correctly, pulling the tube out of the braid was nigh impossible (chinese finger trick effect). It was necessary to hold the braid and PUSH the tubing through it, letting the braid compress and increase in diameter.

Unlike a finger-trap where you'll only get it off in the "pulling" direction ;) the tubing can be removed in either direction.
Just need to "inch worm" it along, bunching up the braid, shove the tubing until it binds, and repeat...

Cheers!

Vice grips and dish soap help a lot
 

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