Help - Water, Phenolic, Tannins, PH

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

rmiranda

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
22
Reaction score
3
Location
Seal Beach
I have been improving my beers, but now it seems I hit a wall. I have narrowed my problem down to an odd taste that I think results from my water.

The Taste
When I drink my beer, I get a biter taste that is not from hops. I also feel like it leaves an odd aftertaste and almost covers my taste buds with a light film.

My Conclusion
After research, I found this might be due to a high PH level. I use a filter on my tap water that has a PH level of 8.2. According to Beer Smith, a high PH level in the mash causes extraction of too many tannins resulting in this off flavor.

What I Did
I brewed two batches this week. The first was a Mexican Lager, which should easily expose any flaws. I also brewed a Double IPA, because I love IPAs. First, I cleaned the crap out of all my equipment before using it. I also used acid and PH strips to make sure that my sparge water was between 5.2 and 5.6 (by the way, I do batch sparging and get 65% efficiency). I also added 2 grams of salt and 1 gram of gypsum to the mash so that my water is "balanced" (according to beersmith).

My Water
Screen shot of the profile is attached to this post (somewhere).

What I Hope
I hope my beer comes out phenomenal and clear of this off flavor.

My Question
Is my diagnosis and/or treatment correct?

Screen Shot 2016-09-24 at 10.10.31 AM.png
 
What was your mash pH? While it's important to reduce the alkalinity of the sparge water, the main contributor will be the mash pH. You alkalinity is high, and needs to be reduced either with diluting with RO or distilled water or acid to the mash, and/or both.
 
I was experiencing the same issue. Switched to using RO water and the Water Primer, so far my beers have been a lot better. I'm no expert but perhaps it was my water which is high in alkalinity, even bringing the PH down to proper levels I would get a harsh finish which like you described was not from the hops.

I bought a carbon filter when I first started but wish I would have just bought the RO system from the beginning. The carbon filter was around $35 bucks, the RO system with a carbon filter ran around $65. Small price to pay for better beer and not dealing with water jugs.
 
I agree with Yooper. Your alkalinity is high. A tap filter doesn't remove anything. It may make your water taste better. It possibly removes chlorine depending on the flow rate. It doesn't remove Ca, Mg, Na, SO4 or reduce alkalinity.

A dark beer with a good amount of roasted malts may bring your mash pH in range but a pale ale or any lighter beer, your pH is probably too high especially if you aren't adding CaCl or Gypsum.
 
What was your mash pH? While it's important to reduce the alkalinity of the sparge water, the main contributor will be the mash pH. You alkalinity is high, and needs to be reduced either with diluting with RO or distilled water or acid to the mash, and/or both.

My PH is 8.2 and I added acid. Acid brought it down to 5.2.
 
The pH of your tap water isn't important. We are focused on alkalinity of the water source and its impact on the mash. During the mash you want a pH between 5.2 and 5.6. For IPAs, most seem to like 5.4. You need to download a calculator like brun water to estimate how much acid you need to hit your targeted pH. The water volume, water source and grain bill will impact your mash pH, so it's important to utilize a calculator.
 
In addition to the Alkalinity/mash pH issue.... You seem to be adding a lot of sodium to your beer. I would suggest relying primarily on CaCl and Gypsum as your two primary salts to add. Perhaps some epsom salt, and maybe a bit of table salt.... but that should be pretty minimal the vast majority of time.
 
My water has twice the hc03 as yours. Even after making PH adjustments with acid malt in my mash and acids and salts in my sparge and hitting PH numbers the astringent mouthfeel and taste remained. It wasnt until I diluted my water and got the hc03 below 80 that I got rid of it. Try diluting and adding calcium chloride etc to bring mineral levels back up if these last batches arent the solution.
 
I agree with the previous poster that you have too much Sodium. I wouldn't add any table salt at all. Sodium is not a necessary mineral at all for brewing or yeast health. It's not clear from your post as to what type of filter you are using and when you are taking your pH readings. Your mash should be between 5.2 and 5.6 once you have mixed all your grains in. The pH of your mash water is really not the critical thing, it's how it reacts once your grain is mixed in. Also, you should at least be using an activated carbon filter on your brewing water to get out chlorine before you brew. Chlorine can cause off-flavors in your beer. Your sparge water does not need to be have such a low pH. A 6.0 pH is fine for your sparge water and it can be even higher depending on how much buffering capacity your brewing water has. You don't mention what kind of acid you are using, but if you are using lactic acid to get your mash and sparge pH down that low, you may be using enough for the lactic flavor to be perceptible. I would suggest getting your tap water tested to see what the mineral makeup is, then you can use the tools in BeerSmith to make the proper adjustments.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top