Can anyone tell me if this is oxidation?

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fedebrin

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Ok, so this is my third brew so far. First one was an extract, second an American Wheat Ale and this third one a Kolsch. All ordered from N. Brewer.

Understand the color is supposed to be a very light one but came out with this brownish hue.

The mash PH / times and the original gravity were all excellent but I believe the main culprit might have been splashing the wort to cool it down (along with a copper coil) when the temp was high

Unfortunately I did not take any pictures before other than the first gravity reading and the color was ok. It seems to have turned that way during the first stage.

In terms of flavor I noticed it much more hoppy than what I would have expected from a Kolsch. Other than that it is ok!

I've read a lot about the taste of wet cardboard when oxidation happens but who has ever tasted wet cardboard???

Any help will be most appreciated!

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1473986243.743102.jpg

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1473986258.570371.jpg
 
Not hot side aeration...if you taste a "wet cardborad" off flavor you will not question why its described as such. Extract tends to be darker than all-grain so that might be part of it, you still have a lot of suspended solids in your beer so that is also making it appear much darker than what it will look like when it is clear. It might also be related to how long you boiled your extract for.
 
Thanks for you answer but this one was an all grain and respected all the time and temp of the mash and the PH was on point
 
You can pay as much attention to the mash as you want, but a hazy kolsch will always look darker than it should. It needs some fining.

+1 to posting the recipe. Curious what went in it.
 
MASH INGREDIENT: 9 lbs German Pilsner
Water used was spring water diluted 50%-50% with distilled.
Mash was a bit thick as the mash tun I have have is a 5 gallon.


BOIL:

Hops used: 1 oz. Tradition (60 min) & 1 oz. Hersbrucker (30 min).
Added teaspoon of Irish moss for the last 10 minutes.
Protein separation was excellent therefore not sure why it came out so cloudy.

OG Target: 1.048
As per file, reading is 1.040 at 108° F

File_000.jpg


File_000 (1).jpg
 
That PH meter looks like one of those $12 units.I bought one of those and used it once. It didn't hold calibration.I adjusted PH according the meter and ruined my beer.One of the only beers I've ever dumped. Never used it again
 
Even the OG sample looks to have a hint of that brownish color going on... Hard to imagine that was 100% Pilsner, unless you boiled the ever loving crap out of it for too long and got some kettle carmelization as a result.

One thing I've noticed whenever I've attempted a kolsch is that the yeast tends to take forever to drop out completely. The color it is now and the color it'll likely be after sitting in the fridge for 3 or 4 more weeks are two totally different things.
 
That original looks extremely dark for a 100% pilsner malt recipe!!! Hot side oxidation will produce a darker wort/beer than a low oxygen brew, however in general beers with hot side oxidation would be the default that you are comparing to. Post fermentation oxidation will cause a darkening of a beer, but normally over a couple of weeks.

They hydrometer reading looks more like I expect from a Kolsch immediately following fermentation. I find that Kolsch yeast generally needs a couple weeks of cold conditioning to clear up completely.

In the picture below there are two of my Kolsch's that have the same recipe. 75% German Pilsner 25% Wheat Malt. The one on the left had been on tap for a couple months, the one on the right was just finished carbing and was poured from the brite tank. After about a month of cold storage it will look like the one one the left.

If you can I'd store for a while and see what happens. If it clears then it is just yeast..... if it gets darker than you have a post fermentation oxidation issues.

2016-08-18 17.47.40.jpg
 
+2 on posting then bill. I don't too much care about the hops that were added because you're concern is oxidation and color. Also from what I keep hearing from the pros, when it comes to home brewing hot side aeration is kind of hard to accomplish. They've said that you'd have to put a paint stirrer on a drill and whip the crap out of it to make a difference. They'd also added that with a good fermentation program that the yeast will take care of any issues. You said something about wet cardboard, as the person above stated, it is straight up like wet cardboard. Oxidation, so I hear, can create other flavors also. The only other one I can pick out is the sherry flavor like you might find in a barleywine or RIS. I hear there are other flavors it gives off but I don't know them yet. I also agree that this beer looks super cloudy for a Kolsch or any beer for that matter. More time in a fermenter, 6-10 days cold crashing, and/or post fermentation finnings go a long way in helping with appearance. If you do end up finning with gelatin or super Kleer you need to have the ability to keep it colder than you would serve it. One other thing, I think you can create a darker beer by boiling it harder, but I can't guarantee this is correct.

Grain bill please.
 
The grain bill was supposedly 100% Pilsner Malt but I am doubting that now... Wondering if Northern Brewer mixed some other grains incorrectly... Also the grains were already milled for 2 months but kept in a dry and cool form. Wondering if this contributed to some form of oxidation during mashing.
 
Was the wort dark when it was draining out of the lautertun?
Mash darkens during saccarification and during maillard, but not to the point that it drastically changes the color of the wort. Pils malt should produce golden-yellow wort. By chance, the malt wasn't Weyermann's Pils dark floor malt? Although it is Pils malt, it will create a wort color closer to Oktoberfest.
I use only Pils malt and the tri-decoction method and the 1st decoction is boiled for an hour and the color of the final product is much brighter than in infusion method produced beer using the same grain bill. When mash is boiled protein gum is reduced which produces cleaner and clearer wort.
What led you to believe that excellent protein separation occurred? Was a proteinase rest used?
If good protein separation occurred, there would have been whitish flocks floating around in the hydrometer sample and as the sample cools the flocks will settle to the bottom leaving the sample clear and bright.
Some hydrometers are calibrated at 60F, the gravity would have increased at calibration temperature.
Hot side aeration can occur during the rest period, especially when hot water is splashed into the tun and grain dumped into it. The term is LODO and brew masters work diligently to ensure that oxidation doesn't occur during mashing. Boiling the brewing water removes dissolved oxygen. Wort at 140F absorbs the highest amount of air than at any other temperature.

Take a look at recipes on Weyermann's site. They are nice people to deal with and they are eager to offer assistance and to answer questions. Their recipe for Kolsch is different than recipes taken from computer generated recipes. If the recipe has been removed from their site, e-mail them and ask for the recipe. NB sells their malt, it is a little more expensive but the malt is high quality and a data sheet is available for the malt on line. E-mail the lot number to Weyermann or use the on-line program and they will tell you all about the malt.

I think that you did pretty good for being the third batch of beer.
 
Sounds like this was a kit? If its darker and hoppier than what you would expect from a kolsch, then sounds like you may have gotten an Amber Ale recipe kit.

Have you contacted NB? They might be willing to send you another kit if you got the wrong one...
 
There is no way this beer is hoppy whatsoever with a 60 min and 30 min addition. Not even remotely. Bitterness, sure. But hop flavour? Not a chance. There is also no feasible way that grain bill is only pilsner.
 
What temp did you ferment at? Before I had temperature controlled ferment I did an all grain kolsch, very light wort but during fermentation it got dark and had some off flavors that could be perceived as "hoppy". Never really understood why it would darken it. I have done the same recipe under controlled temp and it didn't darken (same kolsch yeast) and it turned out perfect color and taste.

***my memory has been refreshed. On another occasion when I first upsized to 10gallons but only had 5 gallon temp controlled conical I brewed 10g kolsch put 5 in temp controlled and 5 in a carbon at room temp as an experiment. Same results as above. Temp controlled was clear and delicious and room temp one was less desirable flavor and darker in color. I'll look for a picture I think I may have taken a side by side.
 
I may get crap for this but:

Its not hot side aeration. That's a boogy man and doesn't exist [emoji16]

and oxidation is a slow process unless you're bubbling pure O2 through your beer.

More likely you're grain just wasn't what you thought it was, or you may have scorched your mash or your wort.
 
I'm gonna take this an other way.

I've had of my beers oxidize. Both times it had to do with how I transferred to my bottling bucket. Both beers stayed bitter but they lost all the floral/nice hop flavors.

What was your process for packing? And you say the beer taste like all hops and no malt, can you pull out the actual hop varieties you used of is it just bitter?

I think it's post fermentation oxidation.
 
Assuming NB Didn't mess anything up, I'm with TurnipGreen. How did you rack to the bottling bucket? My first couple beers I just poured 'carefully' (hint: you can't pour a bucket carefully) into the bucket, and they were a bit darker and tasted kinda-dead
 
Ok, almost 3 months after being in the bottle seems that the color is back to a normal golden hue

Flavor is still strongly bitter though

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1481076354.974247.jpg

I am currently brewing a Golden Monkey clone which is now in the second stage and seems to be developing that same color... will post more details on that as I suspect it can be oxidation from over pitching
 
That original looks extremely dark for a 100% pilsner malt recipe!!! Hot side oxidation will produce a darker wort/beer than a low oxygen brew, however in general beers with hot side oxidation would be the default that you are comparing to. Post fermentation oxidation will cause a darkening of a beer, but normally over a couple of weeks.

They hydrometer reading looks more like I expect from a Kolsch immediately following fermentation. I find that Kolsch yeast generally needs a couple weeks of cold conditioning to clear up completely.

In the picture below there are two of my Kolsch's that have the same recipe. 75% German Pilsner 25% Wheat Malt. The one on the left had been on tap for a couple months, the one on the right was just finished carbing and was poured from the brite tank. After about a month of cold storage it will look like the one one the left.

If you can I'd store for a while and see what happens. If it clears then it is just yeast..... if it gets darker than you have a post fermentation oxidation issues.

Ok, almost 3 months after being in the bottle seems that the color is back to a normal golden hue

Flavor is still strongly bitter though

View attachment 379657

I am currently brewing a Golden Monkey clone which is now in the second stage and seems to be developing that same color... will post more details on that as I suspect it can be oxidation from over pitching

See above, everything I have done with this yeast takes a while to clear. If it was oxidation it would not have cleared back up.

Oxidation from overpitching????
 
ok, I have in the 2nd stage fermentor a Golden Monkey clone that I brewed on Nov. 12th (http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/396832/golden-monkey-clone)

I thought that it was giving me the same problem with the color but after doing a better color check (not through the fermentor) it is not the case, see below comparissons of color

Right before pitching:
View attachment 379758

Ater 1 week in the second stage fermentor:
View attachment 379759

Color though is not as Golden as I would expect it though:
View attachment 379760

Since this is the 2nd time I used a yeast starter I incorrectly believed the oxidation could have come from a quicker yeast autolysis due to over pitching (I did a 2 L starter with 2 vials of WLP550)

I understand this wouldn't have been possible since I left it on the first stage fermentor for only 2 week and at the end I have not experienced any color changes.

If the other beer has cleared over time we can assume that it was suspended yeast that was given it this brownish color?

Question is then: What is the right procedure? To have the color condition on the bottle or in the second fermentor?

This is the schedule of the Golden Monkey clone (this time I made sure I took a lot of notes and pics):
Note I did the fermentation at 64 degrees F in a wine cooler

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1481169980.360275.jpg

thanks all for your posts
 
Did you add any salts to the distilled water that you mashed with?
That would make a huge difference in certain chemical reactions during the brewing process.
 

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