Loss of hop aroma followed by astringency

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Tieren

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G'day all HBT members

Long time follower, first time poster!

Just want to say how much I love this forum. Basically every question I've ever had has been answered by previous posts and the level of knowledge and helpful advice is amazing.

So far I have brewed less than 20 all grain batches with varying success.

The main problem I have been finding is astringency in my beers. I know this is a topic that has been covered many times before, and I have read as many posts as I can find, but the problem keeps reoccurring.

Here are the details of my latest brew:
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 21.0 l
Boil Size: 27.6 l
Boil Time: 60 min
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Efficiency: 79.00 %

Mash Ingredients
3.25 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) 73.9 %
0.70 kg Munich Malt 15.9 %
0.45 kg Caramel Malt - 60L Grain 3 10.2 %

Boil Ingredients
3.0 g Simcoe [11.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min 4.3 IBUs
1.00 Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
11.5 g Cascade [7.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min 5.0 IBUs
10.0 g Amarillo [8.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min 4.9 IBUs
6.0 g Citra [14.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min 5.1 IBUs

Steeped Hops @ 63C
23.0 g Cascade [7.30 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min 0 IBUs
20.0 g Amarillo [8.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min 0 IBUs
12.0 g Citra [14.10 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 15 min 0 IBUs

Fermentation
1.0 pkg US-05

Dry Hop
30.0 g Amarillo [8.20 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
30.0 g Cascade [7.30 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
20.0 g Citra [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

I fermented for three weeks at 18C in a single bucket fermented. I didn't transfer to a secondary.

This brew was a little experimental, as I hadn't attempted a hopstand before, but it seemed to go well. I chose 63C to avoid vaporising the hop oils.

I realise the IBUs are very low. I was aiming more for hop aroma. I have previously brewed the same beer with about 35 IBUs.

All the hops I used were fresh pellets from a vacuum sealed pack.

I bottle condition my beers.

I found the hop aroma to be wonderful and the beer was dry, crisp with a nice malt background when I tried them after about 5 days of bottle conditioning. But now after nearly two weeks, the hop aroma is gone and the astringency very noticeable.

Would love any advice you can offer.

Cheers

Grant
 
Could be caused by several things. How's your mash process look? Could be the water your using. Tap, bottled spring, or distilled or RO water? Water chemistry can make a pretty significant difference. Not an expert, but some detail on these topics might help lead to some possible solutions.
 
Could be caused by several things. How's your mash process look? Could be the water your using. Tap, bottled spring, or distilled or RO water? Water chemistry can make a pretty significant difference. Not an expert, but some detail on these topics might help lead to some possible solutions.

I'm mashing in a 40l cooler at 67C. It loses about 0.5-1C after an hour. I mash at 3l/kg. Then single batch sparge with about 80C water to reach a temp of 74C.

I use distilled water with salt additions based on Bru'n Water's "Amber Bitter" water profile.
 
I bought into the "water is the last thing to worry about" advise and drank alot of astringent beers. My brews were clear with a lacy head and tasted great on the front end then on the back end bang tea bag in the throat. Turned out to be too high a ph during sparge. Solved 2 ways 1. BIAB with acid malt or 2. Acidify sparge water. I drink tasty beer now! YMMV
 
I bought into the "water is the last thing to worry about" advise and drank alot of astringent beers. My brews were clear with a lacy head and tasted great on the front end then on the back end bang tea bag in the throat. Turned out to be too high a ph during sparge. Solved 2 ways 1. BIAB with acid malt or 2. Acidify sparge water. I drink tasty beer now! YMMV

Thanks so much for your comment!

I must admit, water chemistry was one of the last areas I have learned about in the "rabbit hole" of home brewing, and have paid attention to my sparge pH especially with astringency problems, yet the problem remains.

This particular beer had a (single batch) sparge pH after 15 minutes of about 5.2 and my pre boil pH was about 5.19. Is this OK?

I didn't add any acid to the sparge.

I was adding salts, but they were consistent with my mash salts, minus the salts with carbonates.
 
Sounds right to me. How much salts are you adding? Too much of some of that stuff can give off flavors. The minerals here in the TX Hill Country are really high I dont need to add salts, I have to cut my water in half and acidify. Dave Millers homebrewing book is where I think I saw water addition limits.
 
Your mash temps appear okay, I usually get my mashes up to the 168 to 170 area for sparging and try my best not to go above 170. I would agree that water chemistry seems to be the most likely culprit. 5.2 is fine for mash pH, there is a little flexibility in the ideal 5.2 to 5.6 range. I've brewed tons of beer that I mashed in the 5.1 and 5.7 area and they were great (some of them were among my best).

In my experience chloride/sulfate ratios lopsided towards chloride can cause loss of hop aroma and character (including bitterness, but not just that). Low calcium can also affect how pronounced the hops are.
 
Thanks for your help.

I'll look more into redesigning my water profiles.

Also might try getting that mash pH a little higher.
 
I think I've found the problem.

Just did a pH test of the finished beer and it was around 3.8 pH.

That's too low, isn't it?

Why would this be?
 
3.8 is maybe a little on the low side of normal, but I still consider it normal. The yeast are pumping out that co2 which dissolves itself in the beer and a fraction of it forms carbonic acid which is why the pH of beer is low. This effect would be strong in your beer since there were no carbonates in the water to buffer. Still tho, nothing wrong with a final pH of 3.8. Helps preserve your beer too! :D
 
3.8 is maybe a little on the low side of normal, but I still consider it normal. The yeast are pumping out that co2 which dissolves itself in the beer and a fraction of it forms carbonic acid which is why the pH of beer is low. This effect would be strong in your beer since there were no carbonates in the water to buffer. Still tho, nothing wrong with a final pH of 3.8. Helps preserve your beer too! :D

I did have some carbonates in the mash, but not in the sparge.

I'll redesign my water profile and see how it comes out next time.

Thanks
 
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