Switching to all grain - fly sparging vs. batch sparging

So in addition to adding a keg system to my routine, I'm going to switch to all grain. I keep going back and forth between 5 gal and 10 gal coolers, but I typically don't brew very high gravity beers, so I think 5 gal will be fine. Here's my question; Should I be fly sparging or batch sparging? If I'm batch sparging, do I even need two coolers or can I get away with just one? Any help is appreciated.

If you batch sparge you only need one cooler.

Get the 10 gallon one though, you never know, you might want to do some high gravity brews in the future

If you do 5 gallon batches, you need a 10 gallon mash tun, at least. I built one from a rectangular 52qt (13 gallons) $25 Coleman Xtreme. It has the drain on the short end, which I prefer. If you want wheels, things change. I just lift with "brute" force.

Batch sparging is the easiest, most straightforward, fastest way. No need for fly sparging on small homebrew scale.

You don't need two coolers no matter which way you go. The second cooler is generally used as an HLT- a place to hold hot water. You can use a pot or some other vessel, with either method. While it can be more convenient to use gravity and the cooler, it's not necessary. Plenty of brewers use the "pitcher and colander on top of the mash" method of fly sparging!

Have you seen Denny Conn's website on all methods? It compares them, so you can see which would work best for you: http://www.dennybrew.com/

With a 5 gallon cooler, you can mash about a max of 12.5 pounds of grain. That's about a 1.065 beer, with average efficiency. You may want to go with the 10 gallon cooler just to have some options.

I tried both and I found that my beer was no better when I fly sparged than when I batch sparged. I now batch sparge.

If you batch sparge, you don't need a round cooler, a false bottom, or a sparge aperatus. You don't need to mash out or worry too much about your sparge water temp. Batch sparging takes much less time.

So...IMO batch sparge FTW!

This is Denny Conn's batch sparge instruction.

http://www.dennybrew.com/

Oh, I left out the fact that while my HERMS is "ideally suited to fly sparging", I usually batch sparge because it's faster and more convenient for me. I go back and forth, but usually batch sparge all of my batches. There is no advantage to either method- it's based on your equipment and personal preference.

You might want to give this show a listen. They go into quite a bit of detail about the two mashing options and the pros and cons of each.

Brew Strong

Fly sparge, batch sparge...how about no sparge lol

You will perhaps use $0.50 more grain, but the simplicity can't be beat...and a viable option IMO not to hastily overlook.

I have never fly sparged in 30 years of home brewing....unless you count pouring a small amount of water over a grain bag to reach pre boil volume.

I used to do no sparge but the efficiency was lacking and unpredictable. Batch sparging is really easy and the way to go in my opinion.

Whichever method you use - you'll make good beer. Honest.

NOW - the most important thing - buy big. You might just make low ABV "small beers" now... But what about a year from now?

5-gallon cooler is just way too small. You'll outgrow it incredibly quickly doing 5-gal batches.

A 10-gallon cooler is ok.

I prefer the Coleman Xtreme http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Xtreme-50-Quart-Wheeled-Cooler/23374667

That gets you 12.5 gallons of mash tun for $30.00. You can pickup a bulkhead and valve from bargainfittings.com or brewershardware.com ... Super cheap. Super easy.

The bulkhead, valve, 90 degree elbow, hose barb, and extra gasket only cost $33 from bargainfittings.com ... http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=47&product_id=252


One other thing...

Get about 3 yards of Voile fabric from Joann Fabrics. Use it to line your mash tun. Now you'll never have stuck sparges. ... (just lift up on the voile fabric)... $5-$6/yd - so about $18.

http://www.joann.com/home-decor-sol...hite-solid-voile/8139412.html#q=voile&start=2


This is called BIAB in a cooler. It is the singular BEST and easiest setup that I have found. You don't need a false bottom. You don't need a pickup tube. You don't need a manifold. Just a cooler, the fabric, and a bulkhead/valve.

I use this setup and it works flawlessly. I batch sparge with this setup.

My efficiency brew house efficiency is always >75%.

Another batch sparge'er here. I sometimes think about trying fly sparging just to try it but after thinking through the logistics I put that thought to the side. My brew days are long enough as it is...

A beverage cooler or a rectangular cooler plus a bag is very simple and effective way to AG if you don't feel like building a cooler, shameless plug red face

Never tried the 3 yards of voile in the cooler, just gives me visions of a bad Stevie Nicks video lol.

Just in case you're wondering about doing step mashes with a cooler mash tun.

I do step mashes in the kettle (triple ply bottom, induction plate), followed by a mash out, which may be essential to lock the wort profile down. I then dump the whole mash into the cooler mash tun for lautering and batch sparging.

While the tun drains into a large bucket I clean the kettle. As soon as the first runnings are done I start heating them, while the first (batch) sparge drains. They get added to the kettle, then on the 2nd sparge. So simple. I store my hot sparge water in a separate large kettle, but a bucket will be fine too.

I'm going to echo what a lot of others have said. I regret getting just a 5 gallon mash tun even though it's fine for 95% of the beers I make.

I read a nice comment recently that fly sparging will give much better efficiency if it's done perfectly. I'd rather throw in an extra pound of grain and admit that I'm never going to be perfect.

Happywanderer said:

Whichever method you use - you'll make good beer. Honest.

...This is called BIAB in a cooler. It is the singular BEST and easiest setup that I have found. You don't need a false bottom. You don't need a pickup tube. You don't need a manifold. Just a cooler, the fabric, and a bulkhead/valve.

I use this setup and it works flawlessly. I batch sparge with this setup.

My efficiency brew house efficiency is always >75%.

Click to expand...

+1. I use a bag. I am usually in the mid to high 80(s). I call it Mash in a Bag (MIAB) because of the separate MLT and batch sparging difference from BIAB. Never a stuck lauter, easy cleanup, and nearly zero loss of wort to the MLT. I don't even Vorlauf anymore and never get a speck of grain in the kettle. 10x better that a toilet hose or bazooka tube. I actually had to reduce grain and water in Beersmith to get my numbers down to the recipe specs.

However, the bulkhead fitting from bargainfittings pulled thru the bulkhead so I got a wider SS washer and gasket from eBay.

wilserbrewer said:

gives me visions of a bad Stevie Nicks video lol.

Click to expand...

Ha... I lol'd

I fly sparge. It's what I've always done. I looked at what most breweries do, and tried to copy it. That being said, I have not batch sparked. I've thought about it, but I'm stubborn and like complicated. Batch sparking will save you up to about an hour on brew day (if you're fly sparking for 60 minutes or so). It will take a little extra grain to make up for a small efficiency loss, but if you buy your base malt by the 50 lbs sack you're probably looking at $1-2. Is recommend starting with batch sparking for the simplicity. You can always switch later. The down side to the fly sparking is that you have to monitor it to make sure you don't over sparge and get off flavors. Best of luck!

I batch sparge and fly sparge, but have been mostly fly sparging lately.
I found that running off really slow seems to help me hit my numbers; don't know if its just a coincidence or there's something to it, but I fly sparge with a pitcher and run off at the same time. Works for me, but maybe I'll batch sparge next time.

Go 10 gal cooler, you'll be happier in the future when u wish you had a larger cooler.
I make 10 gal batches, and I've got only two vessels to brew with. A 10 gal cooler and a 15 gal keggle.
Heat water in keggle, transfer to cooler.
Dump in grains and mash rest. Stir every 20 min.
Heat up sparge water in keggle.
Vorlauf, drain cooler into bucket.
Add entire volume sparge water to cooler, stir, sit for 5 min
Vorlauf, drain into bucket.
Add buckets to keggle and proceed to boil.
It's that easy. No pumps, no hoses. My beer is phenomenal.
I have friends who tinker with fly sparging, go watch them add more time and stress to their brew day for no reason. Then go home and batch sparge.

Have recently switched to batch sparging. The vast majority of brewers out here in Sonoma County, CA (20+ breweries) batch sparge....their reasoning? "For the cost of a sack of grain I want that MT free, quickly, for the next batch"

helibrewer said:

Have recently switched to batch sparging. The vast majority of brewers out here in Sonoma County, CA (20+ breweries) batch sparge....their reasoning? "For the cost of a sack of grain I want that MT free, quickly, for the next batch"

Click to expand...

I hadn't really considered this on the pro level but this makes perfect sense; if I can get in another brew session for the same labour cost, that's close to paying for the extra grain right there.

When a nano or micro brew pub sells the beer for $5 a pint, or $12 a growler, the retail value of a 200 gallon batch is $2400 to $8000.

What's a sack, or even a half sack of grain compared to those numbers....

10 gallon cooler and batch sparge.

I set up mine for ease of use. Three tier sculpture. HLT on a turkey fryer burner drains into mash tun, batch sparge, drains into boil kettle. Boil kettle is high enough to drain into fermenter. I did get a great Craigslist deal on my 10 gallon pots, both for $100. Water heater braid in the mash tun, have never experienced a stuck sparge.

I have batch sparged 504 batches using the equipment you see at dennybrew.com. I have no desire to do it any other way.

I admit I have never fly sparged, but I see nothing but drawbacks to that method at the 5-10gal garage brew scale.

It almost seems like making shake-n-bake chicken by placing individual breadcrumbs on the meat rather than just dropping the meat in a bag full of crumbs and shaking it around. I can think of lots of other things I'd prefer to do with that hour.

mattdee1 said:

I admit I have never fly sparged, but I see nothing but drawbacks to that method at the 5-10gal garage brew scale.

It almost seems like making shake-n-bake chicken by placing individual breadcrumbs on the meat rather than just dropping the meat in a bag full of crumbs and shaking it around. I can think of lots of other things I'd prefer to do with that hour.

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That is a very good description. I like it. I still fly sparge because I feel like a badass. It is a pain.

I have both batch and fly sparged, and much prefer fly sparging. I like the added level of control.

What I don't get though is how y'all are saying that it's quicker to batch sparge. How so? If you think about it, the same volume of liquid needs to run through the MLT and be collected at the same rate, so how could the time differ? In fact, my experience has been that batch sparging is actually LONGER than fly sparging, because you have to vorlauf twice instead of just once. For example:

Fly Sparging:
- 10 minute vorlauf
- 40 minute sparge/lauter
-------------------------
50 minutes total


Batch Sparging:
- 10 minute vorlauf
- 20 minute lauter
- 10 minute vorlauf
- 20 minute lauter
---------------------
60 minutes total

Batch sparge:

Dump the water in the tun and stir like mad= 5 minutes.

Vorlauf about 2 qts= 5 minutes (probably less)

Drain tun= about 10 minutes (probably less)

I began fly sparging and did it that way for about 3 years and it served me well. Lately I've switched to batch sparging because the 45 minutes I save is worth the .002 higher gravity points I had fly sparging and it's just much easier.

CGVT said:

Batch sparge:

Dump the water in the tun and stir like mad= 5 minutes.

Vorlauf about 2 qts= 5 minutes (probably less)

Drain tun= about 10 minutes (probably less)

Click to expand...

You must get some awesome bed filtering. 2 qt vorlauf? Maybe I hold a higher level of clarity than most but I don't get anywhere close to clear until at least 2 gallons vorlaufed.

Also, you didn't account for the first runnings being drained. Isn't this the process for batch sparging:

Mash
Vorlauf
Lauter
Batch Sparge
Let sit/settle
Vorlauf
Lauter

If you're just dumping in your sparge volume right into the mash then that's not batch sparging, that's mashing out with no sparge.

MagicMatt said:

You must get some awesome bed filtering. 2 qt vorlauf? Maybe I hold a higher level of clarity than most but I don't get anywhere close to clear until at least 2 gallons vorlaufed.

Also, you didn't account for the first runnings being drained. Isn't this the process for batch sparging:

Mash
Vorlauf
Lauter
Batch Sparge
Let sit/settle
Vorlauf
Lauter

If you're just dumping in your sparge volume right into the mash then that's not batch sparging, that's mashing out with no sparge.

Click to expand...

No. Add water to make boil volume after first running are collected. That is batch sparge. Some do it in two (or more) water additions, most do it in one.

I don't consider first runnings as part of the sparge, but first runnings take about 10 minutes. (vorlauf and wide open flow)

For vorlauf, all you need to do is make sure that there is no grain in the wort. It only takes a quart or two for that to happen.

BTW, my beer is crystal clear.

From http://www.dennybrew.com/

Batch Sparging

Batch sparging is like partigyle brewing or the English method described in Palmer’s How to Brew, but instead of a separate beer being made from each runoff, the runoffs are combined into a single batch. In batch sparging, mashing is done at the normal ratio of anywhere from 1 to 1.3 qt./lb. After conversion, the sweet wort is recirculated as normal and the mashtun is completely drained as quickly as possible (NOTE:quick draining is a benefit, not a requirement, of batch sparging.� I recommend you start the recirculation with the valve just cracked open, to set the grain bed correctly.� After you return the vorlaufed portion to the mash tun, you can open the valve whatever amount works for your system), and an addition of sparge water is added. This is stirred into the mash, and after recirculation is once more drained as quickly as the system will allow. Sometimes, multiple batches are added if necessary or an additional infusion is made before the first runoff is begun. The advantages of batch sparging are no (or reduced) worries about pH because you’re not continually diluting the buffering power of the grains, inefficient lautering systems don’t really affect the extraction rate since the sugars from the grain are in solution, a mashout is seldom necessary (though may still be desirable) since the wort will be in the kettle more quickly and enzymes denatured by boiling, and extraction rates that range from slightly less to slightly more than fly sparging. The more inefficient your lautering system is for fly sparging, the bigger the gain in extraction you’ll see from batch sparging.

MagicMatt said:

I have both batch and fly sparged, and much prefer fly sparging. I like the added level of control.

What I don't get though is how y'all are saying that it's quicker to batch sparge. How so? If you think about it, the same volume of liquid needs to run through the MLT and be collected at the same rate, so how could the time differ? In fact, my experience has been that batch sparging is actually LONGER than fly sparging, because you have to vorlauf twice instead of just once. For example:

Fly Sparging:
- 10 minute vorlauf
- 40 minute sparge/lauter
-------------------------
50 minutes total


Batch Sparging:
- 10 minute vorlauf
- 20 minute lauter
- 10 minute vorlauf
- 20 minute lauter
---------------------
60 minutes total

Click to expand...

For me, it takes a total of 15 min. from the time I start my mash runoff til the time I finish my sparge runoff. Maybe like this...

vorlauf mash - 30 sec.-1 min.
run off mash - 5-7 min.
add sparge water and stir in - maybe 2-3 min.
vorlauf sparge - 30 sec.-1 min.
runoff sparge - 5 min.

MagicMatt said:

You must get some awesome bed filtering. 2 qt vorlauf? Maybe I hold a higher level of clarity than most but I don't get anywhere close to clear until at least 2 gallons vorlaufed.

Also, you didn't account for the first runnings being drained. Isn't this the process for batch sparging:

Mash
Vorlauf
Lauter
Batch Sparge
Let sit/settle
Vorlauf
Lauter

If you're just dumping in your sparge volume right into the mash then that's not batch sparging, that's mashing out with no sparge.

Click to expand...

If I have to vorlauf 2 qt. for a batch sparge, it's a lot. I seldom go over 1 qt. There is no let sit/settle.

Denny said:

For me, it takes a total of 15 min. from the time I start my mash runoff til the time I finish my sparge runoff. Maybe like this...

vorlauf mash - 30 sec.-1 min.
run off mash - 5-7 min.
add sparge water and stir in - maybe 2-3 min.
vorlauf sparge - 30 sec.-1 min.
runoff sparge - 5 min.

Click to expand...

Denny said:

If I have to vorlauf 2 qt. for a batch sparge, it's a lot. I seldom go over 1 qt. There is no let sit/settle.

Click to expand...

Yes. I probably vorlauf a cup or two at the most

I was giving conservative estimates for times. This is probably closer to how long it takes me, 15-20 mins

Denny said:

For me, it takes a total of 15 min. from the time I start my mash runoff til the time I finish my sparge runoff. Maybe like this...

vorlauf mash - 30 sec.-1 min.
run off mash - 5-7 min.
add sparge water and stir in - maybe 2-3 min.
vorlauf sparge - 30 sec.-1 min.
runoff sparge - 5 min.

Click to expand...

I'm even a bit faster, since I have a HERMS so don't vorlauf the mash.
I run off the first runnings with my pump- definitely less than 5 minutes.

I pump in the sparge water and stir well, same here as Denny, in maybe 2-3 minutes.

I turn on the pump, and put the end of the hose back in the MLT for about 10 seconds, to vorlauf, and then pump the runnings into the kettle.

That's probably 12 minutes, tops. To fly sparge my 11 gallon batches (12.5 gallons in the BK) would take about an hour or so.

I used to go back and forth and continuous sparge about half the time, but now I don't even do that. It saves me some time, without much difference in efficiency and the quality of the final producy is the same. What's not to love?!?!

Everyone sharing their perspectives and nobody getting offended? This will not do.

You're all wrong...everybody knows the best beer comes from extract...he should stick to that

Cheers!

I guess I didn't realize y'all were vorlaufing so quickly. No matter how I sparge I vorlauf until there are no particles at all in the wort coming out. That takes about 10 minutes at a slow flow rate of about 1gal/5min.

I could see if you were saying that you only vorlauf for 1 minute but with the valve wide open, that would explain the decrease in time but I would suspect that you'd end up with roughly the same amount of liquid. You say you vorlauf for 1 minute.....idk about your system but my MLT wide open for 1 minute yields over 2 gallons. So I'm still not sure how y'all are doing it with just a few cups.

+1 for the ~15min timeframe with batch sparging.

As for "vorlauf," I find that step so trivial in the homebrew workflow that, to me, it almost seems silly to use a fancy name to describe it... but I guess traditions die hard.

Crack the valve, fill a pitcher up half way (a quart, give or take), divert the tube to a collecting bucket (without shutting off the valve), and pour the beer back in the MT, finish draining. Takes seconds. Sure, a few stray particles probably tumble through, but it's not like I've got oatmeal coming out of the MT... and my beer is typically crystal clear, barring haze from dry hops.

MagicMatt said:

I guess I didn't realize y'all were vorlaufing so quickly. No matter how I sparge I vorlauf until there are no particles at all in the wort coming out. That takes about 10 minutes at a slow flow rate of about 1gal/5min.

I could see if you were saying that you only vorlauf for 1 minute but with the valve wide open, that would explain the decrease in time but I would suspect that you'd end up with roughly the same amount of liquid. You say you vorlauf for 1 minute.....idk about your system but my MLT wide open for 1 minute yields over 2 gallons. So I'm still not sure how y'all are doing it with just a few cups.

Click to expand...

I vorlauf with the valve just barely cracked, so it's a very slow flow rate. After I collect a qt. or 2, I return it to the mash tun and then open the valve full. Between the grain bed and the incredible filtering of the braid, I get wort free of particles very quickly.

Here's a video of my process....http://vid794.photobucket.com/albums/yy221/dennyconn/batchsparge.mp4