Electric conversion

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So, I have a 3.5 KW LWD element, and 5.5 KW LWD element. I was thinking about using the 5.5 in the HLT so that j could step the temperature faster, and heat strike water for back to back batches faster. The 3.5 would need about a half an hour to heat 14 gallons of wort to boil according to a calculator I used, so that's not really bad. Any thoughts for or against this plan?
 
3500w might be a little low to boil 14 gallons IME.

Your 30 minute calc include losses?

Might also be a tad weak on the boil, just guessing based in my observations.

How big is your kettle? Larger the kettle surface area, larger the heat loss.
 
3500w might be a little low to boil 14 gallons IME.

Your 30 minute calc include losses?

Might also be a tad weak on the boil, just guessing based in my observations.

How big is your kettle? Larger the kettle surface area, larger the heat loss.


I calculated at 85% as a guess. I was calculating from 170-210. Once the element is covered it can start heating up the BK as I sparge too. That wasn't accounted for since I don't have any clue about calculus. I have kegs for kettles. I'm ok with a few extra minutes to get to boil, so long as it boils. I'm not always boiling that much either. I only have batches that big when I'm doing 90 minute boils.
 
Are you limited to the 3.5 in the BK? I'd go bigger if not. You are right putting more power in the HLT. I have two 5.5's in mine. Waiting for water to heat is something I do not do.
 
Are you limited to the 3.5 in the BK? I'd go bigger if not. You are right putting more power in the HLT. I have two 5.5's in mine. Waiting for water to heat is something I do not do.


Agreed w above, 3.5 may be a little small, I now realize your using a keggle, they can tend to be energy hogs with the top and bottom rings, lots of mass and surface area on a keggle.
 
Basically, I didn't think ahead, when I bought a 5.5 and 3.5 KW elements. I'm trying to keep at the 75-80% rating of my 50 amp circuit. Now I see why so many use two 4.5 KW elements [emoji16]
 
You can't do any harm loading your wiring less but I do not think the "80% rule" applies to the systems most are building here. It applies to "continuous" loads that operate at full load for more than three hours. That just cannot happen unless your controller is malfunctioning and you would probably then notice your HLT boiling;)
 
You can't do any harm loading your wiring less but I do not think the "80% rule" applies to the systems most are building here. It applies to "continuous" loads that operate at full load for more than three hours. That just cannot happen unless your controller is malfunctioning and you would probably then notice your HLT boiling;)


It seems the code also covers water heaters below 150 gallons. That's essentially what this is. Also, if you're doing back to back batches there's a chance you will be running both elements full tilts simultaneously.
 
It seems the code also covers water heaters below 150 gallons. That's essentially what this is.

Maybe, but a water heater is an unattended appliance. If a tap were left on, it could run indefinitely. That is not the case with a brewery. I don't think any code official would consider a brewery to be a water heater.


doing back to back batches there's a chance you will be running both elements full tilts simultaneously.

Both full for 3 hours? Seems impossible.
 
Ischiavo has it right the 80% rule applies to continuous loads. If your worried about code do not hard wire the panel into the box. Hard wire it to an outlet and put a plug on your panel. Portable equipment is not looked at for code only the outlet and breaker box.

I run two 5500 watt elements on a 50 amp breaker. I'm right at 240v at the plug and even running back to back my AMP never get above 42. I see pulses of 42 but only for just a few minutes. I've never had the breaker trip. I was super paranoid when I installed the circuit. So, for the first three or four batches I'd run up into the attic and use my inferred thermometer to shoot the wire. At max blast (42 amps) I saw not difference between the wire and the ambient temp.
 
Ischiavo has is right the 80% rule applies to continuous loads. If your worried about code do not hard wire the panel into the box. Hard wire it to an outlet and put a plug on your panel. Portable equipment is not looked at for code only the outlet and breaker box.

I run two 5500 watt elements on a 50 amp breaker. I'm right at 240v at the plug and even running back to back my AMP never get above 42. I see pulses of 42 but only for just a few minutes. I've never had the breaker trip. I was super paranoid when I installed the circuit. So, for the first three or four batches I'd run up into the attic and use my inferred thermometer to shoot the wire. At max blast (42 amps) I saw not difference between the wire and the ambient temp.


I'm a little worried about the breaker. Built with DR Horton. In the last six months they've had to replace four breakers, and another one to be replaced this week. I'd be super pissed to have one pop mid brew. Thanks for clarifying the difference between the hard wired vs portable part. Also, the other reason I don't want to push the amps is that the breaker is in my garage, and the outlet is in the back yard, so I'm looking at probably 75' of wire already before I hit the 15' extension cord for the control panel. That is a decent run of wire.
 
I'm a little worried about the breaker. Built with DR Horton. In the last six months they've had to replace four breakers, and another one to be replaced this week. I'd be super pissed to have one pop mid brew. Thanks for clarifying the difference between the hard wired vs portable part. Also, the other reason I don't want to push the amps is that the breaker is in my garage, and the outlet is in the back yard, so I'm looking at probably 75' of wire already before I hit the 15' extension cord for the control panel. That is a decent run of wire.

Outside! Now you are talking big dollar wire. Outside means no nomex. 6 gauge XHHW wire is about 1 dollar a foot. Let's see 4 strands of 75 foot at 1 dollar a foot. Ouch! 300 in just wire add in the conduit and breaker. OUCH!

I've never seen a breaker go bad. I've had some overly sensitive ones but never a bad one. 4 in one breaker panel leads me to believe there is something else wrong with the panel. They better go play the lottery because their odds of winning are better then having 4 bad breakers.
 
Outside! Now you are talking big dollar wire. Outside means no nomex. 6 gauge XHHW wire is about 1 dollar a foot. Let's see 4 strands of 75 foot at 1 dollar a foot. Ouch! 300 in just wire add in the conduit and breaker. OUCH!



I've never seen a breaker go bad. I've had some overly sensitive ones but never a bad one. 4 in one breaker panel leads me to believe there is something else wrong with the panel. They better go play the lottery because their odds of winning are better then having 4 bad breakers.


The outlet is already run when they built the home. They probably were overly sensitive, but it's annoying to have them trip all the time. The wire they ran was Nomex. All wire is in the attic and internal walls until it penetrates the wall to the RV panel.
 
The outlet is already run when they built the home. They probably were overly sensitive, but it's annoying to have them trip all the time. The wire they ran was Nomex. All wire is in the attic and internal walls until it penetrates the wall to the RV panel.

Is it in the ground? If it is it's not to code. Nomex cannot be used in wet areas. Anything that touches the ground is considered a wet area. Anything outside that is unprotected or exposed to the elements is considered a wet area. If it is nomex that could be why they are tripping all the time.
 
Is it in the ground? If it is it's not to code. Nomex cannot be used in wet areas. Anything that touches the ground is considered a wet area. Anything outside that is unprotected or exposed to the elements is considered a wet area. If it is nomex that could be why they are tripping all the time.


Sorry, I wasn't clear about that. It was all the kitchen GFCI breakers tripping. Evidently others in my community have the same issue. The electrician told me today if any of them trip again they're gona pull all of them and replace them all. The wiring for the brewery goes from the garage breaker box through our attic to the back porch. None of it is under ground.View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1470868220.857441.jpg
 
The thing is is that they didn't put GFCI outlets in. They put in GFCI breakers.

I have never installed a gfci breaker in a house. Receptacles that can be reset at the point of use make so much sense if the installer cares to think. Is your panel full of arc fault breakers too? Michigan is resisting arc fault so far. The concept is good but arc fault will have far more nuisance trips than gfci. Not to mention a $100 panel with $1000 of breakers.
 
I have never installed a gfci breaker in a house. Receptacles that can be reset at the point of use make so much sense if the installer cares to think. Is your panel full of arc fault breakers too? Michigan is resisting arc fault so far. The concept is good but arc fault will have far more nuisance trips than gfci. Not to mention a $100 panel with $1000 of breakers.


They've had to replace some of the GFCI breakers with AFCI, and then go back and install GFCI outlets for the fridge. We kept coming home and the fridge was off. I'm very unimpressed with the install they've done.... Well, not just the electrical, but that's for another conversation. I believe the way it was explained was that you can replace a GFCI breaker with AFCI so long as there are GFCI outlets.
 
So, I'm trying to figure out the layout of all the components. I've got a fair amount of cable raceway I scavenged from old equipment at work, but I'm not sure if I'll use it. It seems like it'll take up more space than if I lace up the wire bundles. anyone have more experience with the pros and cons of using the raceway?
 
So I've realized I made an error when I bought my 50 amp extension cord for the control panel power. It has a male and female end. Obviously I'll need the male end to plug into my outlet on he wall. I haven't found a male receptacle, so I'm guessing they don't make them. That leaves me with either chopping the female end off, and adding a $20 or so male plug and using a regular $10 50 amp four prong range receptacle on the enclosure, or chopping off the end of the cord, and getting a $30+ strain relief. Ideally I think a removable power cord might be better, but I'm not opposed to it being permanently attached either.
 
So I've realized I made an error when I bought my 50 amp extension cord for the control panel power. It has a male and female end. Obviously I'll need the male end to plug into my outlet on he wall. I haven't found a male receptacle, so I'm guessing they don't make them. That leaves me with either chopping the female end off, and adding a $20 or so male plug and using a regular $10 50 amp four prong range receptacle on the enclosure, or chopping off the end of the cord, and getting a $30+ strain relief. Ideally I think a removable power cord might be better, but I'm not opposed to it being permanently attached either.

Do not terminate the cord with a live male plug!!! Either 1) cut the female end off and hard wire inside the panel with a strain relief, 2) leave the female end on and create a pigtail cord out of the panel with a male end, or 3) get the proper 50a male inlet (e.g., NEMA L14-50).

Edit: Not cheap, and not NEMA rated, but here is a 50a, 3 pole plus ground male inlet from Leviton. https://www.emisupply.com/catalog/l...gclid=CIv4nZim2M4CFUFkhgod2OUNhA#.V7yngvkrKUk
 
Do not terminate the cord with a live male plug!!! Either 1) cut the female end off and hard wire inside the panel with a strain relief, 2) leave the female end on and create a pigtail cord out of the panel with a male end, or 3) get the proper 50a male inlet (e.g., NEMA L14-50).

Edit: Not cheap, and not NEMA rated, but here is a 50a, 3 pole plus ground male inlet from Leviton. https://www.emisupply.com/catalog/l...gclid=CIv4nZim2M4CFUFkhgod2OUNhA#.V7yngvkrKUk


I was trying to keep the cost down by not having to use a 50 amp twist lock like that. Now I see why they're in use. The pigtail idea would still require a strain relief plus the male plug, so I am just going to get a strain relief and chop off the end of the cord.
 
Yes, do not build a male plug that has the potential to be hot....that's a cattle prod you do not want in your brewery!


Shame they don't make 50 amp range style 4 prong male receptacles for enclosures. If they do I have not found them yet. That's what I really wanted [emoji53]
 
Shame they don't make 50 amp range style 4 prong male receptacles for enclosures. If they do I have not found them yet. That's what I really wanted [emoji53]

its a cost thing... they dont want people using those low cost range plugs when they can sell you a more expensive one thats designed for that application.. Same goes with the dryer cords and spa panels. These are all more reasonably priced than their less used counterparts. some things they cant price gouge on as much it seems due to the popularity bringing down production costs somehow.. also theres likely more competition for those more commonly sold configurations.

I just used a pigtail cord coming out of my 30a control panel with one of those range/dryer recepticals mounted on the wall nearby next to my spa panle for easy access to everything.
 
I was going to use a range cord originally, but it's too short for my application. I want the control box under my porch in case it rains. The receptacle is about 18" off the ground, and 3' away from the porch. There's a brick pillar with not much clearance to work around, so by the time it would have all been hooked up inside the enclosure it would've been too short. That's why I bought the 15' extension cord. It was a lot cheaper than buying 6 gauge wire by itself.
 
Augiedoggy, what did you use for your strain relief/cable gland? I'm looking at the Cooper TCI497. It's $36 on Amazon.
 
Augiedoggy, what did you use for your strain relief/cable gland? I'm looking at the Cooper TCI497. It's $36 on Amazon.

I found some plastic ones that were the correct size for the soo cable I used on ebay... it was couple years ago now but I want to say I got 2 for like $6 or 8... they where the compression style.
there may be a link in my build thread below I dont remember..
 
OMG $36, that better relieve a lot of strain for that kinda money lol...


It's metal and also has a basket weave cable grip on it. It's not just a a gland. I've looked at using a plastic PG36 gland, but wasn't sure it would hold up well over time being plastic. I realize they're usually $5, not $36. $36 is still way cheaper than those stinking generator plugs [emoji36] stupid price gougers!!!
 
I know I am chiming in late here but went I brew i start out with almost 18 gallons of wort at the start of the boil and I use a 4500W element to heat it to boil. One thing to remember is that wile you are spaging into your boil kettle once your element is covered I turn it on and start heating to boil while the sparge is going one. A bit under powered here may not matter as much, by the time my sparge is complete my boil kettle is usually around 205 degrees F, not much further for a boil.
 
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