Pitching onto cake vs washing and re-pitching

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Northbank

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... so I'm just finishing up a lager, and planning on brewing another lager immediately afterwards. The beers use the same yeast, feature saaz hops (although the second also has Hallertau as well) ....

I had a whole slew of ball jars I can use for washing, and also wondering why I shouldn't just pitch right onto the original cake.

I'm flexible here, in that I can brew and bottle on the same day, or put brew day off a week and wash/re-pitch in the time.

The washing appeals to me because $12 of yeast felt like a lot and I am a penny pincher. Just pitching onto the old cake appeals to me because it feels easy and I am a path of least resistance kinda guy. I'm a wee bit torn.

I guess I should mention this is in a carboy so I can't really scoop out some of the old cake and do both.
 
I'd just take a sanitized pitcher, swirl up the yeast and pour it into a pitcher and then into sanitized jars (I save my yeast in mason jars in the fridge). Use the amount you need (a yeast pitching calculator helps, like the one on mrmalty.com) and save the rest in the fridge.

I buy yeast about three times per year and have about 6 strains of yeast in my fridge. It saves a lot of money!

I would not pitch directly on the cake in most cases. It's overpitching in most cases, and not necessary. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=166221
 
I too save yeast in sanitized jars. I found that "washing" was not truly washing and was a giant waste of time. Empty pasta sauce jars work great, as they allow me to save 16 oz of slurry with some headspace for CO2 off-gassing.

I've also become enamored with making vitality starters at the beginning of brew day instead of a "traditional" starter days ahead of time.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/06/29/yeast-pitch-rate-pt-2-viable-cell-count-vs-vitality-exbeeriment-results/

When I'm pitching a new batch on the yeast of a batch that has just finished I'll save 1/3 of the yeast cake for future use, use 1/3 of the yeast cake for the new brew, and dump the rest.
 
The only thing wrong with pitching on top of the yeast cake in the carboy is that you are definitely going to be way overpitching. You might need only 16 ounces of that slurry in there, but you're going to pitch like 100 ounces of yeast. It would probably turn out fine and some people do it but I'd be much more comfortable with swishing around the slurry and putting it into a sanitized jar. Save as many jars as you like, and then pitch one of those jars into the next batch of wort. You could also just pour out the majority of the slurry from the fermentor and pitch on top of that but it's a lot less scientific and still likely that you're overpitching, but I bet it would turn out okay.
 
I'd just take a sanitized pitcher, swirl up the yeast and pour it into a pitcher and then into sanitized jars (I save my yeast in mason jars in the fridge). Use the amount you need (a yeast pitching calculator helps, like the one on mrmalty.com) and save the rest in the fridge.

I buy yeast about three times per year and have about 6 strains of yeast in my fridge. It saves a lot of money!

I would not pitch directly on the cake in most cases. It's overpitching in most cases, and not necessary. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=166221

Exactly. My approach also, but I get worried when the stored yeast gets past about one month. I'm making a 3 liter starter of wyeast 1318 for a NEDIPA now because I chickened out using 6 plus week old yeast( unfortunately my brew fridge in the garage doesn't get much colder than 43* during the summer here in central florida.

How long will you store yeast before repitching?
 
Exactly. My approach also, but I get worried when the stored yeast gets past about one month. I'm making a 3 liter starter of wyeast 1318 for a NEDIPA now because I chickened out using 6 plus week old yeast( unfortunately my brew fridge in the garage doesn't get much colder than 43* during the summer here in central florida.

How long will you store yeast before repitching?

For me, I"ve stored it a long time. But there have been times when I've erred on the side of caution and checked the dates and tossed it. My mantra has been "when in doubt, toss it out" after an iffy starter from some old harvested yeast a while back. The yeast didn't smell quite "right", and the starter was sort of ok, but I didn't think it was perfect. I threw out 10 gallons of Band-Aid beer, so from then on I really look, sniff, think, and make the starter if yeast is more than several weeks old.

I've had more than a few containers of yeast more than 6 months old that have been great.
 
When storing yeast in the fridge for extended periods of time (i.e., longer than 1-2 weeks) is it better to have jars with tight-fitting lids, or will sanitized foil suffice?
 
I usually leave the lids slightly loose for the first few days them tighten. I also don't wash/or rinse. I buy a fresh pack and make a large starter them split into mason jars for storage. Just a another way of doing it
 
I usually leave the lids slightly loose for the first few days them tighten. I also don't wash/or rinse. I buy a fresh pack and make a large starter them split into mason jars for storage. Just a another way of doing it

I do the same thing propagating yeast^^. Works great. Takes a bit of time but worth it to me. Sometime I'll take a pint jar of the saved yeast and build a triple stepped starter and do it all over again. Depends on how much yeast I have on hand. I limit this to 6 generations.

Yeast, even when at fridge temps, still remains minimally active. For that reason, I always leave my lid slightly loose so it can vent.
 
I reuse my yeast cakes all of the time(harvest and store on beer then repitch), but I am starting to wonder about repitching the cakes from lagers. As the lagering process is harder on the yeast I am not sure if that is the best yeast to reuse. I am transitioning to over building the starters and harvesting seed yeast from there.
 
I reuse my yeast cakes all of the time(harvest and store on beer then repitch), but I am starting to wonder about repitching the cakes from lagers. As the lagering process is harder on the yeast I am not sure if that is the best yeast to reuse. I am transitioning to over building the starters and harvesting seed yeast from there.

Since I never lager on the yeast cake, that hasn't been an issue at all. When I rack to the lagering vessel, I just save the yeast the same way I save ale yeast.
 
I am using the fast lager method from Brulosophy so I suspect my yeast might be in slightly better shape than the standard long method.
 
Since I never lager on the yeast cake, that hasn't been an issue at all. When I rack to the lagering vessel, I just save the yeast the same way I save ale yeast.

OK, misuse of the term of lagering. I was really referring to the colder temp primary fermentation used for lager style beers, not the actual cold conditioning.

The thought is if you need twice the yeast count for lagers as you do for ales for a wort with the same gravity it must be harder/more stressful on the yeast at the lower temps. It would also seem that yeast grown under stressful conditions might not as be healthy as yeast grown under more ideal conditions.
 
OK, misuse of the term of lagering. I was really referring to the colder temp primary fermentation used for lager style beers, not the actual cold conditioning.



The thought is if you need twice the yeast count for lagers as you do for ales for a wort with the same gravity it must be harder/more stressful on the yeast at the lower temps. It would also seem that yeast grown under stressful conditions might not as be healthy as yeast grown under more ideal conditions.


That would be a good xbmt. Compare difference between stressful vs ideal conditions of yeast cake. I would bet there would be no perceivable difference especially on a homebrew scale
 
That would be a good xbmt. Compare difference between stressful vs ideal conditions of yeast cake. I would bet there would be no perceivable difference especially on a homebrew scale

I've got to believe that commercial lager brewers reuse their yeast all the time, and it's certainly under tremendously higher stress, due to the pressure of hundreds of gallons of beer on top of it, as compared to 5 gallon homebrew batches...
 
OK, misuse of the term of lagering. I was really referring to the colder temp primary fermentation used for lager style beers, not the actual cold conditioning.

The thought is if you need twice the yeast count for lagers as you do for ales for a wort with the same gravity it must be harder/more stressful on the yeast at the lower temps. It would also seem that yeast grown under stressful conditions might not as be healthy as yeast grown under more ideal conditions.

But the higher pitching rate means less yeast stress, and it's a different yeast which is designed for cooler temperatures. It's saccharomyces pastorianus vs saccharomyces cerevisiae.

Lager yeast has been especially great for repitching for me, due to the need for higher cell counts (pro rates are something like 2 million cells/ml of wort/ degree plato for higher gravity lagers) and building starters for that amount of yeast would be crazy. You'd need like a 2 gallon starter for 10 gallons of dopplebock. Might as well make a lower OG lager, and repitch the yeast.
 
Yeah, the savings really adds up when it comes to lagers since some recipes call for two packages of dry yeast. You could potentially save 10 bucks every time you make a lager!
 
Yeah, the savings really adds up when it comes to lagers since some recipes call for two packages of dry yeast. You could potentially save 10 bucks every time you make a lager!

Saflager S-23 ...$6.50 + tax at my local Home Brew Store ... per pack ... either way, I've saving $13+ re-using the yeast, and I'm going to throw some at a buddy as well so ... and I'm going to leave some in the fridge so ... I feel like I'll more than have my money's worth.


... the more money I save on this, the more I get to brew or the more gear I get to buy :)
 
I've experienced lager yeast actually making better beer after repitching it a few times. Specifically 2124 and WLP810.
 
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