Super light blonde color for IPA

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Little_Lebowski

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Trying to find a malt bill for an IPA 5-8% abv range where the color stays super light blonde. Also sort of the dryness of a pale ale too. Just looking for a really crisp neutral malt that gives way to straight hop flavor and aroma. The lightest I've been able to get a beer so far is like a bright orange color. I really want to get down into the yellow range.
 
Look for malts with low SRM. 2-row, crystal/Carmel 10L, maybe some white wheat or carafa am for head retention, try to keep it simple...the more malts you add the more you'll go away from that straw color.
 
Keep it simple, just use straight 2-row (maybe throw in a little wheat for head retention if you like).

NO "character" malts, including crystal malts.
 
You're all grain right? Cause super light color is nearly impossible with extract

Good point. If you're an extract brewer, your best bet is to get the absolute lightest dry extract you can find and add it only at the very end of the boil. Well, actually your best bet is to switch to all-grain...
 
80-85% pilsner malt...or a combo of that with pils/2-row, 10% white wheat, 5-10% table sugar. you dont need any crystal or carapils for head retention, hoppy beers almost always have good head from the hops. the 10% wheat will also help with that
 
Yeah all grain sorry to mention. And straight 2 row will not get what I'm looking for. I've been brewing for years so I do have a good bit of experience. Looking for something a bit more specific than that

As for the pils, I may look into that again. Used it once for a Gandhi not clone two years ago but even that was darker Amber color
 
I may try and brew another IPA with about 30-40% malted oat. That did get me as light as I was able to go but had a bit of an issue with efficiency. Did see people requesting a double mill on that which I will definitely check out.
 
Yeah all grain sorry to mention. And straight 2 row will not get what I'm looking for. I've been brewing for years so I do have a good bit of experience. Looking for something a bit more specific than that

As for the pils, I may look into that again. Used it once for a Gandhi not clone two years ago but even that was darker Amber color

Dude, if you can't get a pale yellow color from nothing-but-base-malt (especially if your pils malt came out amber), you are doing something else wrong in your process.

With "years" of experience, it seems like you should know how to make a basic pale beer, unless most of those years were spent as an extract brewer (which, you know, no hate, some folks do that their whole life and make perfectly good beer).

EDIT: Just re-read my last sentence there and realized it sounded more dick-ish than I intended. Sorry about that. I just mean that I think you might have something wrong in your process if you have all that experience and are still having this problem.
 
Never brewed extract, I've brewed all grain since day 1. The GB recipe with pils also had additional specialty malts as well. As it was an attempt at GB, which is a deep orange, I wasn't shooting for straw yellow color with that brew.

Basic pale beer, no offense, is not what I'm going for. I'm talking straw blonde yellow

Lastly, if you don't want to give advice then don't. I don't care. I'm not one of those guys that's going to engage in a pissing contest with you.
 
I think I hear what you're saying 'cause I'm trying to lighten the color of my house pale ale. But if you are not into a straight 2 row grain bill, what other flavors are you looking for in the IPA?

I think trying a batch with nothing but 2 row would be a good exercise to taste the base and see how light that gets you. From there could look at some sugar. Maybe some wheat. Golden promise. I've tried pils but to me 2 row and pils taste like a blonde.
 
Brewer's Malt (2-Row) and white wheat...keep the ph around 5.4 to 5.2.

EPA.JPG
 
Never brewed extract, I've brewed all grain since day 1. The GB recipe with pils also had additional specialty malts as well. As it was an attempt at GB, which is a deep orange, I wasn't shooting for straw yellow color with that brew.

Basic pale beer, no offense, is not what I'm going for. I'm talking straw blonde yellow

Lastly, if you don't want to give advice then don't. I don't care. I'm not one of those guys that's going to engage in a pissing contest with you.

As I said, I didn't mean to come off as impolitely as I think I ultimately sounded. With that in mind, I did offer you advice earlier in the thread. But clearly, that advice (straight 2-row with some wheat malt) was not what you were looking for.

So now the ball's in your court; tell us what exactly you want. If you say "I want to make a pale yellow beer," we're going to tell you how we would do that (in my case, 2-row plus wheat, which someone else has also posted in the picture above). If that's not the full scope of what you're after, you're going to have to give us more specifics of what you're looking for. Is it just the color that you are still unsatisfied with? Or is there a flavor profile you are trying to get while maintaining a very light color? Something else entirely?
 
If you are getting amberish color out of 2row, you are probably boiling to hot. Drop your flame down to just above a simmer. A low rolling boil, if you will. A harder boil will darken the wort.

My .02, 40% white wheat, 50% pils or 2 row + rice hulls. Boil low. I just did a 11g summer pale with that mix + 1# carawheat and it's very light. Inbev light(+ wheat haze)
 
As I said, I didn't mean to come off as impolitely as I think I ultimately sounded. With that in mind, I did offer you advice earlier in the thread. But clearly, that advice (straight 2-row with some wheat malt) was not what you were looking for.

So now the ball's in your court; tell us what exactly you want. If you say "I want to make a pale yellow beer," we're going to tell you how we would do that (in my case, 2-row plus wheat, which someone else has also posted in the picture above). If that's not the full scope of what you're after, you're going to have to give us more specifics of what you're looking for. Is it just the color that you are still unsatisfied with? Or is there a flavor profile you are trying to get while maintaining a very light color? Something else entirely?

In my original post I said light yellow color with the malt in the background at best... Not looking for any specific malt flavor than simply out of the way. So light color, light flavor, light body but still an abv up and out of the "session" range. If I have to compare it to anything, I'd honestly have to say Tired Hands are brewing these one after the next after the next just using different combinations of hops. And the hops are truly well defined and bright and in the forefront. The more I talk about it I think I'll definitely return to another malted oat heavy bill as I think that can achieve a neutral flavor and light color.

I remember brewing a hop hands recipe on this board that looked light as hell and it was 80/20 2-row and flaked(not malted) oats. You can see the final color in this pic I attached.

The picture leesmith posted above is pretty close to what I'm after color wise.

image.jpg
 
In this pic this is a 50/50 6# western pale malt from morebeer and 6# white wheat malt. I believe I also had .5# crystal 20L as well. Closer to what I was going for than previous ones but still very orange

image.jpg
 
My last brew was actually 7# 2row , 5# malted oats , 2# white wheat. Here's the color of that one, you can start to see a pattern:

image.jpg
 
If you are getting amberish color out of 2row, you are probably boiling to hot. Drop your flame down to just above a simmer. A low rolling boil, if you will. A harder boil will darken the wort.

My .02, 40% white wheat, 50% pils or 2 row + rice hulls. Boil low. I just did a 11g summer pale with that mix + 1# carawheat and it's very light. Inbev light(+ wheat haze)

Every expert I've heard and everything I've read about boils stressed a vigorous boil for DMS purposes... If I reduce the heat to a simmer are you still boiling for 60min?
 
As others have mentioned, straight 2-row base or pilsner malt will give you a straw colored beer. 5-10% wheat for a little body. Mash low. If you prefer a lower FG reduce your malt bill and sub in a lb of dextrose after the boil. If you get anything darker than straw color - there is something wrong.

Best.
 
I see what you mean about the color of those beers. With those grain bills (except maybe the one that used C20), I am a bit surprised that you are getting such a [relatively] dark color. For that reason, I really don't think the issue is with the grain bill per se, but likely some other variable in the brewing process. pH, perhaps? Or as someone else suggested, boiling too hot (resulting in speeding up the Maillard reactions/kettle caramelization)? Not wanting to assume anything, I'll also ask, do you do full volume boils, or do you boil down below your target batch size and top up with water (which would give you a darker color)?

I just have a hard time imagining that a 100% base malt grain bill would be so consistently giving you those darker colors. The only thing I can think of as far as that goes is that your quantities are higher than what I think of as "average strength" (not session) grain bills. Perhaps just the sheer quantity of grain is darkening up your beers...?

I'm just spitballing at the moment, though. Maybe someone else noticed some detail I didn't, or has some better insight.
 
I see what you mean about the color of those beers. With those grain bills (except maybe the one that used C20), I am a bit surprised that you are getting such a [relatively] dark color. For that reason, I really don't think the issue is with the grain bill per se, but likely some other variable in the brewing process. pH, perhaps? Or as someone else suggested, boiling too hot (resulting in speeding up the Maillard reactions/kettle caramelization)? Not wanting to assume anything, I'll also ask, do you do full volume boils, or do you boil down below your target batch size and top up with water (which would give you a darker color)?

I just have a hard time imagining that a 100% base malt grain bill would be so consistently giving you those darker colors. The only thing I can think of as far as that goes is that your quantities are higher than what I think of as "average strength" (not session) grain bills. Perhaps just the sheer quantity of grain is darkening up your beers...?

I'm just spitballing at the moment, though. Maybe someone else noticed some detail I didn't, or has some better insight.

I do all full volumes and yes all of those beers above, except actually the hop hands recipe which was the first one, were larger bills. ~6-7% ABV but nothing huge. The large one with about #14 lbs had poor efficiency due to the crush on the oats

I do water additions using ez water and monitor my pH closely and try keeping it between 5.2-5.4

One thing I've noticed though is I've never been able to get full volumes into my fermenter. I do use a **** ton of hops which soak up my product obviously but I'd be hard pressed to say (at least for an IPA) that I've once kegged over 4 gallons while brewing a 5 gallon recipe. I'm usually right around 3-3.5 gallons getting in the keg. My volumes for stouts and other non hop forward brews have been much better

I fly sparge using a blichman floating sparge arm that I installed in an igloo cooler. I usually get my desired volume into the kettle and my efficiency is good, not stellar though. I've recently honed in my set up to extend my sparge time closer to 30-40 minutes though which had helped. I am about half tempted though to try batch sparging to see if that helps.

It is possible I'm boiling too hot but like I said everywhere I've read and heard urges a vigorous boil.
 
To add: I also use a blichman boilermaker kettle and have never seen any scorched spots or burnt residue in the kettle after the boil. I monitor all my temps with a thermopen thermometer and pH with a meter as well.

I'm trying to think back to my colors coming out of the mash vs into the fermenter to see where the dark colors are happening first. If I do recall the one I did a few batches ago with 40% malted oats was nice a straw colored leaving the mash.
 
How do you handle the beer on the cold side?
Kegging?
Bottling?
Reducing o2 as much as possible?
 
I ferment in a glass carboy with blow off tube into a gallon jug. Dry hop right in the primary with no secondary transfer. I fill my kegs to the top with star san to soak and then run the star san out with co2 to purge the entire vessel before I siphon from the carboy into the keg

Where does color come in to play?
 
These two beers are from a Lord Hobo 6 pack of a Citra Session IPA.
Don't remember the name.

As you can see things can get wonky with beer...

If you've used 2-row and oats as the grain bill you should be able to get a lighter color. It's either ph, oxidation and/or packaging causing your issue.

image.jpg
 
Keep in mind if you reduce the intensity of your flame you're reducing the amount of heat going into your kettle. while you're boiling if there's less heat then there's less evaporation. So if you're at a vigorous boil and that's where you're getting your boil off rate you may find it will change at a less vigorous boil. Something to think about when collecting your wort.
 
These two beers are from a Lord Hobo 6 pack of a Citra Session IPA.
Don't remember the name.

As you can see things can get wonky with beer...

If you've used 2-row and oats as the grain bill you should be able to get a lighter color. It's either ph, oxidation and/or packaging causing your issue.

I appreciate what you're saying but I def have to rule out pH. As I said before.. I monitor it closely. Secondly, before I even started getting into specifics with water additions my pH levels were even lower than they are now.
 
Ok...then when you dry hop is fermentation over with or do you add at the tail end of fermentation?

Also...when do the beers take on a deeper color?
 
Keep in mind if you reduce the intensity of your flame you're reducing the amount of heat going into your kettle. while you're boiling if there's less heat then there's less evaporation. So if you're at a vigorous boil and that's where you're getting your boil off rate you may find it will change at a less vigorous boil. Something to think about when collecting your wort.

Sorry you lost me a little there... You're saying ultimately lower the heat?
 
Ok...then when you dry hop is fermentation over with or do you add at the tail end of fermentation?

Also...when do the beers take on a deeper color?

I dry hop twice. Once at the tail end and once a few days before I keg

im not quite sure but I'd bet it was outta the kettle mostly and possibly out of the mash as well. Maybe a combination of both. Maybe I am boiling too strong and too hot.
 
Post boil of the hop hands recipe. This is a 7.5 gallon kettle which I'm
Upgrading to a 15 gallon later this month (anything to do with it??). Also I collect about 6.5 into the kettle which is pretty close to the top and you can see where I ended up there. And that includes the displacement with the chiller submerged also

image.jpg
 
I appreciate what you're saying but I def have to rule out pH. As I said before.. I monitor it closely. Secondly, before I even started getting into specifics with water additions my pH levels were even lower than they are now.

Last little question before you rule out pH (only because this is an elusive problem and we're having to check every possible nook and cranny). Do you adjust your pH readings for temperature? pH reads differently based on temp (like gravity), so for example, if you are measuring a 5.3 pH at mash temp, it may actually be 5.6-5.7 at room temperature. Depending on the actual numbers, this could or could not cause problems.
 
It is possible I'm boiling too hot but like I said everywhere I've read and heard urges a vigorous boil.

Listen to the latest episode of Brew Strong on BN about thermal load. You'll hear some naysayers of vigorous boil including some guy named Jamil and some guy called Jon Blickman. :p
 
Sorry you lost me a little there... You're saying ultimately lower the heat?

Sorry I think i commented thinking I was at the end of the thread but there was a whole conversion after. Someone said to reduce the boil and boil longer to eliminate DMS not boil rigorously. It's easy to end up with way too much wort at the end of a boil if you have numbers for what you usually dothen reduce your heat significantly. that is all i'll hang my head in shame now...:D
 
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