Edelweiß - Recipe from Brooklyn Brew Shop - Tips and Advice

Edelweiß - Recipe from Brooklyn Brew Shop - Tips and Advice

My next brew is going to be one of those recipes that I’ve wanted to try since the moment I read about it - Edelweiß (Edelweiss), from Brooklyn Brew Shop’s Beer Making Book:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/beermakingbook

Here is the enticing description that is found in the book:

This is our take on Edelweiss, the somewhat obscure German style of hefeweizen, a cloudy wheat beer. It gets bottled early, just a few days after adding the yeast, and without any extra honey or syrup. The beer finishes fermenting in the bottle and gathers a light carbonation. The result is a floral, yeasty beer that ends up on the sweeter side of the wheat beer spectrum - more bubblegum and banana than spicy clove. This beer is soft and gentle, making it ideal for springtime.

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After reading something like that, I figured that I had better try this recipe at least once in my lifetime. It’s the beginning of summer now, rather than spring, but I am guessing that will not be a problem.

The grain bill is pretty simple and straightforward, filled with German malts; Pale Wheat, Pilsner, Munich and Melanoidin are all that is needed for this recipe.

The hops for this recipe are probably a bit off the traditional path - it uses Centennial hops for bittering and flavour, then Amarillo hops for aroma. For this first attempt, I will stick with the hops that are prescribed by the recipe; however, when I make this in the future, I will be looking to take this beer back across the Atlantic. I’m guessing that noble hops such as Tettnanger or possibly Hallertau would be most appropriate, but will see what I can find out before making any hard decisions.

As far as yeast is concerned, I had two choices available to me - Mangrove Jack’s M20 Bavarian Wheat and DanStar’s Munich. I decided to go with the M20, and we’ll see how things turn out.

For those who are into stats, I plugged this recipe into Brewers Friend and came up with this, using “German Wheat Beer/Weissbeer” as the yardstick by which to measure it.

OG - 1.057 (0.02 over style)
FG - 1.014 (0.01 over style)
ABV - 5.6% (conforms to style)
IBU - 11.00 (conforms to style)
SRM - 5.50 (conforms to style)

I’m no expert, but this looks pretty darn close to "style" to me; the very slight variations might have something to do with the mash guidelines that I entered, which are often just a guess on my part.

The unique thing about this beer is that it is bottled three days after pitching the yeast, with no added priming sugar. The last of the fermentation and resulting carbonation take place using the remaining residual sugars in the wort, a process that supposedly contributes to the special characteristics of this wheat ale. We’ll see how it turns out.

Here is the label that I came up with for this brewing session -



I had considered a few classic Alpine scenes, but this one struck close to home, and I decided to go with it. I like the image of this European robin - robins are a harbinger of spring here in Montana - anxiously waiting for spring (which is often late in Montana) as an Edelweiß flower emerges from the snow.

I contacted Brooklyn Brew Shop with a couple of questions about brewing this beer, and as soon as I hear back from them, I will get started. If anyone is interested in trying this recipe, feel free to shoot me a PM and I can email it to you; I am reluctant to post it on the open forum, as it is not “my” recipe. I would also recommend picking up this book, as well as the second book from BBS - Make Some Beer. Both of these books have a lot of good information for the beginning homebrewer, with plenty of room to grow; additionally, I find the recipes to be quite inspiring, with interesting creativity and enthusiastic descriptions. I’ve been happy with all of the ones that I’ve tried so far.

As always, I welcome feedback and suggestions with this - I consider myself to be very much a beginning brewer, and batting ideas around is always good for learning new things. Please feel free to chime in, follow along or otherwise participate in the discussion.

More as it happens, etc. &c….

Ron

I heard back from Brooklyn Brew Shop regarding my questions on this recipe.

They said that M20 is a decent enough yeast that should produce a tasty beer, but they do recommend White Labs Hefeweizen Ale Yeast.

Also, when I asked about the timing, they said that as close to 72 hours as possible (from pitching yeast to bottling) provides the best results with carbonation for this recipe. It doesn't have to be exact, but that is the best time-table.

Finally, they said that this beer is indeed best fresh, and that at 5 weeks (my expected time to meet up with a friend and enjoy this beer), it should still be very good.

Considering all of these factors, I might hold off on brewing long enough to order the recommended yeast; By the sounds of it, I will still have plenty of time to receive the yeast, brew, bottle etc. I'll give it some thought, and post updates as they happen.

Ron

Sounds good, keep us updated. I've also got their two books. Seems like it could be a quick beer to make and drink. So bottle within 3 days after pitching yeast? Hmm, does it say how long to let carb/condition in the bottle before drinking?

Hi, Tony, and thanks for the interest in the project.

Based on BBS's answer to my inquiry, the optimum time to bottle (after pitching yeast) is 72 hours - or as close to that as possible - assuming room-temperature fermentation. Too soon, and of course you will have over-carbonated beer; too late, and it will be under-carbonated.

BBS's book says that the beer is ready two weeks after bottling. I also seem to recall them mentioning to have the beer in the refrigerator at least over-night before sampling. I usually go three weeks after bottling - then 1 week in the refrigerator - before sampling. Having said that, with this beer, intended to be young, I'll probably relax that self-imposed guideline and go two weeks plus overnight between bottling and sampling.

So, to answer the question, I'd say you're looking at 18 days minimum from BrewDay to sampling. Three days to ferment, 14 days in the bottle, and over-night in the refrigerator.

Hope this helps!

Have you tried any of their recipes? I've been impressed with nearly all of them, and most of them I have on the list to try. Their recipes include amounts for both 1- and 5-gallon batches, so anyone can give them a try.

Ron

Just a quick follow-up -

I checked with a couple of my sources, and the "recommended" yeast doesn't seem available to me at the moment (either not offered, or out of stock); also, if I did order the yeast, I'd have concerns about whether it arrived on time to finish this beer in time for the last week of July, when it needs to be ready.

Because of this, I will go ahead and use the Mangrove Jack's yeast, as previously planned. If this beer turns out as well as I am hoping it will, I'll have plenty of time in the future to try it with the "correct" yeast.

Please keep us updated on this recipe. I've been wanting to try it since I first read the book 2 years ago, but never got around to it. I'm really interested to hear how it turns out

Hi, shellsbells - thanks for weighing in. There IS something about that description and recipe, isn't there?

I'll keep with the updates and will hopefully have some developments soon.

Brewing this right now - just dropped the grains in to mash.

More later.....

The brew went well - My mash temperatures stayed within my range, the sparging went smoothly with no spills or long waits, the boil passed efficiently with the hops going in on schedule and the chilling down/pitching of the yeast were without any problems.

The malted grains that are used for this brew make a really nice combination; I am no expert by any means, but I am thinking that we're going to end up with a "bready" beer that has a bit of toast. I think these hops are also going to turn out nicely. They are not "traditional" hops, but did provide some nice, clean floral and citrus ambience that seems to fit right in. The few accounts that I've read of people drinking this beer sometimes include the addition of a slice of lemon; however, with these hops, I don't think that will be necessary. This combination of grains and hops should work quite well with the Bavarian yeast to make a very interesting beer.

I can't see where anything went wrong with this brew and am expecting that things will be fine with the final beer, assuming that the unorthodox bottle conditioning does what it s "supposed" to do. I set a timer for 72 hours after pitching the yeast, so that I could be sure to bottle the beer at the optimum time. When I checked on the wort this morning, fermentation was definitely active and things were beginning to ramp up quite nicely. I'll try almost anything once, so we'll see how things go....

Sounds great, keep us updated with the results. I also like your signature line.

Thanks, Tony - that signature speaks a lot about my German heritage as well as my own ways of thinking.

On another note, I made a couple of corrections to my Brew Smith entries (specific grains, true alpha acids vs. estimates etc.) and the "stats" on the beer changed. I have modified the OP to reflect this, but the two primary changes are:

The ABV is 5.6
The SRM is 11.00

I have edited the OP to reflect this.

Alright - 72 hours - almost to the minute - after brewing this beer, I've got it bottled. By some miracle, I did just barely manage to get nine bottles out of this, which is average for a 1-gallon batch. The sediment had not quite compacted yet, and I sucked up a little trub, but not much.... But, it's a hefeweizen, so probably no big deal. I've sucked up more bottling a couple of non-hefeweizens, and they turned out great.

I wasn't able to get a bottling sample, but it sure smelled great. In a couple of weeks, we'll see what we have; I'm hoping for some good things with this, because I could see it becoming a go-to recipe. For comparison, I might try it next time with the more conventional 2-week ferment and priming sugar (honey), but if this works the way it should, it could impart some good things into the beer.

I checked this morning - no bottle bombs, so things must be going alright...(knock on wood)....

I looked in on the bottles this morning and things continue to look fine. I assume that the carbonation is continuing, but I do not know to what extent. The recipe description describes it as "soft and gentle," so we'll see how it turns out.

The suspended particles in the beer are starting to settle a bit; I noticed that we're going to have more sediment in the bottles than usual, but that is not much of a surprise considering that I bottled this after only 3 days of fermentation. I am guessing that over the coming days, the sediment will settle and compact somewhat.

More as it happens etc. &c.

We're still looking good with this as of today. No bottle bombs, further settling of sediment, and the sediment itself seems to be packing down a bit.

I think this is going to be just fine, assuming that it is carbonating.

Just a quick update on this -

We're 10 days in after bottling (I bottled just after midnight on the "morning" of 4 July) and no bottle bombs, no huge blunders. Visually, everything looks fine, and I am assuming that carbonation has taken place. There is a little more sediment in the bottom of the bottle than usual, but this is to be expected, all things considered; it seems to me that the sediment has indeed started to compact a bit, so we'll see what we end up with.

July 18th will mark the full 2 weeks in the bottle; at that time I will put them in the refrigerator for a couple-three days and sample on Thursday evening, the 21st. Hopefully, we'll have a good product, because we leave the next day for South Dakota and my "beer reunion" with my buddy.

I sampled my Edelweiß tonight, and was very much satisfied with it - for a first attempt at this type of beer, I think it was a definite success.

I waited patiently through two weeks after bottling, then chilled a bottle and gave it a try after that bare minimum of time. This beer is supposedly best when enjoyed "young," and I must say that this was indeed very good. It wasn't over-carbed, but instead was just as advertised, soft and gentle - almost (but not quite) under-carbed a bit. I think that my fermentation environment (a bedroom closet in the middle of summer) was just a tad too warm for this recipe. I waited 72 hours from pitching yeast to bottling, as the instructions stated, but I think that the warmer temperatures advanced the time-table just a bit...not much, but enough to put the level of carbonation a hair lower than ideal. It was fine as it was, but just a bit more carbonation (and not much, at that) would have been perfect.

Having said that, there WAS carbonation, with a nice, creamy head that didn't last too long, but left some really nice lacing as I drank the beer. Best of all, the flavours are definitely all there, brought together in really nice harmony by the malts, the yeast and the hops. The taste and mouthfeel reminded me a lot of Paulaner hefeweizen; it wasn't exactly the same, but it had a lot of characteristics that put me in that same zone.

This could easily be my favourite beer yet. I might play with some different hops the next time I make this - something on the noble side of the fence - but there really isn't any need to. With some temperature control, holding at a desired range instead of relying on ambient summer temperatures, I honestly think that this beer can really rock, if prepared as-written in the recipe. Maybe I simply need to make it in the late winter, as intended....

In any case, do give this one a try - you will not be sorry!

My post above was written after several "samplings" last night of different beers, followed by several "tastings" off different wines, followed by three people splitting a 12-pack of Olympia. Some of this might be repetitious, but here's a more clear-headed review.

This turned out very well - it tasted great and there was some definite carbonation in the bottle. I was worried about the unorthodox process, but it did what it was supposed to do. I would consider it just slightly under-carbed, but not by much. My fermentation temperatures (ambient temperatures in a closet in an old house during the peak of summer) were likely to blame. I am guessing I could have bottled it a few hours earlier, and the carbonation would have been spot-on.

The flavours, however, were right there, and this might have been one of my most enjoyable beers. I'll give it a few more days before refrigerating, in the hopes that might carbonate just a bit more - but even if it doesn't, it will be alright.

In any case, I'll definitely be making this again.

I tried another one of these a couple of nights ago, and it continues to impress. It really is just as advertised in the opening post - I like it a lot!

The head has gotten even creamier, with lacing all the way to the bottom of the glass. The aroma is smoothing out, and the flavours have developed very nicely as the hops are just peeking from behind the malts, lending an alpine touch to the beer.

The carbonation could have been just a little bit more, and I'd still like to try this with some noble German hops; having said that, I am completely satisfied with how this turned out!

Thanks for updating on the results. It sounds like it was a real success and I think I'm gonna have to try making it sometime. Cheers!

Hi, shellsbells, and thanks for the feedback. I am pretty sure that if you try this, you will like this.

One thing I've noticed as the beer matures just a bit is that the recipe's choice of hops (Centennial and Amarillo), even though they are totally non-traditional, lend a really interesting and appropriate quality to the beer. When I think of edelweiss, I think of the snow-capped Bavarian or Austrian peaks, clear lakes rimmed with pine and spruce trees, and a general sense of being in the high Alpine regions of Europe. These hops deliver that feeling in spades with this beer, and it is really a masterful use of them, in my opinion.

Anyway, please do give it a shot - it would be great to have some opinions on the other than my own. As I recall, you mentioned that you have the book, but if you need the recipe, let me know. The same, of course, goes for anyone else reading this.

Ron

TasunkaWitko, I was planning on taking a crack at this in a couple weeks, but after reading your post I decided to move it up on my to-brew list (what the heck, it sounds great and I've got the ingredients on hand anyway). I've just started the mash and am pretty excited to see how this one turns out. Wish me luck

Let me know how it goes and what you think!

The "Alpine quality" (as I call it) of the hops needs about 3 or 4 weeks in the bottle in order to come forward, or at least that was my observation.

Ugh. The yeast I ended up using for this was a few months past it's expiry date. I pitched around 7pm on Saturday and had absolutely no signs of fermentation until early this morning (about 36 hours after pitching). Anyone have any suggestions - the recipe says to bottle 3 days after brewing but with this lag time, should I give it an extra day? I really want to avoid bottle bombs

Under these circumstances, with your yeast situation, I'd say to go ahead and do the fermentation and bottling on a "normal" schedule instead of the 3-day one. Instead of the way the recipe is written, I would wait until fermentation is complete, then bottle with priming sugar as you would with any other beer.

The beer should still taste great, I think, but considering how tricky the timing is with this, there's no need to take a chance.

TasunkaWitko, I was looking at your label for this beer. It is really nice. How did you make that? What software? I have been looking for an easy way to design labels, that is not too involved (or too expensive), but allows for some creativity. Most of the programs out there would be quite a learning curve for me, or have limited capability. :rockin:

TasunkaWitko said:

Under these circumstances, with your yeast situation, I'd say to go ahead and do the fermentation and bottling on a "normal" schedule instead of the 3-day one. Instead of the way the recipe is written, I would wait until fermentation is complete, then bottle with priming sugar as you would with any other beer.

The beer should still taste great, I think, but considering how tricky the timing is with this, there's no need to take a chance.

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Thanks for the suggestion. I think you're probably right, the best thing to do would be to let the batch ferment normally & prime as per usual. I'm sure it'll be pretty tasty anyway, but it is a bit of a bummer. I was really interested to see how the recipe as intended would turn out

Good Morning, gents, and thanks for the feedback. I'll reply to those, and then I have an update on this beer, as I drank the last one from the batch last night.

@okiedog - the labels I make work well enough for my purpose, and they are very easy to make, as well. I owe the basic layout to Andy and his excellent label-generating website, which can be found here:

https://www.beerlabelizer.com/

A very awesome and friendly member here on the forum named JINKS (who was also a fellow Montanan) used to make the labels for me (and others), using this program as a base. My German ancestors originated in Bavaria and Alsace before migrating to Ukraine for a few generations. After that, they emigrated to the USA and settled in North Dakota. JINKS knew of my affinity for my heritage, and designed a "logo" for me (found in the lower-left corner of all of my labels); we also came up with a basic theme of using a painting that recalled images that would have been relevant to my "Germans-from-Russia" and North-Dakota/Montana background.

Unfortunately, JINKS passed away, leaving a heck of a big pair of shoes to fill. Since then, I've sort of taught myself how to continue in the same basic style that he used. The big challenge, for me, was the font. Keeping with the German thing, I needed a font that had that German look. Luckily, I found a way to do this. Using the "labelizer" link above, and paying the very modest 5$ fee for the customizable labels that allow you to upload an image, I create a blank label, choosing a background colour and a painting that has some relevance to whatever beer I am making, then save it. Once that is done, I open it with a free photo-editing program that is very easy to use and versatile:

http://www.getpaint.net/index.html

This program allows me to first lay the "logo" onto the label; then, after saving the label, I open the label again and use the text tool to put all of the text on in the font that I prefer to use. I then save the label, print a bunch out, ask my wife (very nicely) to cut them out for me, and I attach them to the bottles with a glue stick. It sounds more complicated than it actually is - if I can do it, anyone can.

Hope this helps - it works for me, and is straight-forward enough to be fairly user-friendly. JINKS wrote and published an article here on HBT that goes into all of this in a little more detail, but once you do a couple, it is pretty easy.

@shellsbells - hey ~ I'm pretty sure it will taste great, but I do understand the disappointment. Part of the unique character of this beer is the way it is fermented/bottled. The method - in my opinion - puts a softness onto the final product that is really something different, in a good way. I'm betting that you will like the beer, however, and will get a chance to make it again, using the "3-day ferment" approach.

Let me know how it turns out, and what you think of it - this just might become my go-to hefeweizen, as I haven't been able to brew anything better, so far.

I did enjoy the last beer of this batch last night. I honestly meant to take a photo of it, but I was also in the middle of brewing another batch (a Bullberry Red Ale), and things kind of slipped away from me.

Two things I noticed about this last beer:

a) Somehow, the carbonation had "come forward" just enough to be perfect. I am not sure how this happened, because I would think that further carbonation in the refrigerator would be impossible. Perhaps some other characteristic of the beer retreated a bit, allowing the existing carbonation to become more noticeable? I don't know - the only thing I do know I that this last bottle was perfectly carbonated, to me. Since there was no priming sugar or any difference between this beer and the others, I can only assume that something happened in the bottle.

b) The hops still had that awesome, Alpine character, but just a hint of citrus had come forward too, leaving a very nice finish. It didn't compete with anything- it only complimented and augmented the experience. As noted somewhere earlier in this thread, it is a common traditional practice to serve this beer with a slice of lemon, but I would consider that unnecessary with these hops.

The rest of the qualities of this beer that I have mentioned before were still present in very nice form; the soft, creamy head that provided some beautiful lacing, the gentle character of the overall mouthfeel and the malty goodness were all still present. I know that it is said that a hefeweizen is best enjoyed while very young, but apparently they are still very, very good at two months. As I've noted several times in this thread, I'm a huge fan of this one, and will definitely be making it again, toward the end of winter. In fact, it could very well be my first all-grain 5-gallon batch, so that I can be sure of having a continual supply.

For now, that covers everything I have for this beer; I do hope that the information here is useful, and would encourage anyone reading to provide feedback, ask questions and - most of all - give this one a try.

Ron

Thanks for the info on making labels. I do have Labelizer, but did not know how to modify the labels.

shellsbells said:

Thanks for the suggestion. I think you're probably right, the best thing to do would be to let the batch ferment normally & prime as per usual. I'm sure it'll be pretty tasty anyway, but it is a bit of a bummer. I was really interested to see how the recipe as intended would turn out

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@shellsbells - how did this turn out?

I actually haven't tried it yet, TasunkaWitko. I bottled it 10 days ago and was going to sample it tonight, but forgot to toss one in the fridge last night
Thanks for the reminder though; I'm gonna chill one now and have a taste tomorrow. I'll keep you posted

Sounds good - I'm looking forward to it and hope you enjoy it!

TasunkaWitko said:

Sounds good - I'm looking forward to it and hope you enjoy it!

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I tried the first bottle tonight, and was pretty impressed overall. It was well carbed with about an inch of nice, fluffy head. It smelled delicious, lots of banana & bubble gum and something I can't put my finger on. Those aromas came through in the flavour, as well. The only down side was it also had a pronounced alcohol flavour. Not an undrinkable, jet-fuel alcohol flavour, but enough that it was noticeable. I'm hoping that in time (another week or two) the flavours meld and soften a bit, but either way I'm still pretty happy with it. I definitely plan on re-brewing this one, following the recipe as written

Hey, @shellsbells -

I caught this reply over the weekend, but was up to my ears in things going on. Glad that you liked it, over-all!

Sorry to hear about the pronounced alcohol flavor. This is something I did not notice with mine, so I am not sure what the cause for it would be. If you don't mind, let me know what your results are with your next batch; maybe we can figure it out. The only different factor that I can think of is the possible factor of the extended fermentation, but I don't know if this would actually be the cause or not.

Keep with it!

Ron

Looking at the calendar, I decided to bump this one up, in case anyone might be interested in trying it.

For myself, I'm looking forward to brewing a spring batch, soon.

I'm set to brew this one again tonight or tomorrow; wish me luck!

I've decided to give the Kazbek hop a try this go-round, using a schedule that will amount to about the same IBUs. I could be wrong, but I think that the Kazbek will provide what I was kinda-sorta looking for with this recipe: a noble touch that still has those floral, slightly-citrusy notes.

I want to stress that the recipe is absolutely beautiful as-is, with the original Centennial and Amarillo hops. They work great together and seem to really add what I call an "alpine" touch to this beer, but curiosity is getting the better of me with this, and I think that the Kazbek is at least worth a try.

With the grains, everything will be the same; I briefly considered adding a bit more of that lovely, addicting Melanoidin, but ultimately decided not to do so, due to the delicate timing involved with this beer's fermentation. I wouldn't want to do anything that might inadvertently throw that crucial schedule off, resulting in an over- or under-carbed final product.

I'm not 100% sure, but I might actually have enough to make two (1-gallon) batches of this beer; this Edelweiß is so good that I wouldn't mind having 2 gallons on hand, or 5...or 10.... I will take a closer look at my inventory and - if I do have enough - I will brew one with the Kazbek substitution and the other with the Centennial and Amarillo hops, as written.

If anyone has tried this or plans to try this, please feel free to jump into the conversation. I'm a fan, and I'd like to spread this one around.

More as it happens, etc. & c....

Ron

PS - @shellsbells - did this one ever smooth out for you? Update, please!

Just made this beer and wanted to say thanks for the detailed thread here. Turned out really nice - softly carbonated, fresh spring taste, really easy drinker. I used the White Labs Hefeweizen yeast and made a two gallon batch. Bottled after three days - closer to 78 hours in the fermenter. Used swing-top bottles and so far no bottle bombs. Also bottled one in a plastic bottle so I could make sure it was carbonating.

Kawahomebrew said:

Just made this beer and wanted to say thanks for the detailed thread here. Turned out really nice - softly carbonated, fresh spring taste, really easy drinker. I used the White Labs Hefeweizen yeast and made a two gallon batch. Bottled after three days - closer to 78 hours in the fermenter. Used swing-top bottles and so far no bottle bombs. Also bottled one in a plastic bottle so I could make sure it was carbonating.

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Hi, Kawahomebrew - thanks for taking a moment to add your experience to this thread. In many ways, this is probably my favourite beer so far, and I'm really looking forward to brewing it again. It really is very much to my liking.

I had Lent services last night, and a book discussion afterwards, so I wasn't able to do the brewing I planned to do; however, I should be able to do so tonight. I am pretty sure that I have enough of all of my grains to make a double batch, so that is the plan. One will be with the Kazbek hop, and the other will probably be as-written, so I can compare them.

If you happen to get a photo, please post one. I intended to last time, but forgot. I most certainly will with this new batch, though!

For those interested, here's a profile of the Kazbek hop:

https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/hop-profile-kazbek

Updated label for this beer: