Another Black IPA critique request

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edb

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My first attempt at BIPA was basically a stout, the hops didn't work and the malt bill was all wrong. I've reviewed a number of the threads here picked up some interesting notes in the comments and tried to keep them in mind into coming up with this recipe.

5G batch
60min boil
1.074
77 IBU
36 SRM

10# Marris Otter
2# Munich
1# Dark Munich (more for flavor than color)
1# Midnight Wheat
.5# Special Roast **
1.0 oz Magnum @ 60 M
0.5 oz Citra @ 10 M
1.0 oz Amarillo @ 5 M
0.5 oz Centennial @ 5M
0.5 oz Citra @ 1M

Dry hop 4 day
1.0 oz Amarillo
0.5 oz Centennial

** Special Roast was an after thought its 3.5% of the grain bill was thinking to impart some slight roast to beer.

Yeast US05 or I could harvest a commercial yeast open to suggestions.

Mash @ 154
 
The midnight wheat will give you a little roast and a solid deep-red black. I would ditch one of the roasted grains to avoid hoppy stout again.
Also, those are very fruity hops. Just me but I'd lean more centennial. It's more personal taste but I like the more dank hops than fruit hops in my bipa. My .02...
 
I go higher gravity ~9% abv 70ish IBU and 1.084 and 26 SRM

74.7% Maris Otter
10.7% Brown Sugar
5.3% Victory
5.3% Crystal 60L
2.7% Blackprinz
1.3% Pale Chocolate


60 Mosaic
30 Chinook
12 Warrior
8 Mosaic
F/O Admiral

Dry hop
1oz Admiral & Warrior 4 days

I like wlp001/051
 
You can more than likely cut the special roast in half or all together. I've found it sometimes creates a sour-ish Roast character and it might clash. 8oz to me sounds heavy, but if you've used it in other beers and like it's general character then go for it (only giving personal experiences on it).

The Munich additions may be heavy but, that might be a good plan. Are you using Briess? There's some discussion that Briess Munich 10L imparts a distinct cherry character. If you get good attenuation the Munich additions shouldn't hurt. I tend to get 81-83% with US05 so that to me is the best choice.

I would watch fermentation carefully and when it starts to tail off check attenuation. With the Munich I would want to definitely push it under 1.015 with a sugar addition in the fermenter (8oz of invert sugar or a corn sugar). Black IPAs can quickly become a RIS without good attenuation, and the Munich is good for flavor but bad attenuation would accentuate the Munich maltiness.
 
Thanks for the feedback.

Jwin I have to look at my untappd checkins and review the BIPAs that I enjoyed for the hop profiles on them
Jeffers not wanting something that big yet, this will probably be brewed for Summer.
ArkoRamathorn Good info on the Munich I didnt know that about the Briess I was going to use Best Malz Munich.

I'll drop the roasted malt and add sugar to help attenuation.


Updated Malt bill:
11# Marris Otter
.75# Munich
.75# Vienna
1# Midnight Wheat
1# brown sugar
 
I go higher gravity ~9% abv 70ish IBU and 1.084 and 26 SRM

74.7% Maris Otter
10.7% Brown Sugar
5.3% Victory
5.3% Crystal 60L
2.7% Blackprinz
1.3% Pale Chocolate


60 Mosaic
30 Chinook
12 Warrior
8 Mosaic
F/O Admiral

Dry hop
1oz Admiral & Warrior 4 days

I like wlp001/051


I have a bipa kit with blackprinz and pale chocolate. How is the finish on it? Dry or lots of roast and sweetness?
 
Just found this on their site, Firestone Wookie Jack was one of the BIPAs that I liked. I think I'm sticking with the floral hops.


Beer Information

ABV: 8.3%

IBU: 80

COLOR: 45SRM

FERMENTATION: 100% Stainless Steel

MALTS: Pale Malt, Malted Rye, Dash of Cara-Rye, Midnight Wheat from Briess, De-Bittered Black Malt (Weyermann - Germany/Patagonia malting - Chile), Dash of Wookey dust

HOPS: German Magnum (bittering), Citra & Amarillo (flavor/aroma and double dry-hopped)
 
Been a couple years since I had WJ, but from what I remember it wasn't roasty at all. A touch of ash.
I'm guessing that's dehusked black malt, which basically is just black dye.
 
I have a bipa kit with blackprinz and pale chocolate. How is the finish on it? Dry or lots of roast and sweetness?

I did a late mash on the roasted grains. Added about 5 mins before mash out and it really did not get dry, it added a roasted aroma and obviously the color contribution. But the dark brown sugar and hops added great balance that the chocolate malt bitterness was subtle. Blackprinz close to a debittered black did not add much in the way of sweetness or astringent roasted flavors. I have been interested in the idea of trying that recipe with the cold steeping method on the roasted grains overnight.
 
IMO, you definitely need sugar in a black IPA or you are just making a hoppy stout/porter. Main key is to dry it out as much as possible. Highly attenuative yeast, mash low, etc

Another trick I picked up is to add some or all of your de-bittered black malts only at mashout. Using this method you can get a inky black color, with just the slightest hint of roast
 
The midnight wheat will give you a little roast and a solid deep-red black. I would ditch one of the roasted grains to avoid hoppy stout again.
Also, those are very fruity hops. Just me but I'd lean more centennial. It's more personal taste but I like the more dank hops than fruit hops in my bipa. My .02...

I agree.

A good Black IPA definitely needs some depth and Centennial or something earthy/piney would be a good choice.
 
I agree.

A good Black IPA definitely needs some depth and Centennial or something earthy/piney would be a good choice.

Agreed piney/earthy/dank is what I shoot for in black IPAs. Seems to work best with the slight roast. This is from a subsection of an article I did
Black IPA. These are tricky. My main goal here is to make something as far removed from a hoppy stout as possible. This means keeping it dry (notice a pattern here?), and minimizing roast flavors, while still achieving a pitch-black color. Unless you are using dyes, you will need some sort of roasted malt for color. De-bittered malts are definitely the way to go. I’ve used carafa III, blackprinz, and midnight wheat with success (midnight wheat being my preference). I’ve found one pound in a five-gallon batch will get you dark enough to not see through it at all. The thing is, even de-bittered malt retains some degree of roast. To keep this in check, I have been adding half of my darkening malt in the mash, and leaving out the other half until mashout. This seems to work very well. One other thing to note is the hop selection for Black IPAs. Not all hops lend themselves to the roasty flavors found in Black IPAs. I’ve found piney, resiny/dank, and citrusy hops work best for my tastes here.
 
Agreed piney/earthy/dank is what I shoot for in black IPAs. Seems to work best with the slight roast. This is from a subsection of an article I did
Black IPA. These are tricky. My main goal here is to make something as far removed from a hoppy stout as possible. This means keeping it dry (notice a pattern here?), and minimizing roast flavors, while still achieving a pitch-black color. Unless you are using dyes, you will need some sort of roasted malt for color. De-bittered malts are definitely the way to go. I’ve used carafa III, blackprinz, and midnight wheat with success (midnight wheat being my preference). I’ve found one pound in a five-gallon batch will get you dark enough to not see through it at all. The thing is, even de-bittered malt retains some degree of roast. To keep this in check, I have been adding half of my darkening malt in the mash, and leaving out the other half until mashout. This seems to work very well. One other thing to note is the hop selection for Black IPAs. Not all hops lend themselves to the roasty flavors found in Black IPAs. I’ve found piney, resiny/dank, and citrusy hops work best for my tastes here.

I know it is more of a variant by adding Rye, but Wookey Jack is (IMO) the benchmark for a good Black IPA.

When I do BIPA stuff, that is kind of what I try and shoot for. I did a Black Rye IPA last summer and it wasn't too far off the mark (not as hop forward though...).
 

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