The emergence of Corporate Homebrew Shops...and otherworldly pricing

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dosebloke

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Hey All,

I've been brewing for a couple of years and can say that from a customer service and supply perspective, homebrew shops in general that I've worked with are second to none than in any industry I've ever purchased from--every company wanting to help and support and always there when I need them or things don't go as planned in terms of quality of product, dissatisfaction, and so forth. I've purchased from places like Northern Brewer, Midwest Supply, Morebeer.com, Brewhardware.com, AIH.com, and some other regional shops (we don't have a comprehensive local shop anymore where I live, but we do have some small shops where I try to keep my business to support the local economy as much as possible...).

That said, I've noticed that places like Northern Brewer are continually marketing to the point that the cost is being passed on to the consumer at absolutely ridiculous prices. While Northern Brewer offers some of the best customer service and support options I've experienced, I'm seeing kits selling for $60 - $70 dollars in their latest catalog (say what???), which absolutely blows my mind, and kills the spirit of homebrewing--especially when I can piece together a similar recipe locally/regionally for $40-$50. Of course if you "play the game" and participate in the marketing and sales, you can get "discounts" but really, the discount is on an inflated price that simply brings it to a normal price and makes you think that you are getting a good deal, but really, you are just paying normal pricing. I'm beginning to be offended by this type of marketing and moving away from spending my hard earned dollar at places like this--I don't have time to play games and wait for "trick" sales and all that. So many times, companies spend money on marketing only to pass it on to the consumer, which is dishonest, and unfair. That said, there are many companies keeping it real with slight inflation around the economy, but I"m curious what others think.

I do recognize that many of the companies that play in this space support HBT, so I'm not trying to be disrespectful of those trying to grow the community, but in many ways these tactics change the spirit of what has drawn me to the homebrewing community to begin with. I recognize I have a choice where I spend my money, so at the end of the day, it's not a big deal, but just wanted to socialize this a bit...

What do others think?

Cheers,

Bugsy
 
IDK. I just looked at Northern Brewers website and looked at the extract kits. I brewed this one 5 years ago... Patersbier Extract Kit w/ Specialty Grains
From: $26.51 I think I paid at least $23 then.....

Yes there are some listed for $50 - $70. Look at the recipes. They are using a ton of hops that are some of the most expensive varieties....

Their prices have gone up some, but I doubt much out of line with any other homebrew supply retailer.

I did the Patersbier recipe with my own ingredients. It saved me about the same that you mentioned when sourcing your own ingredients. I would guess it cost me about $15 - $17

I like some of their promotions. I bought 2 for the price of one a couple of times saving me quite a bit of money.

Sorry, I just don't see the cost of marketing driving up the prices dramatically. I search around for the best prices and Northern Brewer is usually higher than the lowest that I can find but not the most expensive either.

I don't look at their special discounts too much, mostly because it is usually on hardware of which I no longer need.

So in essence, no I do not feel the same way...
 
I've always had good experiences with Adventures In Homebrewing in Ann Arbor. Great customer service, reasonable pricing. I've never ordered from any other company, so I really can't comment on that aspect.
 
13 pounds of grain, 2 pounds of honey, 4 1/2 oz hops For their HOPS LAMB IMPERIAL IPA kit at $71, some of the other kits are licensed by breweries so that drives the price up. Feel free to download the recipe(it is on the instruction sheet) and order it all separately yourself!
 
Having never had to order my kits or ingredients online because of my close proximity to an awesome LHBS, I feel like these retailers are meant for those who don't have a good LHBS, or are too busy/lazy to leave their house. In that case, you pay the cost for clicking a mouse instead of driving to a store. The prices don't seem too out of whack considering the convenience factor.
 
You definitely have to wait for sales on NB and Midwest, but there are great deals to be had from them. I like Morebeer as their prices seem pretty good everyday and free shipping too!
 
Hey All,

I've been brewing for a couple of years and can say that from a customer service and supply perspective, homebrew shops in general that I've worked with are second to none than in any industry I've ever purchased from--every company wanting to help and support and always there when I need them or things don't go as planned in terms of quality of product, dissatisfaction, and so forth. I've purchased from places like Northern Brewer, Midwest Supply, Morebeer.com, Brewhardware.com, AIH.com, and some other regional shops (we don't have a comprehensive local shop anymore where I live, but we do have some small shops where I try to keep my business to support the local economy as much as possible...).

That said, I've noticed that places like Northern Brewer are continually marketing to the point that the cost is being passed on to the consumer at absolutely ridiculous prices. While Northern Brewer offers some of the best customer service and support options I've experienced, I'm seeing kits selling for $60 - $70 dollars in their latest catalog (say what???), which absolutely blows my mind, and kills the spirit of homebrewing--especially when I can piece together a similar recipe locally/regionally for $40-$50. Of course if you "play the game" and participate in the marketing and sales, you can get "discounts" but really, the discount is on an inflated price that simply brings it to a normal price and makes you think that you are getting a good deal, but really, you are just paying normal pricing. I'm beginning to be offended by this type of marketing and moving away from spending my hard earned dollar at places like this--I don't have time to play games and wait for "trick" sales and all that. So many times, companies spend money on marketing only to pass it on to the consumer, which is dishonest, and unfair. That said, there are many companies keeping it real with slight inflation around the economy, but I"m curious what others think.

I do recognize that many of the companies that play in this space support HBT, so I'm not trying to be disrespectful of those trying to grow the community, but in many ways these tactics change the spirit of what has drawn me to the homebrewing community to begin with. I recognize I have a choice where I spend my money, so at the end of the day, it's not a big deal, but just wanted to socialize this a bit...

What do others think?

Cheers,

Bugsy

Companies have to advertise to compete with other companies. It costs money to do so, but the company gains more business by advertising than they would have without it. An online retailer can't rely on proximity or word of mouth to gain customers like a local store can, so they have to advertise. It is neither dishonest, nor unfair to do so. So no, I have to say I don't agree with what you are saying about online brew stores.

For the record, I don't own any type of store, especially a large online store, and do not know personally anyone who does.
 
Totally agree. I've found morebeer to be one of my favorites in terms of consistent pricing and great shipping/service, but I also live very close to the distribution center on the West Coast, so that helps. No, I don't have any affiliation, just love the service. I agree on the hunt for sales... That's the only way to save.... Sometimes I would rather skip the sale, and just get a median price consistently, even if it's a bit more $, but without the hassle of hunting and waiting, but c'est la vie....
 
Having never had to order my kits or ingredients online because of my close proximity to an awesome LHBS, I feel like these retailers are meant for those who don't have a good LHBS, or are too busy/lazy to leave their house. In that case, you pay the cost for clicking a mouse instead of driving to a store. The prices don't seem too out of whack considering the convenience factor.

Good points!
 
13 pounds of grain, 2 pounds of honey, 4 1/2 oz hops For their HOPS LAMB IMPERIAL IPA kit at $71, some of the other kits are licensed by breweries so that drives the price up. Feel free to download the recipe(it is on the instruction sheet) and order it all separately yourself!

I can see the licensing part playing a role.... Adds expense and makes sense!
 
I've always had good experiences with Adventures In Homebrewing in Ann Arbor. Great customer service, reasonable pricing. I've never ordered from any other company, so I really can't comment on that aspect.

I agree. Some great pricing and excellent service. I've learned quite a bit from these folks and find them to be very personalized in their service and overall pricing is great.
 
I agree with the OP about pricing of these big guys seemingly being high. One would expect with the kind of volume they sell, the pricing should/could be lower then the average LHBS. Luckily I don't have far to drive to save.
 
Just start buying base grains in bulk and specialty grains by the pound. ANY kit is overpriced. That's the premium you pay for not having to individually source each item and not having to come up with a recipe yourself. Its teh same as pre-packaged family meals to cook.

Only thing that would even come close to $70 for me would be the giant double IPA I do every other month or so
 
The whole "buy local" issue has been around since Malls started killing Main Streets in the 50s and 60s, and then Wal-Mart took over in the 70s and 80s.

Wal-Mart is now being contested by the Internet, and local stores have remained under pressure the whole time--those that aren't out of business.

To succeed any business must supply something others do not--convenience, locale, advice, price, selection, in-stock, whatever. As long as a LHBS can support local homebrewers with any of the above, they'll be able to compete. Unfortunately for a lot of LHBS, some of their edge is slowly being removed.

My LHBS is about 30 minutes away, about a 45 mile round trip. The owner is very open with his advice, and will help troubleshoot. I repay him with my business, but even then, I buy a lot of stuff online.

His advice isn't a competitive edge any more, unfortunately. Northern Brewer has their brewmasters available by chat, and a place like HomeBrewTalk is also an excellent source of information and question-answering.

Where a LHBS shines (IMO) is when you're suddenly out of something. Don't have the right hops or yeast? Just a short visit away.

The other thing that many shop owners do is support a local homebrew group, trying to maintain a sort of brewing community among locals.

For me, I can get next-day deliveries from RiteBrew, whose prices are quite competitive. Whatever shipping costs I might incur are oddly similar to the cost of driving 45 miles round-trip.
 
Having never had to order my kits or ingredients online because of my close proximity to an awesome LHBS, I feel like these retailers are meant for those who don't have a good LHBS, or are too busy/lazy to leave their house. In that case, you pay the cost for clicking a mouse instead of driving to a store. The prices don't seem too out of whack considering the convenience factor.

My LHBSs are more expensive than buying online. I can buy a 55lb sack of grain and pay $18 for shipping and come out ahead vs buying at my local home brew shop. The online retailers also often have things that I can't get at the LHBS. That said I like both my local brew shops and spend money in them regularly.
 
My LHBSs are more expensive than buying online. I can buy a 55lb sack of grain and pay $18 for shipping and come out ahead vs buying at my local home brew shop. The online retailers also often have things that I can't get at the LHBS. That said I like both my local brew shops and spend money in them regularly.

where do you get that $18 sack o grain?
 
Yeah, my LHBS prices everything at about lowest internet price plus shipping, which is fine when I only need one of something that day, but once I get to 2 or 3 Rite-Brew comes in less and it's next day.

I have a hard time paying $1/lb ($50) for Rahr 2-row when I can get it from a group buy or at another brew shop along the way of a road trip for $33.

I mean I want to support the guy, but I am not running a charity.

Having said that, Northern Brewer's prices have been going up over the last couple of years faster than their competitors. You more or less have to wait for a sale to buy from them. They have never been the cheapest anyway. So the OP isn't completely wrong with this.
 
While Northern Brewer offers some of the best customer service and support options I've experienced, I'm seeing kits selling for $60 - $70 dollars in their latest catalog (say what???), which absolutely blows my mind, and kills the spirit of homebrewing--especially when I can piece together a similar recipe locally/regionally for $40-$50.

13 pounds of grain, 2 pounds of honey, 4 1/2 oz hops For their HOPS LAMB IMPERIAL IPA kit at $71, some of the other kits are licensed by breweries so that drives the price up. Feel free to download the recipe(it is on the instruction sheet) and order it all separately yourself!

I'm looking at the NB kits and I only see two that are in the 60-70$ range. The Hops Lamb mentioned with the clover honey actually has 11 oz of hops, and then the Zombie dust clone at $61 has a half lb of citra to jack up the price. Dead Ringer is $41, and there are lots of other mid gravity ales in the $25-35 range. These prices don't seem that out of line with what I see elsewhere or at the LBHS (which happens to be Morebeer for me). As someone mentioned you are paying for convenience with kits, you can always save by buying in bulk and putting together your own.
 
My favorite LHBS recently--and seemingly overnight--raised all their prices by 15-20%. They used to be the cost-competitive option vs. online, not so much now. Plus as someone earlier said, the need for beginner advise (like you'd get at a good LHBS) is dwindling for me. And finding parking to shop there is a real crapshoot, like one chance in five (that shop does not have their own parking).

And yet they're still cheaper, better-stocked, and have FAR FAR better service than any other LHBS I've checked out around here.

And if I need some piece of equipment more fancy than a bucket, spigot or a length of vinyl tubing, online is unquestionably better for both pricing and availability.

So to sum up, I find myself more and more buying online...and going to the LHBS only if I forgot to order an ingredient or if I decide to make a last-minute brewday change or some such.

P.S., I'm betting virtually all HBS's are "corporate"...I doubt there are very many running a "3rd grade lemonade stand" business model.
 
P.S., I'm betting virtually all HBS's are "corporate"...I doubt there are very many running a "3rd grade lemonade stand" business model.

I do not think this is true. I know very few LHBS that are corporate. Most of the ones I know if were started by homebrewers.
 
I do not think this is true. I know very few LHBS that are corporate. Most of the ones I know if were started by homebrewers.

I mean "corporate" as in "are incorporated." Am I wrong? Do most LHBS's operate without the protections of incorporation? That would surprise me.
 
My LHBSs are more expensive than buying online.

Me too. I have 2 LHBSs. Both are small, one caters more to wine making, the other more to extract brewers. I've priced out several NB kits, both all grain and extract, and it's always cheaper for me to buy online even when you factor in shipping. Plus both LHBSs have more limited selection and their yeast is sometimes borderline out of date. Northern Brewer's ingredients and yeast have always been very fresh.

The exception is bulk grain -- that's cheaper if I buy locally because of shipping.
 
I mean "corporate" as in "are incorporated." Am I wrong? Do most LHBS's operate without the protections of incorporation? That would surprise me.

How can you tell?

I had a golf clubmaking business for years, and I had an LLC as the basis of my business registration. If LHBS's are anything at all, I'd bet they're an LLC, not incorporated.

Incorporation involves all kinds of complications that are nonexistent with an LLC.
 
How can you tell?

I had a golf clubmaking business for years, and I had an LLC as the basis of my business registration. If LHBS's are anything at all, I'd bet they're an LLC, not incorporated.

Incorporation involves all kinds of complications that are nonexistent with an LLC.

And the "C" in "LLC" stands for...what exactly?
 
How can you tell?

I had a golf clubmaking business for years, and I had an LLC as the basis of my business registration. If LHBS's are anything at all, I'd bet they're an LLC, not incorporated.

Incorporation involves all kinds of complications that are nonexistent with an LLC.

And the "C" in "LLC" stands for...what exactly?

Company. What did you think it stood for?

http://info.legalzoom.com/llc-mean-end-company-name-4496.html
 
I agree that there are a couple of retailers with an online presence that spend a ton of money on marketing, and seem to be higher-priced as a result. But if anyone thinks these are online-only stores, they are mistaken. Some have multiple physical locations, as well as their sizable online business. I doubt they need to do all that marketing, but instead do it because they can.

Voice your opinion with your wallet. If I don't find a sufficient value for my dollar, a place doesn't get my business. And, honestly, the businesses being alluded to here don't get my money.
 
I still say the prices the online retailers charge are not excessive, to supposedly pay for the marketing. Some are a bit higher, some are a bit lower, most will be lower than a brick and mortar "local" homebrew supply store. I get my sacks of grain at my LHBS and can beat the online stores only because of the shipping charges. Everything else is a little more expensive locally.

The $60 - $70 kits opined about in the OP are really the exception and reflect large amounts of costly ingredients, and probably have about the same markup as the simple $25 - $30 kits also available...

I think the whole rant is misguided or misinformed. I do not agree.
 
Aren't all of us here free to choose whatever source of supplies we want, balancing price, convenience, stock, and any other factors important to us?

Just because someone spends a lot on advertising doesn't mean I need to patronize them. But I might, depending on...whatever.

We're all free to choose. Revel in that freedom!
 
My lhbs prices are not much different than NB. I love going to the homebrew shop and they usually have everything I need so that's where I do most of my shopping:tank:. But I will say, NB ingredients are typically packed excellent and their flat rate shipping on most items is great. I recently purchased three of their kits on sale for $60 + $7.99 shipped. One of the kits I would have been hard pressed to get the hops alone for $20. And a penny under 8 bucks for shipping over 60 lbs of goods isn't too shabby in my book.
 
Brewing for a consistent 8 years here. My LHBS prices correlate pretty well with the MoreBeer prices so I shop local. Haven't bought a kit in at least six years but I always assumed you are paying for the convenience. A 70 dollar kit does seem excessive until you realize it contains 2 lb of honey (probably local). **** ain't cheap.....
 
My suggestion would be to not buy kits. Make up your own recipes or piece one together from the recipe forum here. You'll save money and the end result is much more satisfying in my opinion.
 
My LHBSs are more expensive than buying online. I can buy a 55lb sack of grain and pay $18 for shipping and come out ahead vs buying at my local home brew shop. The online retailers also often have things that I can't get at the LHBS. That said I like both my local brew shops and spend money in them regularly.
So where are you getting your bulk grains? And whats the out the door price? I pay $50 for 2 row at LHBS.Ive never seen it cheaper online after shipping
 
So where are you getting your bulk grains? And whats the out the door price? I pay $50 for 2 row at LHBS.Ive never seen it cheaper online after shipping

IME, If you can schmooze with a local brewery, you can get bulk grains at a large discount. The 2 breweries near me will sell me base malts at cost to them. Like $30 per bag. If you play your cards right, you may even get them for free

FYI, It helps if you bring them beer
 
What m00ps said. I was able to get a bag of Maris Otter for free from a brewery after offering to pay for a bag. They ended up saying just take one.
 
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