Das OtterWeizen

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TasunkaWitko

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
2,824
Reaction score
984
Location
Chinook
Tonight, I brewed my first beer using a recipe that I had developed from scratch. I'm sure it won't be perfect, but we'll see what happens.

Here are the particulars:

Das OtterWeizen
(Name inspired by @jjeffers09)

ABV - 5.61%
IBU - 23.36

Batch size - 1 gallon

1 pound Maris Otter
1 pound wheat

60-minute mash between 144 and 152 degrees

60-minute boil

0.10 oz Mandarina Bavaria at beginning of boil
0.10 oz East Kent Golding at 30 minutes
0.10 oz Saaz with 5 minutes left in the boil

Yeast - 5.5g of DanStar Munich

The brew went off with no trouble at all; in fact, it almost seemed too easy. Mash temperatures effortlessly stayed well within the range described above, the sparge went very quickly, and the boil was without incident. After cooling the wort down below 70 degrees, I pitched the yeast with no trouble, and the fermenter is now sitting in my closet with ambient temperatures in the high 60s. I'm considering bumping that up a bit, in order to promote some of the banana and clove highlights that German wheat beers are famous for.

I went back and forth over which hops to use and finally settled on an English hop, a German hop and a noble hop, added in descending order according to alpha acids. This is all a little more elaborate than my usual usage of hops, but I figured it couldn't hurt, and my hope is that it will produce a beer with mild bitterness and a fair amount of aroma.

My first impression is that the hops here might be a bit on the subtle side. It is possible that I would have been better off with .15 oz of each hop, rather than .10, but I am happy to wait and see the final result before passing judgement. In any case, it sure smells good, and makes an interesting companion to the unique qualities of the Maris Otter.

I considered throwing the peel from one orange into the boil with 2 minutes left, but elected not to. This is definitely something to consider in the future, as it would add a little bitterness and, of course, flavour.

As far as I know, things are off to a good start, and I am eager to see what I end up with. Assuming that fermentation kicks off as I expect it to, I'll replace the blow-off tube with an airlock on Sunday.

Feedback, comments and questions are always welcome. I am still new to brewing, and consider myself very much a novice. If I committed any glaring errors, please feel free to let me know. If I'm on to something good, please feel free to let me know that, as well!

More as it happens, etc. &c.

Ron
 
Looks good! A little high on the IBU, German wheats have pretty subtle hop. You don't want anything competing with that clove phenolic flavors that is so sought after in the style. I really like Mandarina Bavaria. Its a great hop! Keep a close eye on those temps, hold it ~65Fish for the first couple of days. Then let it ride up to 68-70F for the last 8 days to work out any off flavors. Buttery Diacetyl is never good in a wheat beer.

to answer from your other post. WP is whirlpool, after the boil ends. Swirl your wort around and bring it to 170F then let it stand for about 20 mins or so with your hops added at flameout. You swirl up the wort so the vortex pulls all the protein sediment/hops and break materials to the center of the pot so you can drain clear-er wort and so you can utilize a big fresh hop finish on super hoppy beers. In a german wheat you want to pull that protein sediment from your high amounts of wheat into the center and don't want/ but wont affect the flavor if you do in my experience/ into the fermenter.
http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/03/hoppy-beers-and-whirlpool-hops.html
 
Sounds good and makes sense! I dialed back the temperature as soon as I read this - hopefully, things will be alright.

Thanks for the whirlpooling explanation, too! The strange thing about this brew is that there didn't seem to be much sediment, except that from the hops. Even the sparge was ridiculously free of any sticking or slowing up.

We'll see how it goes!
 
I forgot to mention, I took a peek at the beer this morning, and it looks as though fermentation is off to a good start. No bubbling from the blow-off tube yet (this would have been about 7 hours after pitching yeast), but it looks as though it is getting ready to go; the wort is all churned up and there's a pretty good head of foam and the beginnings of krausen on top of the wort.

One interesting thing is the colour of the wort; I thought last night that this beer was going to come out darker than expected, but this morning it is looking almost exactly as Brewer's Friend predicted; a nice, golden butterscotch colour that looks really inviting.

That's all I have for now; hopefully, I'll be able to report that fermentation is in full-swing later today when I get home from work!

Ron
 
You can't really judge the beer color early in the fermentation process while lots of yeast is in suspension - it makes it look lighter. You should end up with suspended yeast, but probably less than you have now.
 
Good to know, ncbrewer - thanks!

I checked on it when I got home; fermentation is definitely happening, and I'm getting a krausen, but nothing's really coming out of the blow-off tube yet. The yeasts I normally use (I assume some sort of Belgian yeast, maybe?) start out quite quickly, then go like gangbusters until Day 3, when things slow down. This is my first time using any other yeast, so it's all a new experience.

I'll report more as it happens ~
 
I would check the edges of the bucket or spray with soapy water to see if you have cracks that are leaking co2 if you are in plastic, I assume you are when you say you took a peek? Also abundant headspace but you should be seeing some action in your blow off tube...
 
Hey, jeffers09 -

I'm fermenting in a 1-gallon glass fermenter/jug, with a screw-top lid that has a hole in it. The only appreciable neck space is the neck of the fermenter.

About an hour after I posted above, I checked again - and we're definitely going now. The blow-off tube has a steady blip-blip-blip going, and the the krausen is taking on some body.

We're making beer, for sure!
 
Fermentation proceeded nicely over the weekend, slowing down a bit on Saturday and dropping to a crawl that evening. Yesterday, I swapped out the blow-off tube for an air lock, where fermentation can finish off at a leisurely pace.

The beer is looking great so far. The colour is looking nice; sort of between butterscotch and caramel. I'm not sure how it will end up looking in the end, but Im liking what I see right now.

I also caught a whiff of the aroma that is developing; it's really nice! This hop combination/schedule is something that I just knocked together, but it might prove to be a good one - time will tell.

More as it happens ~
 
I looked in on this beer today - ambient temperatures were a little low, so I bumped them up a bit.

Colour is great, and I'm really liking what's going on with the hops. This could indeed be interesting, and good.

There is one heck of a lot of trub forming here - not unexpected, considering that it's half wheat, but it would be nice to not have quite so much.
 
For future reference, would rice hulls/Irish moss/anything else have kept the trub from being this thick, or is it simply the price paid for brewing a beer that is 50% wheat?
 
Hefeweizen is cloudy and smooth, krystalweizen is filtered, they taste great. But a great Hefe is all about that cloudy, yeasty flavors. Plus as you cold crash that sediment will thin down a bit
 
Sounds good!

I'm not so much worried about the clarity of the beer as I am about the amount of sediment on the bottom of the fermenter. With only a 1-gallon batch, I don't want to lose any more beer than necessary!
 
I looked in on this beer again today, and either the sediment situation wasn't nearly as bad as I had originally thought, or it has settled quite a bit. In any case, the level only slightly more than normal, now. I'm guessing I'll still only get 9 beers at most out of this batch, but that's a big improvement over what I was figuring a day or two ago.

We're cruising along on schedule - I like what I am seeing at this point, and am really eager to try it when I bottle in a couple of weeks.
 
Here is a label that I put together for this beer -

Das%20OtterWeizen%20Label%20Small.jpg


I usually allow 3 weeks total for fermentation; we're about halfway through that time period now, and I expect to bottle this beer the weekend after this one. I checked on it this morning and it is looking good; smelling good and hopefully turning into something really special.

More as it happens, etc. &c....

Ron
 
To all -

I am considering dry-hopping a bit with the Mandarina Bavaria hops - 0.10 oz for a week.

My intention is to impart a little of that Mandarina Bavaria aroma into the beer; however, my concern is that in doing so, I might interfere with the Saaz hops that are already there.

Any opinions or advice on this concept would be appreciated -

Ron
 
Sweet mandarin orange and spicy herbal saaz is not a bad combination. I like it, I have brewed it. Although when you dry hop it takes away from malt and yeast aromas. I would take into consideration how does the beer smell to you? Does it need more complexity in the aroma? If so then go for it...
 
That makes good sense. I'll give the beer an "aromatic evaluation" when I get home, and see if it could use a little something extra.

I checked it out yesterday, but I wasn't doing it with this in mind. It smelled really nice, and I liked it so far, but it did, if I remember orrectly, seem a little subtle. I'll pay a bit more attention tonight.
 
You know, thinking about this based just on the descriptions, this really might be some interesting stuff. I haven't tasted it yet, of course, but from descriptions of the ingredients, I see rich nuttiness (and a bit of orange) from the Maris Otter, some bread and yeast from the wheat, a little bananas and cloves from the yeast, spiciness from the Saaz, tangerine from the Mandarina Bavaria and the earthy, floral notes from the East Kent Golding.

Could I have some sort of fruitcake or holiday beer happening?!?!? :eek:
 
Last night, 8 June, I put this brew in to cold-crash. I'll bottle it sometime this weekend.

It looked and smelled pretty good, so we'll see what we end up with!
 
I bottled my OtterWeizen today, 12 June. For this 1-gallon batch, I got 9 bottles, which seems to be about the norm.

I had just enough left over for a very small sample, and I was eager to see how this experimental recipe would taste.

Keeping in mind that this is not the final flavour of the beer (time in the bottle does change it, as it carbonates, develops and matures), I found it to be very good and certainly interesting. The Maris Otter has a lot of character of its own, and the wheat was a good match for it.

The hops might have been just a tad bitter, but we'll see how it turns out after a few weeks and carbonation. I didn't catch any of the citrus notes that the Mandarina Bavaria hop is famous for, but that might be my fault; I had intended to dry-hop for a few days with a little of the Mandarina Bavaria, but forgot to do so. The Saaz and East Kent Golding seemed to play well together, and I am reasonably certain that this combination was a good choice.

Conclusion: at this early stage, it seems like I've got a nice thing going here - we'll see in a couple of weeks!
 
I sampled this beer last night; it's still pretty young - perhaps the youngest that I've ever sampled a beer - but I was impressed, and this beer definitely deserves some consideration in the future. I'll have more to say later, but here are a few first impressions.

Appearance - on the lighter side, but with an obvious hue contributed by the Maris Otter - maybe like light butterscotch or straw...or a light honey. I'm not good at descriptions like this but will try to get a photo next time. It was mostly clear with a little bit of cloudiness, presumably due to the "weizen heritage." The beer poured with a very nice, white head that I think will get creamier as it develops in the bottle over time. The thing that I liked about this was that it was one of the few where I got some definite, undeniable lacing on the mug that lasted throughout the time that the beer was in there.

Aroma - this was a but muddled; having said that, it was good. It is probably just wishful thinking on my part, but I believe there was some nuttiness in there as well, once again from the Maris Otter. This (or something) did seem to compete a bit with the hops, but I can't say for sure as I am in relatively uncharted territory, at least for my experience.

Taste - Very good indeed, with some room for improvement, I am sure. Carbonation was good, maybe just a bit high, but nothing terrible. Considering my method ("guesstimating" with honey, maple syrup, agave etc., using about 2 tablespoons per gallon as an average), I can't complain at all. The beer itself had a honey-like quality, along with this nuttiness from the Maris Otter - if I throw some oats in this in the future, maybe I have the potential for some sort of Honey-Nut Cheerios thing - I'm not sure. As noted above, the hops seem a bit muddled. It was just a slight hair too bitter, I think, with no real flavour contribution that was immediately discernible, except for just a hint from the Saaz. I didn't immediately detect any of the banana, clove or bubble gum that I expected from the Bavarian yeast; but then again, there was something in the background that could have been it. I'm not sure. The finish was good, and kept me reaching for the mug. There was something there that I couldn't exactly identify - not good or bad, but different.

I shared this beer with my dad, who is a fan of beers at the lighter end of the spectrum. He was much less wordy than I am above, and kept it simple: "this looks like beer and states good."

Conclusion - a little more bottle conditioning will definitely improve this beer, but it really was bloody good to begin with, considering that the entire recipe was a complete guess on my part, every step of the way. I do think that some modification of the hops schedule is warranted for the future; the first thing that came to mind was to switch the Mandarina Bavaria and East Kent Golding hops, using the former for flavor and the latter for bittering. As for the Saaz; I'm thinking that I might want to perhaps double it, next time - or at least add it at knock-out, rather than at 5 minutes. Another possible tweak might be in adding some form of oats, as mentioned above. I may also add some honey at knock-out, in order to develop this unexpected characteristic that cropped up in the results.

I will go over these ideas a bit in my head and come up with a plan. For now, the recipe will stay as-is, pending development. Any thoughts would definitely be appreciated, and I'll try to get a photo posted the next time I open one up.
 
Not that oats wouldn't taste bad by any means in a hefe, but most stick to wheat. I suggest torrified or flaked wheat, and save the oats for a good stout

**Edit - just as a point of reference weissbiers are 3.2-5vols. While most authentic Bavarian brews are poured in 3 stages to make it fit in the glass...
 
The flaked wheat might be the ticket, jeff - I hadn't thought of that. A bit of toasty or maybe biscuit flavor in there somehow would really knock this beer out of the park, I think.

These results posted above weren't quite what I expected, but I really like them - I think there's some real potential here for something good, and possibly a bit unique.
 
Try swapping 50% Maris Otter to 25% 25% with Vienna/Munich with Maris Otter

Or 50/40/10 wheat, maris otter, caravienna or caramunich. Oh and liberty and mandarina wouldn't be bad
 
I can probably do that - I have some Munich available to me, just enough to try as you suggest. Thanks!
 
I cracked open another one of these last night (original recipe in opening post), and was very pleasantly surprised with how the beer has been developing. The flavours have smoothed out quite a bit and the head has gotten even creamier and fluffier than it was before - very nice there. It also seemed that the beer had cleared a little bit more, as well.

Flavour was pretty good before, but it has improved quite a bit, toward something that was very nice indeed. The malt characteristics have really started to come out, while the Saaz gave it a nice, noble finish - as I said before, I'm not too good at describing things like this, but that's a close indicator. The beer was just a hair bitter to my taste, but in reality I don't think that it was out-of-line very much, if at all. My own preference is toward less-bitter, maltier beers, so it could be that my own prejudices are speaking here, but I might back off on the IBUs just a bit next time - but really, not much - maybe from 23.36 (current) to around 19 or 20.

Aroma was still a bit off. It wasn't bad, but it wasn't overly-pleasant, either. It was just....muddled. As mentioned above, I will try reversing the first two hop additions next time, and see if there is any improvement; if not, I will cut out one (Mandarina Bavaria) or the other (East Kent Golding) and just use one hop at 60 and 30, along with the Saaz at the end. I would lean toward keeping East Kent Golding, but am of course always open to suggestions.

In all, this recipe is a keeper - it just needs a bit of tweaking where the hops are concerned. I'd be tempted to body it up just a bit; but on the other hand, it really doesn't need it. I'll probably try the Vienna/Munich in a future brew, and see what it does for the whole. I might also add a bit of honey at the end of the boil. Other than that, no need to mess with a good thing.

If anyone tries this, let me know what you think of it.

Thanks -

Ron
 
Well, it took a while, but this beer has really come into its own. The flavour has always been great, but the aroma was a little ... "muddled," for lack of a better word. Now, with my last beer of the batch, I noticed that the hops and aroma have balanced out really nicely, and I really like it. I think that this recipe might be a keeper, but I'd like to experiment a bit by reversing the first two hop additions before saying for sure.

Here's a picture of the beer, which had a wonderful, creamy head:

DasOtterweizen.jpg


The flavour, aroma and other characteristics came together really well this time. A little time in the bottle (about 2 months after carbonation, by my reckoning) seems to have achieved the balance I was looking for. It was just a tiny bit bitter for my own personal tastes, but to anyone else, I am betting it was just right; the bitterness was not over-powering, but such that it gave the beer just a bit of a bite, which is probably what it should be doing.

Not bad at all for a first attempt at a completely from-scratch brew!
 
I've been thinking about this, and now I am wondering - is it "normal" for hops to come forward after some time in the bottle? I would have through that under most circumstances, they would fall back a bit.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd be grateful. The hops aromas were definitely more developed as time passed - they started out very "non-descript" with the first bottle I tried, but by the final one (2 months or so later), they had settled in very nicely, giving a wonderful aroma and adding a nice, crisp character that complimented the beer very well. I'm not complaining at all, I am just not sure of the reason.

Thanks in advance -

Ron
 
I've been thinking about making this beer again, later this winter, and have been wondering about possible improvements. The malts in this beer are excellent, and the Bavarian yeast works well, I think, But the hops were a muddled mess for quite a long time.

Thanks to an excellent suggestion from @jjeffers09, I have decided that the next time I make this, I will try Kazbek hops. Judging by his account of them, and the descriptions I've read, they might be just what I am looking for. I've ordered some and will brew this sometime this winter. Will report.
 
Today, 20 February 2017, I brewed this beer again.

In order to be able to measure the effect, I only changed one thing compared to the first time I made this. Instead of the scrambled mess of a hops schedule that I had before, I chose one hop: the Kazbek that @jjeffers09 had recommended. According the its profile, it looks like the Kazbek might achieve something close to (or better than) what I was trying to do with my combination of hops that I used for my first attempt. You can read more about Kazbek hops here:

https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/hop-profile-kazbek

My thanks to jjeffers09 for this recommendation! :mug:

The brew went quite well, with no complications. I'll post updates as they happen.

Ron
 
A couple of stats I neglected to mention:

a) The Kazbek hops that I have come in at 4.1% AA

b) I added 0.1 oz @ 60, 0.1 oz @ 30 and 0.1 oz @ 1 minute left in the boil.

c) The adjusted IBUs for this updated version of Das Otterweizen are 15.09; to my knowledge, this puts the bitterness more in line with what would be expected from a wheat beer.
 
I took a peek at this beer last night, and it looks as though everything is on schedule.

It looked exactly as I have described before, with my first brew, and smelled very good. The Kazbek hops seemed to be having their desired effect, as I did detect a bit of brightness that was just slightly "citrusy," which made a nice accent to the expected earthy and spicy qualities found in its parent, the Saaz hop. The citrus touch was reminiscent - to me - of lemon, but it wasn't over-whelming or over-powering...just there, riding gently above the other aromas of the beer.

I'll most likely bottle it the second weekend in March - maybe a few days before; at that time, I'll probably have a little left over for a sample, and we can get an idea of what we're ending up with.
 
I put this second batch of Das OtterWeizen in to cold-crash last night, 8 March 2017. I did this mostly to compact the sediment a bit, in order to insure that I get as much as I can into the bottles.

It was looking pretty good, with the same colour as before, and a nice, fresh aroma that might (or might not) have had just a touch of sulfur in it. I'm not sure what the reason for that would be, but it has happened before on another hefeweizen that I made, and the final product did not suffer for it.

We'll see where we end up.
 
I bottled my second brewing of this beer on 15 March, 2017.

Note to self - I used the "Gold" caps for this brew.

For carbonation, I used Brewer's Best Conditioning Tablets:

http://a.co/c2t2lox

81T%2BOGwCzdL._SL1500_.jpg


I am a big fan of these tablets, for two reasons: a) they give very consistent, reliable results and b) a person is able to tailor the amount of carbonation with them - ranging from low to medium to high - in order to push the beer in a desired direction. I was looking for a medium carbonation with this beer, so I used 4 tablets per bottle. They are made from corn sugar, which as far as I can tell is the standard for priming sugar in homebrewing.


Thanks to cold-crashing and care taken when racking, I was able to get 9 bottles from this batch. The beer was fairly clear, with a slight wheat haze, and looked really nice, with a colour somewhere between straw and butterscotch. As before, there was a slight orange tinge to it, presumably from the Maris Otter. It smelled really, really good, with a bready, malty quality accented by the promised attributes of the Kazbek hops: floral, earthy, spicy...with a nice, unobtrusive overlay that is slightly citrusy (lemon). This hop has been described as "like Saaz, but turned up to 11," and based on my limited experience with Saaz, I'd say that it is an accurate description.

I had just barely enough left over for a small sample, and found the first impression of my second brew of this beer to be very positive. This is not carbonated yet, of course, but based on the first brewing and this sample, it is proving to be a great malt combination, with the best characteristics of both the Maris Otter and the wheat working quite well together to produce a malty, bready, slightly-nutty ale with what seems to be great body and a tasty, almost addicting flavor. My previous brewing of this beer revealed some hop issues that could best be described as "muddled" in aroma and flavor; this is not surprising, considering my overly-complicated hop additions, but early indications are that this second brewing using just one hop has solved that issue, and I am very grateful to @jjeffers09 for suggesting the Kazbek hop. The bitterness seems to be just right - low, but noticeable and in good proportion. The previously-mentioned characteristics of the Kazbek hop appear to be just the right thing for this beer. I was immediately a big fan, and anticipate that everything will work very well together once there has been some time to carbonate and condition.

I'll be able to properly sample this beer in about 2 weeks or so, and will have more on it, then. We're still a little early to say for sure, but I think that I might finally have this recipe dialed in where I want it to be!:mug:
 
Back
Top