Packaged DME starters? With or without nutrient?

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I have a thread here on HBT for a killer deal on PBW I am repacking and during the discussion on board and in several PM's there seems to be a little interest in prepackaged DME perfect for various sized starters.
I have a new packing machine being built for us and I want to get some ideas on what to repack to offer at discount. The idea came up so I wanted to get some feed back before diving into it full tilt.
I have been packaging a starter pack for small starters for several years now called YEAST BEAST but I have ONLY sold it in 2.25 oz packs for small starters designed around our canning jar starter kits.

http://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/Yeast_Beast_Refill.html

The big questions I have are, IF you were to buy a package already set up for a yeast starter
1. What ounce size packs would you like to see?

2. Would you like to see starter packs for 500 ml, 1000ml, 2000ml, 4000ml AND 5000ml starters?

3. Would you want the nutrients already mixed into the starter so there is nothing else to do but cut the package, dump it in and be done with it? Or just pre measured DME?



Just a little HBT market research and open a discussion. I am sure I wont be able to serve everyone's ideas but I bet we can get close for ya :D

Cheers
Jay
 
Just my input on pricing, but there is a product out there called "Fast Pitch" which allows you to not even have to make the starter. You just pour your yeast in it and call it a day. This product is priced at $2.50 a can which is sized for a 1.0L starter. Hopefully this pre-measured DME will be a reasonable price in comparison to something that you don't even have to boil.

As for my opinion on your question, I mostly make 1.25L starters regularly. Just happens to be the perfect amount for cell count that I need and harvest a small amount from it. To use one of your packages I would still have to measure/remove something. I would probably like nutrient already mixed in to make it simple!
 
It might make more sense for you and give the customer more flexibility if you have something like 250 mL and 1000 mL sizes, then you could combine a couple of each to achieve whatever volume starter is intended. For example, I typically make 3.5L starters so I would order two of the 250 mL size and three of the 1L size. That way you're only packaging and storing two different sizes, while the customer can get exactly what they need.

+1 for nutrient mixed in.
 
Incorporating some anti-foam agent in the packets would be cheap and add value. Liquid fermcap is probably not the best option, but any of the Gas-X type substitutes could be had in powdered or chewable form.

"with our proprietary anti-foaming blend, flask boil-overs are a thing of the past!"


[edit] $1/L is about what my DME starters are costing when I pick up a pound or two of DME from the LHBS. I could see going a little higher for a pre-packaged deal, but like arno said earlier, you'll be competing against Fast-Pitch which has the big benefit of eliminating the boil.
 
Incorporating some anti-foam agent in the packets would be cheap and add value. Liquid fermcap is probably not the best option, but any of the Gas-X type substitutes could be had in powdered or chewable form.

"with our proprietary anti-foaming blend, flask boil-overs are a thing of the past!"


[edit] $1/L is about what my DME starters are costing when I pick up a pound or two of DME from the LHBS. I could see going a little higher for a pre-packaged deal, but like arno said earlier, you'll be competing against Fast-Pitch which has the big benefit of eliminating the boil.

I was just looking at that product. Kind of interesting... I see you have to add 16 oz of water per can. Are you guys boiling your water? Or just using bottled water? Lord knows I sure as heck wouldn't be using "MY" tap water.

Cheers
Jay
 
Just my input on pricing, but there is a product out there called "Fast Pitch" which allows you to not even have to make the starter. You just pour your yeast in it and call it a day. This product is priced at $2.50 a can which is sized for a 1.0L starter. Hopefully this pre-measured DME will be a reasonable price in comparison to something that you don't even have to boil.

As for my opinion on your question, I mostly make 1.25L starters regularly. Just happens to be the perfect amount for cell count that I need and harvest a small amount from it. To use one of your packages I would still have to measure/remove something. I would probably like nutrient already mixed in to make it simple!

Fast pitch is awesome, but the problem is it costs more to ship than what the pre-packaged DME costs. If you buy everything from Northern Brewer, then Fast Pitch is the way to go because you can absorb the shipping costs with your other ingredients. I believe Fast Pitch is strictly a Northern Brewer product so you can only get it there. I have used it four times and loved how easy it was. Wish my local store could carry it.

The pre-packaged starter sounds pretty good. I usually do 1000 mL or 1500 mL starters. I would want everything mixed in so you can just dump it in.
 
Actually I disagree. Flat rate shipping is pretty common among brewing suppliers, at least from the suppliers I commonly use. With that in mind it would cost more than Fast Pitch actually. The price to ship one small bag of DME is $9.95 to my zip code from this particular supplier and only $7.99 flat rate from ones that provide flat rate.

The only point I am trying to make is that these pre measured starter DME packages need to be priced reasonable compared to a product that is already made and ready for me to pitch for me to consider buying it. Especially when shopping is actually more in my case.
 
I love Fast Pitch, it just isn't economical for me. Everything I buy except for hops comes from the LHBS. I think it depends on the shipping method the supplier uses. You could ship the pre-packaged DME in padded envelopes for cheaper than $9.95 I would assume. Some offer flat rate and some offer free shipping over a certain dollar amount. I haven't ordered from the OP yet so I don't know their shipping methods. However, how many starters can you make for that package of DME? This is a convience product in my opinion and will bought with other supplies from customers which will negate shipping costs.

Not sure about what the disagreement is. I did say Fast Pitch would be cheaper if you shop from Northern Brewer. If you buy Fast Pitch which is $8.99 a 4-pack, you then pay $7.99 for shipping which equals $4.22 a can. I think a pound of DME is $4 or $5 from the LHBS and is cheaper. Also buying DME online is cheaper than Fast Pitch.

I don't think we disagree, we just worded our points differently. In order for the prepackaged DME to work, price and shipping is important.
 
I can measure my own dme, so assuming nutrient and anti foam is mixed in, id be able to weigh out the correct amount and boil. My issue with the fast pitch is that I either make the same sized starter every time, or I waste part of another can.

I would not buy prepackaged amounts, I would buy say, 3 lbs and just use as much as I need as I make different sized starters regularly.
 
I love Fast Pitch, it just isn't economical for me. Everything I buy except for hops comes from the LHBS. I think it depends on the shipping method the supplier uses. You could ship the pre-packaged DME in padded envelopes for cheaper than $9.95 I would assume. Some offer flat rate and some offer free shipping over a certain dollar amount. I haven't ordered from the OP yet so I don't know their shipping methods. However, how many starters can you make for that package of DME? This is a convience product in my opinion and will bought with other supplies from customers which will negate shipping costs.

Not sure about what the disagreement is. Fast Pitch would only be cheaper if you shop other supplies from Northern Brewer. If you buy Fast Pitch which is $8.99 a 4-pack, you then pay $7.99 for shipping which equals $4.22 a can. I think a pound of DME is $4 or $5 from the LHBS and is cheaper. Also buying DME online is cheaper than Fast Pitch. Using Fast Pitch is a way to spend a few bucks to save some time.

I don't think we disagree, we just worded our points differently. In order for the prepackaged DME to work, price and shipping is important.
 
Sorry for the slight hijack Jaybird, but that info might help you also. I think selling in actual starter sizes is better than ounce sizes and easier to use. For me to use pre-packaged starters it would need to be a time saver, but also not cost much more. Example, not needing a scale or adding stuff, just dump it and boil. Cost is obviously important too since actually doing those steps doesn't take that much longer.
 
Thanks for the feedback you guys! No need to apologize @mxstar21 It's an open forum man and I love the feedback!

A little about our shipping just to clear up a few point that were made. Our "FLAT RATE SHIPPING" option is a MAX you would have to pay for most anything you buy from us. We have about 10-12 shipping options set up depending on what you buy and where you are. MOST things we ship, customers pay WAY less than the $9.95. I am seeing a trend here about our shipping and really I have to thank you guys for pointing out that I need to be more clear on my marketing about our shipping. If your package is under 15 oz its going first class and your paying $3.60 (I think) If its under 8 OZ your paying 2.99 shipping. So just to clear that up as far as our shipping. $9.95 is the MAX you would pay on my site for almost anything (yes we have a few things we can't offer at 9.95) but most everything is under that rule.

So back to the starter packs. I think I may do a few test runs when my machine comes in and see how we need to repack the Yeast Beast into more usable sizes for you guys that "WANT" a cut and toss method for your starters.

Taking into account the feedback and the starter sizes I am thinking "Maybe" packs for 250ml (but probably 500ml) 1000ml and 2000ml starters keeping the OG VERY CLOSE to 1.040 adding the nutrient as needed so this way you can just mix and match what you need for your size starters. I am just tossing out some ideas. Pricing would be based off product cost and labor cost but absolutely reasonable, and it has to work. I have a feeling (will know once I put pen to paper) that these will be SUPER reasonable and affordable.

Taking shipping and cost out of the equation at this point. Do you guys think those sizes would be a reasonable place to start?

Again thanks for the insight and the feedback guys.

Cheers
Jay
 
You cleared up a lot, and yes I think you package sizing is perfect. I would ditch 250 mL in favor of 500 mL and this does sound like something I would be interested in. I am glad the feed back is helpful.
 
Thanks for the clarification on shipping costs. Wasn't trying to stir anything up, was just trying to give some useful feedback to the OP that it would have to be reasonable with the price of shipping taken into consideration to make it worth it for me.

I for one would be interested in this because at this time I don't use DME for anything beside making starters. If I could buy the pre packaged amounts reasonably priced, then I wouldn't have to deal with 3 lb bags anymore which make a mess measuring out and closing back up.

Will be keeping an eye out for this, cheers.
 
Thanks for the clarification on shipping costs. Wasn't trying to stir anything up, was just trying to give some useful feedback to the OP that it would have to be reasonable with the price of shipping taken into consideration to make it worth it for me.

I for one would be interested in this because at this time I don't use DME for anything beside making starters. If I could buy the pre packaged amounts reasonably priced, then I wouldn't have to deal with 3 lb bags anymore which make a mess measuring out and closing back up.

Will be keeping an eye out for this, cheers.

No problem at all. I didn't think you were stirring anything up. It's good 411 from where I'm sitting. Keep an eye out. I'm going to make this happen sooner rather than later.
I'll keep you all posted when I figure out pricing. You KNOW I'll be setting you guys up with a smoking deal.

I can't thank you all enough for the feedback! I knew I came to the right place!

Cheers
Jay
 
I was just looking at that product. Kind of interesting... I see you have to add 16 oz of water per can. Are you guys boiling your water? Or just using bottled water? Lord knows I sure as heck wouldn't be using "MY" tap water.

Cheers
Jay

My tap water is pretty clean, I would just use that, but theoretically bottled or boiled water would be safer.
 
I was just looking at that product. Kind of interesting... I see you have to add 16 oz of water per can. Are you guys boiling your water? Or just using bottled water? Lord knows I sure as heck wouldn't be using "MY" tap water.

Cheers
Jay

I use bottled water if we have some laying around just because it's already measured, but I have used tap water as well. Really doesn't matter unless your tap water is bad.
 
I have to admit, that if nothing else this thread made me aware of the Fast Pitch product, which I hadn't heard of before, and think is brilliant, BTW. I would TOTALLY buy it if they had it at my LHBS! If a competitive product that offered similar convenience was offered, I would consider that too...

I would definitely include nutrients...

I can't see much benefit to doing a starter smaller than 1 liter, but I like the idea of having packets for bigger starters too...I use a whole lot of dry yeast, so one of the only times I regularly do a starter is in the fall when I do my cider and cyser. I will make a 4 liter starter of White Labs English Cider yeast and split it between the two batches. Would need a whole 4 pack of the Fast Pitch for that!

OTOH, a pound of DME (which is what I use to make a 4 L starter that admittedly ends up being a touch over 1.040) at my LHBS is about $6.00 including tax, and I'm not getting that shipped....

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think there is a market for your idea, but I doubt it will be something that is a "game changer." It could be something that would be a great add on if someone was already ordering from your site...
 
I've tried Fast Pitch but the cans it comes in are so thin I've had 2 out of the 4 leak on me. Since I would boil any water I use a dry mix would interest me.
 
What makes DME starters a PITA is heating/boiling and then cooling for pitch. Not weighing out DME. So I can see the lack of interest in selling DME starter kits. I've canned my own which is time consuming but it's been great for a spur of the moment starter for an "I can do it tomorrow" brew.
 
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