Beginner: Am I doing this right?

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chmcgrat

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Hi there!
Sorry for the long post, but if you can, please bear with me. I just need some affirmation or advice on my first real brew.

I am relatively new to brewing cider.
I was introduced to this whole thing by a friend of mine who makes it in a pretty rudimentary way. I followed her instructions the first time I made it, and I did it the amateur way, using the plastic jug that the cider came in, pouring off one cup of cider, adding one cup of sugar, adding bread yeast (I know, gross!), and then loosely sealing it off with a piece of plastic wrap. I fermented it for about 4 days (and it smelled pretty gross while fermenting, which I have assumed could be attributed to the bread yeast that I used) and then poured it through a coffee filter to get most of the sediment out (which took forever!) I added the extra cup of non-alcoholized cider, and then added some apple juice concentrate, and refrigerated it in the plastic jug it came in.

Anyway, the taste turned out surprisingly good (especially when mixed with Sprite for a sweet and bubbly cooler-like drink), but after reading real cider recipes online, I was really itching to try making it using the proper equipment.

So, I went to my local winemaking shop and was recommended to start small and try making it in a 1-gallon jug for my first try. I bought an amber glass 1-gallon jug, a bottle cap for the jug, a #6.5 drilled bung, a plastic 3-piece airlock, and a 5g packet of Lalvin wine yeast. Then I went to the grocery store and bought a 3L jug of preservative-free unsweetened apple cider and a can of preservative-free apple juice concentrate.

I went home and cleaned out the inside of the glass jug by shaking some peroxide around in it (it's all I had), and steam sanitized the bung, the bottle cap, and the airlock. I melted the airlock, because I'm stupid and plastic melts in heat obviously, LOL, and I went back and got another, which the man at the store sanitized for me. I poured the cider into the glass jug, added the apple juice concentrate, and sprinkled a 1/4 tsp of yeast on top (which I estimated to be about 1g or 1/5th of the packet) without first rehydrating the yeast, as the packet instructed. Now, the reason I didn't rehydrate it was because my recipe said to sprinkle it on top, and the packet was assuming I was making wine, so after thinking long and hard about whose instructions to follow, I went with the recipe's.

Without resanitizing the probably contaminated airlock (I'd had enough of trying to sterilize things at this point, and my other cider turned out drinkable without sanitizing anything), I filled it with water, stuck it in the bung, stuck the bung in the jug, and called it a day.

After about 48 hours, it started to show some airlock activity. I expected to see some sooner than that, but it is definitely fermenting now, and that is good. I started the batch on April 28th, so it has been going for about 6 days now, and bubbling for 4 days. I know I should have, but I did not buy a hydrometer, so I'm just going on what the airlock looks like. It is only releasing 1 bubble per 10.5 seconds, which seems slower than I think it should be going. I looked up clips on YouTube of these airlocks bubbling and they are all bubbling at a much faster rate than mine. But the videos on YouTube are also showing much larger batches, and they are fermenting them in fermenting buckets, and not 1-gallon glass jugs.


So I guess I have 2 main questions:
1. Does the rate at which it releases bubbles just relate to the amount of cider you are fermenting?
2. This may sound dumb, but why do people use fermenting buckets for the primary fermentation as opposed to using the glass carboys?

I read something online where someone said to actually leave the lid of the fermenting bucket off(!) during the primary fermentation because oxygen helps the fermentation. Do people only do this when they are relying solely on wild yeasts in the air to ferment the brew and they aren't worried about contamination?

If you can offer me any insight or suggestions, they would be much appreciated! Thank you in advance!
 
So I guess I have 2 main questions:
1. Does the rate at which it releases bubbles just relate to the amount of cider you are fermenting?
2. This may sound dumb, but why do people use fermenting buckets for the primary fermentation as opposed to using the glass carboys?

I'm only at this a few months, but I'll take a shot at answering:

1. Yes, but only roughly. Some people will say that airlock activity has nothing to do with fermentation activity, but I don't think that's quite right. AFAIK yeast fermentation creates CO2 and that gas has to go somewhere. This is a proportional reaction - each unit of alcohol produced also produces so much CO2 - so if you have a larger amount of fermenting liquid routed through the same size airlock, you will get more bubbling.

BUT that assumes all the gas is going through the airlock. My first cider fermented ridiculously fast, but there were no bubbles in the airlock for the first several days. Turns out my bucket doesn't seal well and it was escaping under the lid. So you can't trust the airlock.

2. Buckets have flat walls compared to curved carboys. Initial fermentation can be very energetic and foam up the sides and out the airlock, risking contamination. It's much harder for that to happen with a bucket. Also if you're adding solid ingredients or wrapping things in a cheesecloth, obviously it's easier to stuff it in. Finally, it allows more surface area to be in contact with oxygen if/when you stir, and yeast use O2 to reproduce in the initial stages. That said, many people just use carboys. I do both, depending on the size of the batch.

I read something online where someone said to actually leave the lid of the fermenting bucket off(!) during the primary fermentation because oxygen helps the fermentation. Do people only do this when they are relying solely on wild yeasts in the air to ferment the brew and they aren't worried about contamination?

I think people who leave lids off only do it for the first couple of days when CO2 production is strong, and they still cover it with a porous cloth or towel, but I've never done it and don't know enough to be definitive.
 
if you will continue to make cider or anything else, you need to get some Star San. Your wine shop should have some. Also don't wash anything with soap. use oxy clean free and let it soak. Also get a hydrometer.
To ans your questions:
1) the bubbles indicate the release of co2. When bubbling stops, that doesn't necessarily indicate fermentation has finished. For me, I make beer and I allow 10-14 days in primary before I even check gravity. When the final gravity is obtained I bottle.
2) I use both. Buckets are easier and cheaper. Buckets probably should be replaced every year. The downside is you cant see the action going on. If you decide to use buckets, go to the bakery dept at your local bakery and get icing buckets. They are free but need to be cleaned. You will also need to tape the lid shut as sometimes the buildup of co2 may pop open the lid as those buckets don't usually seal right.

Also, a 1/4t may not be enough yeast. Maybe cider/wine yeast is different than beer yeast but when I make a 1 gallon test batch I usually add 2-3 grams of yeast.

If your airlock has been bubbling for 4 days then you should be good but I would let it go at least 2 weeks maybe even three to make sure if finishes.

BTW, what temp are you fermenting at?
 
if you will continue to make cider or anything else, you need to get some Star San. Your wine shop should have some. Also don't wash anything with soap. use oxy clean free and let it soak.
I forgot to mention, I did buy some powdered chlorine detergent, which the man at the wine shop recommended. He said that it works well because it cleans and sanitizes instead of just sanitizing. I used this and a bottle brush to clean out some old carboys that I bought in case I decided to make a large batch of cider at some point. Would you advise against using this for routine sanitation?

BTW, what temp are you fermenting at?
I don't have a thermometer in the room that I am fermenting it in, but initially, I was keeping the room at probably around 65 F. When I went to the wine shop, I asked the man about what temperature I should keep it at, and he told me around 70-75 F. So yesterday I put a heater in the room, and again, I'm not totally sure of the temperature, but I would estimate it to be around 75.
 
Would you say the reason why it took a little while to get going with the bubbling is probably because I sprinkled the dry yeast instead of rehydrating it beforehand?
 
I'm not sure of the yeast you used but I have sprinkled yeast and also re-hydrated before and I have experienced 36+ hrs lag time before any signs of fermentation.
As for as temps go, I never ferment above 65 degrees except for the last few days where I'll increase the temps to help the yeast finish. I would remove the heater. I think you said you are at day 6 or 7 right. If that's the day you are on then 70 degrees is ok at that point. Not sure I would go much higher than that. Then again i've never made cider before.
65 degrees as a perfect temp to ferment unless the yeast you used states otherwise. The first 36-48 hrs are critical and you want to be within the range specified on the yeast package.
There is no powdered chlorine detergent that I know of that cleans and sanitizes. Are you in the US? if not then maybe things are different where you are in regards to what's available for cleaning and sanitizing. Can you post the name of the cleaner/sanitizer you used? Just curious to see what it is.
 
There is no powdered chlorine detergent that I know of that cleans and sanitizes. Are you in the US? if not then maybe things are different where you are in regards to what's available for cleaning and sanitizing. Can you post the name of the cleaner/sanitizer you used? Just curious to see what it is.

I live in Canada, but the chlorine detergent I'm using is just generic store brand chlorine detergent (the label literally just says Chlorine Detergent), so it should be the same as whatever is available in the US.
So how does the chlorine detergent work then? Does it only sanitize? Is this something I shouldn't be using for routine sanitation?
 
I live in Canada, but the chlorine detergent I'm using is just generic store brand chlorine detergent (the label literally just says Chlorine Detergent), so it should be the same as whatever is available in the US.
So how does the chlorine detergent work then? Does it only sanitize? Is this something I shouldn't be using for routine sanitation?

This is what you need to use for sanitizing. The store where you bought your items for your cider should carry starsan. If not there should be a home brew supply store in Canada where you can order some.
http://www.homebrewsupply.com/five-star-starsan-32-oz.html?gclid=CPOon-_cwswCFYI9gQodRjEOMg

This is what I use to clean.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/19406202?...43093792&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78303282392&veh=sem

There are other items out there but these are what I use. I'm not familiar with chlorine detergent.
 
This is what you need to use for sanitizing. The store where you bought your items for your cider should carry starsan. If not there should be a home brew supply store in Canada where you can order some.
http://www.homebrewsupply.com/five-star-starsan-32-oz.html?gclid=CPOon-_cwswCFYI9gQodRjEOMg

This is what I use to clean.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/19406202?...43093792&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78303282392&veh=sem

There are other items out there but these are what I use. I'm not familiar with chlorine detergent.

Okay, so for the Star San, can you dilute it, put it into a spay bottle, and just spray things with the sanitizer? Or do they need to soak in it?
 
Okay, so for the Star San, can you dilute it, put it into a spay bottle, and just spray things with the sanitizer? Or do they need to soak in it?

The answer is yes... it is very versatile.

5-Star-Star-San-Directions-Label.jpg
 
Okay, so for the Star San, can you dilute it, put it into a spay bottle, and just spray things with the sanitizer? Or do they need to soak in it?

What's good about Starsan is it is a no rinse sanitizer. I usually do soak my bottles and anything that is not in the boil. I suppose you can spray the items down. As long as they are wet from the Starsan you should be good.
 
I will add my 2 cents in here. I will add to buy a hydrometer. It is really the only way to tell where your fermentation stands. With my last batch there was very little activity in the airlock, the others were bubbling away more strongly, but it had fermented out the most sugar. The only way I was able to tell was through a hydrometer reading.

The other suggestion I would make is to ferment at a lower temperature. Check the suggested fermenting temps on the yeast you are using and go with the lower end of that range.

Good luck!
 
As to your questions - bB answered almost exactly as i would have.

With that said here are some additional thoughts. (Others opinions will vary but this works for me.)

Sanitation is critical - EVERYTING that touches the Must shall be sanitized. (Including hands)
o Star San - 1 ounce in 5 gallons of water with a 2 minute soak and no rinse required

Temperature is Very Important!
o Hit temperature targets 60-64 for Safeale S04. (My go-to Yeast) If not able to hit the middle to low end for your yeast then hold as constant as possible inside the yeast tolerance.

Nutrient addition not required but a good idea during yeast pitch if no starter used.
o Making a yeast starter is a good idea but certainly not required.

Specific Gravity readings are important!
o Use a hydrometer - Target Original Gravity 1.050 to 1.070 and FG 1.004 to 1.008.

Use good quality Cider. - Your cider is only as good as the ingredients you use.

Time is your friend.
o If problems arise check pH & SG adjust appropriately then wait it out & recheck.

Air is your enemy NO Splashing! While Racking etc, and check airlock liquid periodically.
 
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