whirpool does not work

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_bushman_

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well, in fact it did when i first made whirpool, then transfered the wort and cooled.
but i was advised to cool fast first, then do whirpool and transfer to primary. since then i never managed to get the nice "pyramid" in the middle of the kettle even after 30 minutes rest. i am always left with about 5liters of trubs and hops on the bottom making it difficult not to get those to primary.
any suggestions how to fix it?

thanks!
 
Tried numerous times. Never works. Stopped trying and now I either dump it all in OR use bag/canister to contain hops in the boil.
 
I am aware of the experiment and once i had hot break all over wort which did not settle even after 30mins so i transfered all of it and the beer turned out crystal clear.
Still am wondering why does not the whirpool work when the wort is chilled..
 
Are you using any whirlfloc? Also, what do you mean when you say it doesn't work? Are you referring to the "cone" that's often described?

Whirlpooling doesn't make trub go away. And with flat bottom kettles like a lot of us have, it wont form a cone in the center but instead it will spread out across the bottom. As I understand things, with domed bottom kettles such as a keggle or those by Stout Tanks, the trub will collect more in a cone or collected in the center and away from the kettle walls. This allows you to draw clear wort from the side while leaving the trub in the middle. But with flat bottom kettles, you'll get in initial draw of trub that then clears for most of the transfer until the last bit.

IMHO, whirlpooling is better thought of as a way to recirculate wort and knockout hops during a steep as well as assist an immersion chiller cool things faster. Use of finings will help trub and break material settle out so that you can potentially transfer mostly clear wort.

So, whirlpooling does "work" but I'm not exactly sure of the criteria you're judging it by.
 
I judge it as "working" by the ability to leave break material and hops isolated in the kettle when transferring to the fermenter. I use Whirlfloc in every batch. I have flat bottom kettles with side pickup tubes installed. I've tried stirring with a mash paddle, spatula, and even a drill with a propellor-type attachment.

The break is so lightweight that it doesn't clear after the initial draw (the way yeast usually does). So in terms of effort vs. benefit, for me it's a total wash.

Circulating wort and late hops is a much simpler thing to do; it doesn't require such a technical approach. All you have to do is stir and agitate.
 
ive never been able to effectively leave the trub in the boil kettle without:
1) making a mess (filters, screens, etc)
2) too much effort (cleaning filters, screens, etc)
3) leaving a significant amount of wort behind (transferring only trub free wort to the fermenter)

So now, i do a whirlpool with my immersion chiller to quickly get to lower temps. sometimes i whirlpool at specific temps for hopstands. if i let the wort sit after turning the whirpool off, i will get a "mound" of hop debris in the center of the kettle. where it is by no means a "cone" it does collect the hops in the center to help prevent the them from being sucked up by the side pickup. the whirlpool seems to have no effect on the trub though, so that just goes right into the fermenter.
 
If using a tool like Beersmith, you can set an equipment profile that accounts for trub loss. This gets factored into the batch size so that you should be able to fill your fermentor(s) before you start sucking up settled trub. At least thats how it works for me.

Are you accounting for trub loss in your recipe? If so, maybe you need to bump the volume up.
 
Although clear wort may not be necessary, I just wanted to see if it's possible. I hate harvesting overly trubby yeast.

On my last 2 batches I've let the wort clarify in the kettle for a few hours, then racked the clear wort into fermentation buckets, tipping the kettle toward the cane at the end to transfer as much wort and minimal trub. I do use finely woven voile bags to contain the hops, both pellets and leaf, as well as citrus peels, spices, etc. Still a lot of fine hop dust makes it into the wort, but it all settles with the break on the bottom.

Now that trubby wort that's leftover is not going to waste. I strain it through a clean sanitized voile bag, then heat it, leaving it at 170°F for 10 minutes to pasteurize. Let chill and add to fermentor. It's about 2-3 quarts of it, I think it's worth using. Some brewers use it for starters, which is another good option.
 
when i mean it does not work i mean the cone is not forned. i used the same kettle and and it was formed when I did the whirpool before chilling. if i chill the wort and do whirpool afterwards, no cone, just 5l of trub on the bottom.
i do use whirlfloc which i did not use before. does it have any impact?
 
I filtered it all through a hop spider bag from brewbag and that did the trick. I had pure yeast to harvest. It was a pain to get the bag out of carboy though. Recommend bucket or wide mouth.
 
You are cooling before whirlpooling, which gives you the massive amounts of cold break. This is why you are not getting a nice trub cone like you see in some pics.

When I would whirlpool then run the wort through a chiller and to the fermentors (downside was the wort was still 75-80F) I could get a nice trub cone quickly. W

When I cool the wort while or before whirlpooling (what I do now through a plate chiller), it takes about 20 minutes to get 11 gal to pitching temps. After letting everything settle for 20 min, I still get some break material in the first part of the runoff before it the material drops below the level of the side pick up tube from my BK. That is even without any hop debris!

All in all, the beer wont be impacted by the material getting in the fermentor, like stated.
 
This is what my kettle looks like after an hour of whirlpooling

hopcone.jpg
 
I get a nice cone now but this is only after I finally realized a few things. First, I added a diptube that tucks right into the corner of my kettle. Second, I realized that it is not detrimental to get hot/cold break materials in the fermentor (strong arguments have been made this is actually beneficial). Third, I needed to do one last big whirlpool after removing my immersion chiller and lets stand for 20 minutes.

After I did that, I now get a nice cone of hops and larger clumps of break material, but most of the hot/cold break ends up in the fermentor and does not affect things one bit as far as clarity or taste goes.
 
I've also never whirlpooled successfully. I just pour everything into the fermenter. Since I use a hop spider in the boil there is relatively little hop material in the kettle

Another technique I've tried that works well is to wrap the wort chiller in the paint strainer bag. Then once the wort is cooled down, siphon out from the center of the wort chiller. Due to the large surface area of the strainer bag around the chiller, it wont get clogged with hop material.
 
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