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Morrey

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I have brewed multiple batches of extract beers and have been quite happy with them. Extract is easy to manage and the wife and I have the system down to a science making it a fun, family adventure.

I have been kicking tires and asking advice about all-grain or BIAB. Lots of good advice, seems very doable with just a bit more work and equipment involved. My question involves the end product, or finished and conditioned beer.

Several guys at the LHBS I use tell me why bother with all-grain since extract beer is so good. They say that extract beers win awards in competitions so why bother with BIAB. I'm sure some will support this theory, while other will gnash their teeth in disbelief. So one guy tells me (supported by others listening in) that he can make an all-grain brew of a pale ale (for example), then an extract version using the same recipe subbing LME or DME, and he swears I won't be able to tell the difference in blind taste test. He challenges me to this and I am waiting for his two beers to come of age so we can do this brown bag comparison.

This is an opinion based question for sure, but is his advice that extract beers can equal all-grain beers in taste True or False in your opinion?
 
I was in the same boat as you about 8 months ago. I was happy with my extract brews but I ended up with 1 that I thought tasted like an extract beer to me. Not terrible, and I didn't dislike it, I just felt like it was an extract beer instead of a beer. I started doing BIAB. In my opinion, I now make better beer. In my opinion you can make good even great extract beers, but the all grain version will be better. I think that most people who enjoy beer and truly evaluate beer, not judge but evaluate, will almost always be able to tell the difference between extract and all grain.
 
First, I will say that you can brew excellent beers with extract. Much of the quality comes from, as you have already pointed out, having your process (boil-chill-fermentation-kegging/bottling) well under control.

But the question is: What do YOU want out of brewing? Personally, I find it much more fun to design my own recipes and brew all-grain. I would like to think I have a better control of fermentability of the wort doing so and over 110+ batches in, it seems to be that way. It does not really concern me how other people brew and whether or not they can do the same thing with extract vs all grain brewing. I can probably convert many of my recipes over to extract or partial mash and get just as good a beer at this point, but have no interest in doing so.

The one other thing, aside from fermentability of the wort, that I can see as an advantage to my BIAB all-grain is the wider range of raw materials which are open to me. I find differences enough in base malts (2-row v. pale ale v. english pale v. Maris Otter v. Golden Promise v. Continental Pilsner v. Domestic Pilsner, etc.) that peaks my interest in not relying on a supplier to do the product selection and mashing conditions for me.

In the end, evaluate the process based upon what you want to accomplish. Certainly, it is easy enough to get a bag, do a baib batch and decide from there if this is the route you want to take.
 
You can make extract beers that are just as good as all grain. If you brew two as close to the same as possible they will still be different. If you have a good extract and a good all grain it should be difficult to decide which is which.

It seems that a lot of people can not rid their extracts of "twang". I have not had that problem. In fact a couple of my extract batches I would rate in the top 10 of the 80+ batches that I have done. And only 7 were extracts.

As far as equipment the only thing you will need is a pot large enough to do BIAB and a BIAB bag. And possibly a hotter burner. The rest of your equipment is still perfectly fine.

You can save a lot of money by going all grain. My average all grain costs about $25 in ingredients, the same with extract is $35-$45. If you buy in bulk you can save even more.
 
I've done both--started w/ extract brewing and all three had a little twang to them. Not bad, just...a feature, perhaps, instead of a bug.

I was looking at the same issues as you, and knew that eventually i would want to try all-grain brewing, whether it was BIAB or a more traditional mash setup.

I've now kegged my 4th batch after switching to all-grain (I do it in a mash tun, mostly because I lucked into one and didn't have a kettle large enough to do BIAB). No twang. Excellent taste. Getting better as it conditions a bit more (I'm an impatient son of a gun). I'm trying to clone a beer whose recipe was changed last summer, and I'm close. I believe it's a bit easier to set up various recipes using all-grain. Not sure how steeping grain equates, and while I'm sure there's a formula or method someplace, it's just more direct to include it as part of the mash.

My 3rd all-grain is all gone. One friend who is a bit of a connoisseur and who was described by a homebrewer with 22 years experience and who is setting up a craft brewery in a restaurant/bar, as having one of THE best palates of anyone he knew, said my Rye Beer was one of the 50 best beers he'd ever tasted. I'll take that, thank you. That beer is shown below, it's dark but not meaty malty like a stout.

I have another Rye fermenting right now. I think I have the process down for the most part. Very anxious for that to finish (10 days in fermenter, I'll go to 3 weeks probably). Tried a bit different recipe, replacing basic 2-row barley with Maris Otter.

I'm with Oginme above: what do you want out of brewing? Want to extend the margins and see how it goes? Learn about mashing? Try different combinations that are impossible given the limited selection of extract? No harm if you don't want to do that--everyone gets to make their own choices, and the only person you need to please is you.

As for me, I believe my beer is much better doing all-grain than it was with extract. At some point I may try a side-by-side as your friend is doing, but for now, I'm mashing. :)

ryebeer.jpg
 
You can open up a jar of Prego Spaghetti Sauce and pour it over your noodles and have a nice Spaghetti dinner. You can go to the store, buy your tomatoes, herbs and spices and make your spaghetti sauce and have a great spaghetti dinner. If I had not changed to BIAB, I probably would have stopped brewing. I did not like the taste of my extract brews, however being fair, I did not go to the lengths that people have talked about to make my extract better (like late additions, I had already switched to BIAB before finding out about that method).

Now that I have two batches of BIAB under my belt, I am very happy with the beer I have brewed and will continue this hobby with reckless abandon. I have so many all grain recipes that want to try.

BTW, just be careful with making a judgement based off a side by side comparison from someone else. He could give you two all-grain beers or two extract's to try and you'd never know he was faking it. Seems like a lot of effort to prove a point.
 
True, but the question doesn't cover the subject sufficiently. As already stated, there is a wider variety of beers that can be made with all-grain brewing and possibly the greater difference comes from what you get out of the hobby. I make beer, cider, mead and wine at home, but have mostly gravitated towards the beer portion. I don't think that it is necessarily that I enjoy beer that much more than the others, but more to the fact that since starting to brew all-grain, I feel more connected to the process and it is more like I am cooking from scratch rather than combining pre-prepared items. That said, you can always do both! At least one of my next two brews will be extract. Additionally, one of the top three beers that I have made was extract-based.
 
Pretty much the entire reason I enjoy brewing so much is experimenting with different grains, different mashing techniques, designing my own recipes etc. I loved building my mash tun and all the other little bits of my all grain set up.
I am a tinkerer and a planner and I love researching all this stuff, and trying out new things. And I absolutely love feeling like I'm 100% in control of my process.
With that being said I have never bothered with brewing extract beers. it is not conducive to my personality, and isn't in line with my goals or the reasons why I have adopted brewing as a hobby - or should i say OBSESSION. To me extract brewing eliminates all of the fun parts of the process.
I'm not knocking anyone for brewing extract, and i do believe that extract beers can be every bit as good or better than all grain beers. Its just that for me personally I have no interest in brewing a beer that way because it does not seem fun. All grain brewing is an adventure with all the little gadgets and the math and the sciencey-bits and that is the stuff that keeps me interested in brewing.

If you are anything like me I think you should try out a traditional all grain set up. You can build everything you need and have fun while doing so. You might find that your interest in brewing goes way deeper than just making beer, and an all grain set up allows you to explore all the different little aspects of brewing that you don't even consider when brewing extract. You might find that you fall deeper in love with the hobby. And if not, you can always go back to extract, no harm done.
 
I've seen an extract beer take BOS in a pretty large competition so it can be done. The main problem with extract brewing, which several of you have mentioned, is bad extract. Make sure the stuff you are using is really fresh and you should do better.

But then there is the question: If I want a triple decocted Pils brewed with soft water and all Saazer hops, fermented and cellared in the traditional way, where do I go to buy that? AFAIK the answer is you don't. I should have cautioned any accountants working for breweries that reading this paragraph may cause palpitations. So if you want this beer (and arguments as to whether it is really any better than the stuff that's made today are not relevant - if you want it you want it) you'll have to make it and you won't make it from extract. Now there's a challenge for someone: prove me wrong!
 
I'm extract-only at this point, but have also kicking the tires on BIAB/AG. Here's the thing: I feel like you can make a great extract brew. No doubt. I think I've made at least one.
But the downside of extract to me is that you can't always make the brew YOU want to make.
Want to make a rye ale with 30% rye and no caramel? Too bad! Breiss rye extract is 70-20-10! Want to adjust your bill to 60% two row and 40% munich? Too bad! Breiss says Munich extract is 50-50! Want to raise that mash temp a few degrees to get more body? Tough! That's been done already. And sure, I know there are specialty grains you can steep to get some of those same effects or balance the bill, and I do that, but I often feel like I'm working with half a toolbox.
So... I guess that's where I fall with it. I can make a great beer with extract, but I can't always make *my* great beer. It always feels like somebody else's.
 
To me, the biggest plus factor of BIAB or all-grain is the complete control I have over ever step of the way. Not as much cost savings as small tweaks and twists that custom suit my palate.

Extract to me is kind of like buying a cake mix. This cake is Betty Crocker's way...not my way. It may be excellent cake, but I think I can discern between a mix and a scratch cake.

I'm going to be challenged when this fellow comes up with two pale ales and asks me to tell him the all grain recipe and the extract recipe. Will be a good test of my palate. The other side of this equation is he will be doing exactly the same beers, not adding, deleting or modifying to suit his palate which is a huge factor in AG.

That one statement sums it up nicely, Mainer...."with extract kits I feel I am working with half a toolbox". Well stated.
 
A well made extract beer can be better than a poorly made all grain beer, it's that simple. That's why extract beers can win blind contests against all grain beers too. It's not the method use that determines if a beer is good or lousy, it's the brewer, and the care and attention they place on their process.

I know, over the decade, I've tasted at club meetings and brewing events crappy all grain beers where the brewer thought his crap didn't stink because he owned a blinged out all grain system, but didn't pay attention to basic things like temp control, or pitching enough yeast or rushing the beer, or not letting it bottle condition or doing a crappy job of sanitization.... and I have tasted really excellent first efforts by extract brewers who long before they brewed their first kit, stumbled on to places like this, read all they could and applied those basic level care to their beer- They, did a full boil and/or did late extract additions, made a yeast starter with liquid yeast, they rigged up a swamp cooler to maintain their temps during fermentation, the bought starsan and threw out the packet of saniclean, they tossed their kit instruction that said the beer would be ready in a week, and took gravity readings before racking or opted to try a month long primary to let the yeast clean up after themselves, they let their beers bottle condition 3 or 4 weeks... and there beer was lightyears ahead of the AG brewer who thought he knew everything and did nothing...

There's a lot of egos that will tell you 1 method is better than another, or extract is better than AG, but I made some damn fine beers the first couple years of extract brewing, of course I rapidly stopped brewing with kits in favor of building my own Extract with Grain recipes or brewing with recipes from here that were highly regarded, or in BYO magazine.

If you are using FRESH extract, from a high traffic supplier, like online or a busy store... you're using good quality ingredients. People think for some strange reason that extract is "different" from all grain people do.. but when we brew all grain, we're making extract the only difference is that the maltser is blending grains like we do, and then boiling the hell out of it to concentrate into an easily packaged concentrated for for sale, or going further to evaporate the water out and poweder it, but contrary to what a lot of people, even all grain brewers seem to think, EXTRACT is not something artificial concoction- it's no different chemically than what I make in my cooler, just thicker.

The bias against extract stems to what I believe is self-delusion... people blame extract for the reason their first brews sucked rather than admitting the simple fact that they sucked initially as a brewer... that they were IGNORANT of things- like those things I mentioned above, AND we generally also listened to those crappy instructions that told us our beer would be fully fermented and bottle conditioned in a week.

And then, before they even learn to make a solid extract kit, they jump to all grain, and maybe apply some of the tips they read on here and make decent beer... then they rail against the "evils" of extract.

I've said it for years, and few will try... I have suggest to those AG snobs, that they go back one day and actually re-brew one of their first hated extract recipes/kits, but applying everything they've learned in their years as an ag brewer and see if just maybe they can crank out a decent tasting beer, a lot better perhaps than they recall.

I tell people, if you make great extract beers, are happy with them, and don't feel the need or have the desire to challenge yourself, to "up your game" then keep doing what makes you happy. Some people do extract for decades...they may be in the hobby simply because it's cheaper this way, or don't have the time or incentive to get more complicated that what they're currently doing.

If you've done kits and make decent extract beer, but don't want to go all grain, consider making your own extract recipes..that's pretty challenging. That was my next step from kits... And if you look at a couple of my extract recipes on here, I made some good one.

But if you want more challenge, or want more control, then go to the next level... for me it was a progression from my own extract with grains recipes... there is a limited amount of "base" extract easily available... or was 10 years ago.. if I for example wanted an all marris otter base malt (or an all pilsner "SMASH") I was sort out of luck. Plus with AG brewing you get to control a lot more variables, mash temp, the chemistry of the water used (with extract you are basically "stuck" with the water profile the maltser used to make said extract.,) so it's really difficult to re-create a Burton On Trent English Ale water is pretty important.

But again it's not one is better than the other.... it's an ingredient like anything else... and just like cooking, even the humblest ingredient (think offal) in the hands of a master chef can be a thing of beauty, a $50.00 piece of aged Waygu Tenderloin can be turned into **** by an uncaring or egomaniac arrogant chef. Same with extract... hell same with a much maligned mr beer kit...

Learn to make the best beer you can with any ingredient or with any method you choose to employ, regardless of what someone else might think. :mug:
 
You can make an excellent cake from a mix. You can make the perfect cake, customized to your preferences, by making it from scratch. Probably nobody besides the baker will tell the difference. If it is just about convenience and an acceptable end product, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the mix. If it is about doing it yourself, experimenting, and expressing your own personal preferences, then baking from scratch wins hands down. (Edit: just saw Morley said the same thing).
 
Extract is like the gateway drug to all grain brewing. I really enjoyed doing extracts just as much as the next guy and I would say we got some really good beers from it. However....I needed more and more of a fix and now I have a full on all grain system and I wouldn't go back for anything. NOW...with that being said I have still done two or three extract kits when I didn't have the time to brew all grain but my fermenters were empty.
 
But then there is the question: If I want a triple decocted Pils brewed with soft water and all Saazer hops, fermented and cellared in the traditional way, where do I go to buy that? AFAIK the answer is you don't.

There are some styles that would be difficult if not possible to do with extract.

But for the most part, If you use fresh extracts and control temperatures etc. You should be able to make many different styles with extracts that would be just as good as all grain. Since the brewer doesn't have the same level of control, the beers will be different, but both should be good.

I personally have not experienced any "twang" in my extracts.

So it really is up to the individual to figure out is he can brew a extract without getting the twang.

Then decide what level of control over recipes he desires, and what level of cost savings in the end. After recouping equipment costs it is far less expensive to brew all grain as opposed to extract.

I brew all grain in a traditional HLT, MT, BK setup, also BIAB and also extract. I prefer my traditional rig because I enjoy that process the most.
 
First I will answer true - extract can make a good beer and it can be as good or better than all grain.

I've tasted plenty of mediocre all grain homebrew and a few real dumpers. I've also tasted plenty of commercial beer (I think about 100% of that is all grain) that is bad. I've had very good extract brews and plenty of extract brews in the mediocre to bad range too.

So one guy tells me (supported by others listening in) that he can make an all-grain brew of a pale ale (for example), then an extract version using the same recipe subbing LME or DME, and he swears I won't be able to tell the difference in blind taste test. He challenges me to this and I am waiting for his two beers to come of age so we can do this brown bag comparison.

I read this with interest. I've tried similar and the beers were not all that similar. Used pale ale recipe from Brewing Classic Style with a side by side of the extract and the all grain versions. Both were pretty good if you like a more malt forward pale ale that to my taste is lacking in American Hop character... But they were easy to tell apart as the extract was always a bit more hazy than the all grain. Everybody agreed the all grain was the better beer but hard to really judge when there is a visible cue like clarity. The extract batch was close to 3x the cost of the all grain.

I did a few things to try to get as good of an extract batch as possible. The book called for 3 kinds of extract....DME, DME (wheat), LME Munich - I followed exactly and got as fresh as possible extracts. I did a full 6 gallon boil just like I would with all grain. Chilled same. Same yeast and oxygenation. Fermented side by side in temperature controlled fermentation chamber. I kegged both beers and served side by side from keezer. Be interested in how your friend controls variables when he does his side by side.

I will say if you are going to do full boil extracts - and I think you should - the equipment upgrade to all grain BIAB or batch/fly sparge is modest. The brew day is a little longer but to me more fun.
 
There are some styles that would be difficult if not possible to do with extract.

And as odd as it may seem I have one extract with grains recipe that I was never able to re-create as an all grain one. It was my original "clone" of Bell's amber ale. I'm sure somewhere on here is my original recipe for it. It was like extralight DME and 1 or 2 crystal steeping grains. But converting it to AD, although I made a good beer with it, it never tasted to me as close to Bells' or as good as my original recipe.
 
You can open up a jar of Prego Spaghetti Sauce and pour it over your noodles and have a nice Spaghetti dinner. You can go to the store, buy your tomatoes, herbs and spices and make your spaghetti sauce and have a great spaghetti dinner. If I had not changed to BIAB, I probably would have stopped brewing. I did not like the taste of my extract brews, however being fair, I did not go to the lengths that people have talked about to make my extract better (like late additions, I had already switched to BIAB before finding out about that method).

Now that I have two batches of BIAB under my belt, I am very happy with the beer I have brewed and will continue this hobby with reckless abandon. I have so many all grain recipes that want to try.

BTW, just be careful with making a judgement based off a side by side comparison from someone else. He could give you two all-grain beers or two extract's to try and you'd never know he was faking it. Seems like a lot of effort to prove a point.
Yes, I agree there could be deception involved. The crowd of onlookers were a semi-loose group that were a sort of an in-house locals brewing club. From the way it sounded, they all were interested in this conversation and wanted to be part of this project. But I agree, it may be a farce.
 
If you are using FRESH extract, from a high traffic supplier, like online or a busy store... you're using good quality ingredients. People think for some strange reason that extract is "different" from all grain people do.. but when we brew all grain, we're making extract the only difference is that the maltser is blending grains like we do, and then boiling the hell out of it to concentrate into an easily packaged concentrated for for sale, or going further to evaporate the water out and poweder it, but contrary to what a lot of people, even all grain brewers seem to think, EXTRACT is not something artificial concoction- it's no different chemically than what I make in my cooler, just thicker.

Bam Revvy nails it again!

I brew mainly BIAB just because I don't live anywhere near a homebrew supply store and I stock up on ingredients when I do mail orders. But that being the case I usually buy a extract kit beer at the same time.

So do both.

Invest in the ability to do all grain and also keep doing extract. If you don't at least try it, you'll always wonder if all-grain is better.

I second the mention of BIAB. I started it thinking that it was a "step" towards a mulit-vessel system but at this point I make beer I like with a fraction of the equipment.

And anecdotally my homebrew club had a contest and an morebeer extract beer kit won (public input..). It was good and nobody cared how it was made.
 
A few weeks ago a guy in the local homebrew club came in with a new beer he was really proud of, it was his first all grain. This guy has been brewing far longer than me and I've drank several of his beer and never had a clue that the others weren't all grain (several other members of the group were also surprised that this was his first all grain). You can make great extract beers.

As for me, I went to all grain after 3 extract batches and never regretted it. I did my switch for costs though, by buying grains in bulk, I pay only $0.90 a lb for pale 2-row and up to $1.50 per lb for Maris Otter. I can make a batch for easily under $20 and that includes never repitching yeast (of course the lower grain costs are lost offset because I'm continually upgrading and buying new equipment).

There are variables in all grain you'll eventually have to worry about such as water additions, mash temperature and mash ph, but for me having to learn and worry about that stuff makes brewing a more fun hobby. On the other hand, I made some pretty decent all grain beers before I ever messed with ph or water additions (you'll have to worry about temperature day 1).

Try a single BIAB, you can get by with a cheap bag from amazon, an immersion chiller, a larger kettle and a propane burner, if you dislike all grain, you'll have the equipment to do full boils and can go back to extract.
 
OP, its like this honestly. Brewing is a passion, its a feeling you get when you have 25 gallons made and you are thinking hmm...when do I brew again and what should I brew...who cares how you do it...if you love it. Just do you and have fun.

I can't agree more! Every time I check on a FV while it bubbles away, I feel a certain level of excitement, satisfaction and anticipation. There is no better review than I got from a buddy recently...."WOW, you made this? I rather have your beer than anything I can buy".

Yep, it's a passion.
 
Bam Revvy nails it again!

There's actually been people on here who were convinced that extract was some artificial petroleum based concoction or something, instead of just concentrated wort like the unconcentrated wort ag brewers do. Of course they're usually the same folks who think the BMC is made from that same sort of stuff too. :rolleyes:
 
There's actually been people on here who were convinced that extract was some artificial petroleum based concoction or something, instead of just concentrated wort like the unconcentrated wort ag brewers do. Of course they're usually the same folks who think the BMC is made from that same sort of stuff too. :rolleyes:

And I truly thought that BMC beers were petroleum based!!!
 
Personally I think that the boil concentrates some wort, but extracts go a LOT further from mashed wort than simply mashed wort. DME is compeltely dried. I'm not a scientist, but I have a hard time believing that completely drying wort doesn't modify it in some way. Maybe not terribly noticeably, but nevertheless there has to be some change.

As far as LME, you can tell just by the color that there is a change going on. You can create melanoidins in the kettle, but you can't take them out of the extract.

For me one example is condensed or dry milk. Mix some of that up and drink it side-by-side with a fresh milk. Can you taste a difference?

Bottom line is that although AG generally takes longer to brew, and there is a slightly higher start-up cost, and the process is not quite as straightforward, it's also comparably cheaper, gives greater flexibility in ingredients and process, and there is no question about it being "processed" or not.

Of course you can make good extract beer, and you can make good AG beer, or you can make bad extract beer and bad AG beer. IMO the benefits of AG outweigh the benefits of extract. I like plotting a recipe and having to decide on the options that make a small but noticeable change in the flavor of the beer.
 
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Someone should forward this thread to Brulosopher...this would make a good exbeerment.

It would be inconclusive because it's going to be subjectively based on the skills of the brewer/brewers tested, and equipment, etc.

Charlie Papazian or John Palmer on a blingy system with temp control could nail it, you or me maybe not.. does that mean the idea doesn't hold merit? Or maybe one of them brews the AG recipe first then is tired 6 hours later and doesn't pay as much attention to his extract batch, or does the 'converted" base recipe actually produce an equal beer? Like I said earlier I couldn't make as good as a bell's clone with AG as my extract turned out.. so it's doubtful anyone could come of with a perfect exbeeriment that someone else wouldn't poke holes through the methodology.
 
And I truly thought that BMC beers were petroleum based!!!
I've been thinking about doing a Petroleum IPA. You know, a PIPA. I don't want to make the petroleum taste *too* strong. I was thinking just, like two pounds of crude for a five gallon batch. Would you add that a flameout, or just go full boil?
 
My beers have been soooo much better after going all grain, on top of playing with my water. You can also make more styles with all grain than you can with extract. The only positive I see (in the LHBS favor) is more money for extract.
 
I've been thinking about doing a Petroleum IPA. You know, a PIPA. I don't want to make the petroleum taste *too* strong. I was thinking just, like two pounds of crude for a five gallon batch. Would you add that a flameout, or just go full boil?

IMO it doesn't matter. Just keep it away from an open flame.......
 
I've been thinking about doing a Petroleum IPA. You know, a PIPA. I don't want to make the petroleum taste *too* strong. I was thinking just, like two pounds of crude for a five gallon batch. Would you add that a flameout, or just go full boil?

I'd add it to the fermenter once the krausen starts to drop. I've had success this way with my Lamp Lighter Kerosene IPA.

:mug:
 
Nothing wrong with extract brewing, but mashing is the part of brewing that I like the most (except for maybe enjoying the finished product).
 
I didn't read all the posts, so maybe this was already mentioned. Who told you this, hombrew shop employees? Guess what, they make more profit off extract than grains. Make sense why they'd tell you to stick with extract? I personally can tell a difference between my extract brews and AG. BIAB is almost as simple as extract, and I don't think I'll ever do an extract brew again.
 
I have brewed multiple batches of extract beers and have been quite happy with them. Extract is easy to manage and the wife and I have the system down to a science making it a fun, family adventure.

I have been kicking tires and asking advice about all-grain or BIAB. Lots of good advice, seems very doable with just a bit more work and equipment involved. My question involves the end product, or finished and conditioned beer.

Several guys at the LHBS I use tell me why bother with all-grain since extract beer is so good. They say that extract beers win awards in competitions so why bother with BIAB. I'm sure some will support this theory, while other will gnash their teeth in disbelief. So one guy tells me (supported by others listening in) that he can make an all-grain brew of a pale ale (for example), then an extract version using the same recipe subbing LME or DME, and he swears I won't be able to tell the difference in blind taste test. He challenges me to this and I am waiting for his two beers to come of age so we can do this brown bag comparison.

This is an opinion based question for sure, but is his advice that extract beers can equal all-grain beers in taste True or False in your opinion?

I have brewed multiple batches of extract beers and have been quite happy with them TRUE. Extract is easy to manage TRUE and the wife and I have the system down to a science TRUE making it a fun, family adventure.TRUE

I have been kicking tires FALSE and asking advice about all-grain or BIAB TRUE. Lots of good advice,TRUE & FLASE seems very doable with just a bit more work and equipment involved. TRUE My question involves the end product, TRUE or finished and conditioned beer. TRUE

Several guys at the LHBS I use tell me why bother with all-grain since extract beer is so good TRUE. They say that extract beers win awards in competitions TRUE so why bother with BIAB. I'm sure some will support this theory TRUE, while other will gnash their teeth in disbelief TRUE So one guy tells me (supported by others listening in) that he can make an all-grain brew of a pale ale TRUE (for example), then an extract version using the same recipe subbing LME or DME, TRUE and he swears I won't be able to tell the difference in blind taste test FALSE. He challenges me to this TRUE and I am waiting for his two beers to come of age so we can do this brown bag comparison TRUE.

This is an opinion based question for sure TRUE, but is his advice that extract beers can equal all-grain beers in taste FALSE True or False in your opinion? FALSE is TRUE

Hope this helped. :ban:
 
Seriously though...I have done the Sierra Nevada Ex-beer-iment making an all-grain, extract, and buying the commercial.

Starting off sober, everyone voted for which one's which by color alone (no tasting), tasting samples from a red cup (blindfolded), and by smelling a sample.

The results were what I thought they may be... 100% of beer mooching friends picked out the extract by taste and color noting that 'extract twang'. Color because DUH...it's darker, and about 50/50 picked the extract by smell (total guessing if you ask me). The differences between the commercial and all-grain were a very slight color difference, even slighter taste difference, but it was split on which one was which.

We then watched YouTube videos, bbq'd some ribs, and dressed the dog up like a pirate. Good times.
 
Even after I get setup fr all grain I will still do some extract batches in the depths of winter. Easier to brew in my kitchen than to haul water to the garage(heated) and probably have to drag stuff in the house for cleaning...
 
I absolutely love doing all-grain, and a basic gravity fed system is actually pretty damn cheap. I calculated after 5-6 batches it pays for itself. And yeah, my beer got considerably better after the switch from extract.

The choices! It is like 100 times more enjoyable building an AG recipe than an extract one. You can make, anything!

No matter what the case. Know what your system is capable of and stay in that area, you will keep making good beer.
 
I have brewed multiple batches of extract beers and have been quite happy with them. Extract is easy to manage and the wife and I have the system down to a science making it a fun, family adventure.

I have been kicking tires and asking advice about all-grain or BIAB. Lots of good advice, seems very doable with just a bit more work and equipment involved. My question involves the end product, or finished and conditioned beer.

Several guys at the LHBS I use tell me why bother with all-grain since extract beer is so good. They say that extract beers win awards in competitions so why bother with BIAB. I'm sure some will support this theory, while other will gnash their teeth in disbelief. So one guy tells me (supported by others listening in) that he can make an all-grain brew of a pale ale (for example), then an extract version using the same recipe subbing LME or DME, and he swears I won't be able to tell the difference in blind taste test. He challenges me to this and I am waiting for his two beers to come of age so we can do this brown bag comparison.

This is an opinion based question for sure, but is his advice that extract beers can equal all-grain beers in taste True or False in your opinion?

I can tell you right now that your LHBS has a larger profit margin on extract than grain....

You can make great beer with extract, and great beer with all grain. Grain is cheaper, more fun, more variety, and feels more like actually making beer from scratch than extract IMO, which is why I switched to BIAB after two extract batches. If you simply want to make good beer in the easiest way, even if the ingredients are more expensive, stick with extract. If you want to move on to more advanced processes that allow you more variety and more ways to customize your beer, go all grain. BIAB is a great way to go all grain without spending a ton on new equipment.
 
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