Having fresh crushed grain and making a starter? How many trips to the LHBS do I have

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nolabrew85

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My LHBS is not very far, but it's also not convenient, plus it doesn't open until 10 am, I like to start brewing at 8 am in the morning or earlier. Also, I generally make 2-3 L starters, so I like to make them 2 days before brew day, so I have time to decant the starter. So since I don't have a grain mill, I have to choose between having a nice starter or very fresh crushed grain. Anyone else have this issue? What's the resolution? Do I need to spend money on damn barley crusher? I will but I'd rather not or a plastic container with a lid or container with a seal tight lid? I really just want to try a brew with grain crushed right before brewing. Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks!
 
Maybe I just don't get it, but why do you have to choose? If you're that set on having fresh crush grain right before you brew, then yes buy a mill. Or brew later in the day. You can buy yeast in advance and keep it in the fridge to make your starter.
 
You could keep 5-10 lbs of crushed grain in a zip lock bag in the freezer to make starters, and buy your grain 5 minutes before you brew.

Or make a bunch of starter wort and freeze it, and boil it prior to making your starters.

You can also buy canned starter wort, DME, or I have even heard of people using apple juice to make starters.

I also doubt there is really much if any difference b/w grain crushed 2-3 days prior to brewing and grain crushed immediately before brewing, assuming the crushed grain is well stored.
 
My LHBS is not very far, but it's also not convenient, plus it doesn't open until 10 am, I like to start brewing at 8 am in the morning or earlier. Also, I generally make 2-3 L starters, so I like to make them 2 days before brew day, so I have time to decant the starter. So since I don't have a grain mill, I have to choose between having a nice starter or very fresh crushed grain. Anyone else have this issue? What's the resolution? Do I need to spend money on damn barley crusher? I will but I'd rather not or a plastic container with a lid or container with a seal tight lid? I really just want to try a brew with grain crushed right before brewing. Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks!

You don't actually have to choose. Make your starter two days before your brew day, then get your grain crushed freshly right before you brew, and use your yeast. Then you get both.

However, I HIGHLY doubt you'd be able to detect a difference between grain crushed the day before and right before.

Secondly, you should make a grain mill a high priority brewing purchase. Besides being able to crush it right before you brew, you control the crush, not your LHBS.
 
My LHBS is not very far, but it's also not convenient, plus it doesn't open until 10 am, I like to start brewing at 8 am in the morning or earlier. Also, I generally make 2-3 L starters, so I like to make them 2 days before brew day, so I have time to decant the starter. So since I don't have a grain mill, I have to choose between having a nice starter or very fresh crushed grain. Anyone else have this issue? What's the resolution? Do I need to spend money on damn barley crusher? I will but I'd rather not or a plastic container with a lid or container with a seal tight lid? I really just want to try a brew with grain crushed right before brewing. Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks!

So you like to make large starters and you want the freshest crushed grain possible and you don't want to buy a mill. Are there any other issues you want to discuss with this group? I think you are going overboard both on the large starters and on needing the fresh crushed grains. I seriously doubt that you can tell any difference in the beer if you use a small starter or even just a smack pack for your beer and even more so the difference between grains crushed on the day you brew as opposed to grains crushed a month in advance. I think you simply need to relax and have a couple brews.:mug:
 
If it makes you feel any better, consider the words of 18th century author E. Hughes (A Treatise on the Brewing of Beer, 1796):

"I have known many persons neglect giving orders for their malt till the day before they intend to brew; but malt should be ground four or five days, or a week would not be too long for brown malt, but great care must be taken to keep it in a dry place.

Malt, ground a reasonable time before it is used, loses the heat which it receives in grinding, and reduces it to a soft and mellow state; it will receive the water more freely, and a greater quantity of wort may be made than if it was brewed immediately after it was ground. The beer will also work much better in the tun and in less time become fit for use than if brewed as soon as it comes from the mill. This is proved by good housekeepers, who have their wheat ground two or three days before they use it; for by losing the heat it receives from the mill in grinding, the flour will be lighter, and receive the yeast and water more freely, than if used immediately from the mill."
You can download the Kindle edition of this book for free from Amazon, or read it online here. I find it most revealing, considering its age and the biases we have about what people knew "way back when."
 
I always use DME for my starters. I have a dedicated air-tight container full of it so that it's ready to go whenever my brew schedule dictates that I need to start my starter. The point is really to fire up the yeast so as long as they are active, I don't really think you would notice much of an improvement using a starter made with grains.

if you go this route then you never have to worry about making a trip to the LHBS for grain, or compromising a few days of crushed grain.
 
I think there was some confusion about the way I worded this. I don't use grain to make a starter, I use DME. And as far as starters go, I have noticed a big difference in the beer I make with the appropriate sized starter per mrmalty.com. They are 2-3 L usually because it is a somewhat high gravity ale for a 10 gal batch of 5 gal lower gravity lager. So I guess my real concern is having grain that is optimally fresh on brewday even though purchased 2 days before. I live in New Orleans, and it is VERY humid here and pretty warm 5 months out of the year. I am essentially trying to decide if my pre-crushed grain is fine for 2 days in the used malt bag my LHBS gives it to me in, OR if I would notice a difference in efficiency and finished product that crushed grain was stored in an airtight container (like something with a gamma lid) (storing grains in the freezer is not an option; i make 10 gal. batchers mostly and do not have that much room), OR will there be greatest difference with my own mill for grain milled that morning? A good air tight storage bin is about $40-50; a decent mill with hopper appears to be about $140; so not a huge difference, but something to think about. In other words, airtight bin to store crushed grains for 2 days or buy a mill. I want to hear your opinions. Thanks
 
I think there was some confusion about the way I worded this. I don't use grain to make a starter, I use DME. And as far as starters go, I have noticed a big difference in the beer I make with the appropriate sized starter per mrmalty.com. They are 2-3 L usually because it is a somewhat high gravity ale for a 10 gal batch of 5 gal lower gravity lager. So I guess my real concern is having grain that is optimally fresh on brewday even though purchased 2 days before. I live in New Orleans, and it is VERY humid here and pretty warm 5 months out of the year. I am essentially trying to decide if my pre-crushed grain is fine for 2 days in the used malt bag my LHBS gives it to me in, OR if I would notice a difference in efficiency and finished product that crushed grain was stored in an airtight container (like something with a gamma lid) (storing grains in the freezer is not an option; i make 10 gal. batchers mostly and do not have that much room), OR will there be greatest difference with my own mill for grain milled that morning? A good air tight storage bin is about $40-50; a decent mill with hopper appears to be about $140; so not a huge difference, but something to think about. In other words, airtight bin to store crushed grains for 2 days or buy a mill. I want to hear your opinions. Thanks

OR* 5 gal. lower gravity lager
 
I only recently bought a mill, so I would get grain crushed at the LHBS, up to 3 days before brew day. I've never noticed a difference in efficiency. I think you will be fine as well
 
I think there was some confusion about the way I worded this. I don't use grain to make a starter, I use DME. And as far as starters go, I have noticed a big difference in the beer I make with the appropriate sized starter per mrmalty.com. They are 2-3 L usually because it is a somewhat high gravity ale for a 10 gal batch of 5 gal lower gravity lager. So I guess my real concern is having grain that is optimally fresh on brewday even though purchased 2 days before. I live in New Orleans, and it is VERY humid here and pretty warm 5 months out of the year. I am essentially trying to decide if my pre-crushed grain is fine for 2 days in the used malt bag my LHBS gives it to me in, OR if I would notice a difference in efficiency and finished product that crushed grain was stored in an airtight container (like something with a gamma lid) (storing grains in the freezer is not an option; i make 10 gal. batchers mostly and do not have that much room), OR will there be greatest difference with my own mill for grain milled that morning? A good air tight storage bin is about $40-50; a decent mill with hopper appears to be about $140; so not a huge difference, but something to think about. In other words, airtight bin to store crushed grains for 2 days or buy a mill. I want to hear your opinions. Thanks

Get a mill. Take control of your crush.
 
I usually bring a fermenting bucket with me for my grain. I also go a few days prior to brew day so I can get my starter going. I crush my grain at the same time, and keep it sealed in the bucket, or sealed in a plastic bag until brew day. I've never been concerned with a decline in quality in my grain over the 1-2 days it sits sealed up, post crush. I think you've overthinking things.
 
yeah, if ur doing smaller batches then u could do what I do and keep DME on hand for your starters...that way u can make a starter with ur washed yeast or what is more common for me--
go to the brew store on Wednesday and get my grain crushed then for a Friday or Saturday brew...a few days really makes very little difference if u store the crushed grain in the fridge.
that being said if I was brewing any bigger than 2.5g batches, I'd buy a grain mill.
 
A Corona mill will set you back about $20. it's a cheap investment and you can grind all your grain before you brew to keep it fresh.
 
My LHBS is not very far, but it's also not convenient, plus it doesn't open until 10 am, I like to start brewing at 8 am in the morning or earlier. Also, I generally make 2-3 L starters, so I like to make them 2 days before brew day, so I have time to decant the starter. So since I don't have a grain mill, I have to choose between having a nice starter or very fresh crushed grain. Anyone else have this issue? What's the resolution? Do I need to spend money on damn barley crusher? I will but I'd rather not or a plastic container with a lid or container with a seal tight lid? I really just want to try a brew with grain crushed right before brewing. Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks!

The owner of my LHBS said he makes a batch of 1.040 beer and keeps it in a keg for starters. Greatest idea ever.
 
You will still need air tight containers to store your unmilled grain but getting a mill is the way to go. I'm also a big believer in pitching big starters. Good starters insure good yeast viability. If you just pitch from smack packs or vials your lag times will vary due to packaging date. I use a pressure cooker to make starter wort a month or two in advance. Just add 3.2 oz of DME to a quart of warm water and cook for 15 min under pressure. I always have plenty of starter wort on hand ready to pitch at room temp.
 
The owner of my LHBS said he makes a batch of 1.040 beer and keeps it in a keg for starters. Greatest idea ever.

I wonder how he keeps it from spontaneously fermenting? Perhaps he hot kegs it at boiling temps aka "no chilling" in the keg?

I really like that idea, and hot filling the keg should keep it pasteurized, although it's not sterilized. That could pose a potential issue over time (botulism and so).

Just wonder how he does sanitary dispensing. Through a cobra tap?
 
Buy a corona mill, base malts in bulk, and store them in their original sacks in a 55g trash can with lid. You'll fit a couple sacks in a can. Buy your specialty malts as needed when you buy your yeast. Crush at home when you want.
 
You are really worried about keeping your crushed grain for two days? You can find threads on here of guys who have resurrected crushed grains that are years old. I highly doubt you will tell any difference. At least try it and see if it works.for you.
 
You will still need air tight containers to store your unmilled grain but getting a mill is the way to go. I'm also a big believer in pitching big starters. Good starters insure good yeast viability. If you just pitch from smack packs or vials your lag times will vary due to packaging date. I use a pressure cooker to make starter wort a month or two in advance. Just add 3.2 oz of DME to a quart of warm water and cook for 15 min under pressure. I always have plenty of starter wort on hand ready to pitch at room temp.

Why would you need an airtight container to store the uncrushed grains. This is how my grains are stored. These grains have not been malted if that should make a difference but the wheat has been in there for over 2 years and still smells as fresh as when I put it in.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/grain-55954.html
 
Why would you need an airtight container to store the uncrushed grains. This is how my grains are stored. These grains have not been malted if that should make a difference but the wheat has been in there for over 2 years and still smells as fresh as when I put it in.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/photo/grain-55954.html

Yup, same way that breweries store them.
ViKE86P.jpg

(Troeg's old Harrisburg location)
 
Once I open a bag I prefer to keep the balance of the malt in a sealed container as a deterrent to critters.
 
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