PUNGE Clone

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Brendanbrez

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I am very interested in brewing a clone of PUNGE by Tired Hands. I have seen the description that it is brewed with a base of oats. Does that typically mean that the grain bill would be around 80% oats. I feel as if the mouthfeel is very different from all other beers out there. I just wanted to put this out there because I haven't seen other home brewers talking about it online.
 
I am very interested in brewing a clone of PUNGE by Tired Hands. I have seen the description that it is brewed with a base of oats. Does that typically mean that the grain bill would be around 80% oats. I feel as if the mouthfeel is very different from all other beers out there. I just wanted to put this out there because I haven't seen other home brewers talking about it online.

YES!!! I just got to try this beer fresh and it is now on my top 3 DIPA's. I really wanna know how to brew with oats as a base as well. Please someone out there has to know a little about this. School us!
 
Just listened to a recent interview with Jean where he specifies the oats he brews with are malted oats not flaked oats. And he mentioned using about 30-40% oats in the bill. I threw a quick recipe together on beersmith for Monday. Now I've personally never brewed with malted oats but have tried hard to find some research on brewing with them, specifically with mash temps/ boil length and the such. I did throw an email out to tired hands crossing my fingers it does get to Jean like I intended. I just asked for some pointers for brewing with malted oats as a base as opposed to barley

7.5# 2-row
5# malted oats
2# white wheat malt
.5# carafoam

Wyeast 1318 1.5L starter

1# corn sugar at 15 min
1 oz magnum @60
2 oz motueka @flameout
2 oz Nelson @flameout
4 oz Nelson @whirpool 30min
2 oz motueka @whirpool 30min

Haven't decided the dry hop yet but either (2)2oz or (2)3oz dry hop additions with each being half/half motueka and Nelson. I add my first addition an oz at a time around day 7 when ferm slows. I still like to see a little krausen on top but not tons of bubbling in the blow off. So I'll add an oz each day for example on days 7,8,9,10. My second addition is identical to the first but I wait until everything is all finished up (primary only) at the 2-2.5 week mark and add the dry hops to the keg with the nylon bag/floss
method.

I'll throw it in the temp control freezer at about 35-40F and carb over 3 days which gives the second dry hop addition to work its magic and also round the timeline out to about 3 weeks from brew day. I do believe beers need at least that amount of time to come together flavor wise. I used to be so eager to dry hop but was doing it way to early and by the time the beer had finally come together and matured the aroma had dropped off. Now I save that last addition right to the very end.
 
^Looks like a solid start. Please keep us posted on how it turns out. I'm not familiar with malted oats.
 
A recent "5 star" review for the Fawcett oat malt for sale at Northern Brewer, which is the only oat malt I know of:

Great secret ingredient
Use this unique malt in all of my NE IPAs -- the husks help w/the sparge on these wheat malt heavy brews -- and the oat malt gives a nice smooth creaminess to the head/beer.

Here's a second review:


Who knew?
I had no idea that oats could be malted, and that the malted grain would have good diastatic power and yield. I had only used flaked oats in the past, to add body and head retention to beers. But I've used malted oats to make the historical Dutch oat beer called Kuyt twice now, and it is different and very nice. The malt may need to be crushed twice or with a tighter setting, but I have had no problems with stuck sparges.
 
So just brewed this up... Definitely had an issue converting the oats to sugars in the mash. I've had amazing efficiency so far with my current system and there's just absolutely no other reason my first rubbings were coming in so low... I'm talking a target of about 1.080 and an actually 1.054. The crush on the oats from Northern Brewer did not look fantastic... Post mash the oat hulls looked a lot like the size of rice hulls and they were whole. A recirculating mash or some good stirs during mash would aid in getting every little starch better exposure.

That being said... The color from the oat is really really pale which I'm excited about. It's a nice break to the amber color from 2row IPAs.

I'll follow up as the next two weeks go along.
 
Sorry to hear about your efficiency issues with the oats. With NB crush I was having to mash 75+ minutes to get full conversion. I ended up picking up a cereal killer a couple months ago. Since I started crushing my own grains my efficiency is averaging 75-80%. Keep us posted on the results.
 
Thanks for experimenting! I wonder if a 20 minute protein rest would help aid in conversion. Excited to see how it turns out.
 
Protein rests are pretty obsolete with the highly modified/high quality malts we get from maltsters today - a beta glucan rest might be more beneficial for lower mash viscosity (oats are high in beta glucans, the same stuff that makes your morning oatmeal sticky) - both rests generally fall within similar temperature ranges. Just to clarify!
 
Here was what I went in with. Like I said, my OG nowhere near the calculated one. As I saw it was low doing into the kettle I also chose not to add the corn sugar. Hop additions all the same. Was rippin real hard in the fermenter after 18 hrs

image.jpg
 
Here are my water additions. Mash pH actually came in around 5.4 which I expected, and wanted, because EZ water has been shooting a bit high. I attribute this towards the salt residue not making it into the mash

image.jpg
 
So just brewed this up... Definitely had an issue converting the oats to sugars in the mash. I've had amazing efficiency so far with my current system and there's just absolutely no other reason my first rubbings were coming in so low... I'm talking a target of about 1.080 and an actually 1.054. The crush on the oats from Northern Brewer did not look fantastic... Post mash the oat hulls looked a lot like the size of rice hulls and they were whole. A recirculating mash or some good stirs during mash would aid in getting every little starch better exposure.

That being said... The color from the oat is really really pale which I'm excited about. It's a nice break to the amber color from 2row IPAs.

I'll follow up as the next two weeks go along.

Just brewed with TF Oats for the first time last night and had the exact same issue. I will likely crush the Oats on their own as opposed to with my base malt next time, and maybe run them through twice.

Target was 1.o55 and I hit 1.050 which is a massive miss for me.
 
So just brewed this up... Definitely had an issue converting the oats to sugars in the mash. I've had amazing efficiency so far with my current system and there's just absolutely no other reason my first rubbings were coming in so low... I'm talking a target of about 1.080 and an actually 1.054. The crush on the oats from Northern Brewer did not look fantastic... Post mash the oat hulls looked a lot like the size of rice hulls and they were whole. A recirculating mash or some good stirs during mash would aid in getting every little starch better exposure.

That being said... The color from the oat is really really pale which I'm excited about. It's a nice break to the amber color from 2row IPAs.

I'll follow up as the next two weeks go along.

Here are my water additions. Mash pH actually came in around 5.4 which I expected, and wanted, because EZ water has been shooting a bit high. I attribute this towards the salt residue not making it into the mash

The sulfates in that profile are very very high. Most folks with NE IPAs have been going for high Calcium Chloride levels as well. Try going for 150 CaCl and 75-100 Sulfates to get an even more creamy beer.
 
It's the same profile I've been using for most if not all of my ipas. I may try lowering the sulfates but don't want to raise chlorides up that high. I want as little malt accentuation as possible. I like neutral crisp light bright malt
 
I brewed with TF Oat Malt this past weekend also. Check that you have the correct potential extract for your calculations. The dry basis fine grind extract is much lower than most if not all other malts. Recent lots are in the low 60% range and if also taking into consideration the moisture content, gives only 1.027 potential vs. 1.0359 for the Weyemann Pilsner I used with it. You'll also want to grind it finer. My mill is set at 0.028" and it worked well as long as the oat malt went through mixed with the conditioned Pils malt. By itself, it would have trouble and not get started through the rollers. In that case, open up the gap to 0.038" and run it through twice.
Nate
 
Day 10. 1 oz each Nelson, motueka added in dry hop (day 8). Crazy how that 1318 has a very stubborn whipped cream krausen that just lingers and lingers for me. Anyway check of the gravity I'm at 1.013 which is where I wanna be. Brings me right in around 6.5%. So this is Lil' Punge. I'll be adding 1 oz each in three days and I'll keg 3-4 days later depending on how that krausen settles. Just want to make sure those dry hops don't sit on top and actually get a chance to drop down through the beer. I'll keg with another 1 oz each in a bag. So that'll be 6 oz dry hops total all serving differently to the final outcome. The first two oz around day 7-8 help achieve that oil haze with some of the yeast still moving around. But it's very important to save the other half of your dry hops until that activity is completely complete so you don't lose anymore aroma into the airlock.

image.jpg
 
Day 15. Lil Punge in the keg today after a hatefully big dry hop. The Nelson is so prominent you can discern every little nuance of that hop. Hopefully carbed by tomorrow evening. I'll get some tasting notes and photos of a nice pour. ABV finished out between 6.5-7%. A 24 hour 40F crash did this hazy oat beer some good. Looking forward to using TF oat malt as a base again for another IPA
 
There's a shot of lil punge. Can't honestly remember one but what the original tasted like so who knows is this is close... I sure don't. I do know that it tastes great. It definitely drinks like a DIPA with a lower end abv. It's got a real pleasant booziness to it that blends really well with the white wine characteristics of the Nelson. I definitely see it brightening up after a week or so in the keg

image.jpg
 
I just brewed a NE IPA. I'm really excited because my efficiency was about 80% and the wort had a huge mouth feel. My mash schedule was a 30 minute protein rest @ 124F. Then I raised up the temp to 150F for another 60 minutes.

Grain Bill:
7lb Pilsner Malt
2lb Flaked Oats
1lb Flaked Barley

Hops:
1.5oz Citra 5min
2.25oz Citra @ Flameout
1.5oz Citra when wort reached 180F

Yeast
Conan the Barbarian from Imperial Yeast
 
I just brewed a NE IPA. I'm really excited because my efficiency was about 80% and the wort had a huge mouth feel. My mash schedule was a 30 minute protein rest @ 124F. Then I raised up the temp to 150F for another 60 minutes.

Grain Bill:
7lb Pilsner Malt
2lb Flaked Oats
1lb Flaked Barley

Hops:
1.5oz Citra 5min
2.25oz Citra @ Flameout
1.5oz Citra when wort reached 180F

Yeast
Conan the Barbarian from Imperial Yeast

Did you boil for 60 or 90 min with the pils?
 
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