Dissecting pro-brewers' fermentation practices and comparing to homebrewing?

Hi everybody!
I am brewing 1.045 - 1.055 ales which usually reach terminal gravity on day 3-4 and I keep wondering if keeping the beer in the fermenter a lot longer than that is necessary.

I've been listening to interviews some professional brewers have given, paying special attention to their fermentation regime.

A brewer describing their award winner 4.7% pale ale described it roughly as: monitor fermentation until 1/2 plato above terminal, this happens in 3 days, add dry hops and keep them in for 3-4 days after which, if the beer passes diacetil test, the hops/yeast is dumped and the beer conditioned cold (I assume for stability) prior packaging.

Stating the obvious, it appears to me that in professional brewing, when the beer is ready, the beer is packaged and sold. How this compares to homebrewing, where to the best of my knowledge, we rarely take less than 2 weeks to package?

For example, lets say I make 1.050 wort for non-dry hopped beer, start fermentation at 17C and set my controller to cap the rising temperature to 20C. When the beer reaches FG (or it is very close to), up the temperature to 22C for 24 hours. In my limited experience, all this may take about 4-5 days. That means that I could be packaging 7 days after pitching, including 2 days of cold crashing. Assumed fast fermenting flocculant healthy yeast (such as WLP002 or WLP007), proper levels of oxygen and knowledge where the FG is meant to end up.

Thanks!

You can crank out a beer in a week if you want to. There are plenty of articles on how to have a finished beer in 7-12 days, here's one: & good luck...

https://byo.com/aging/item/1397-speed-brewing

madscientist451 said:

You can crank out a beer in a week if you want to. There are plenty of articles on how to have a finished beer in 7-12 days, here's one: & good luck...

https://byo.com/aging/item/1397-speed-brewing

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Thanks for pointing to the article ... I guess though I am looking for the answer to the question you post, "if you want to". Why would these practices be advised or advised against ..

Fermentation sometimes takes longer. If you want to means the brewery might want to let their beer sit for 10 days to clear because they don't have tanks. We have a brewery here that only lagers. It's all what you want to do not what the other guy does that impacts your beer.

As stated above, most breweries push the timeline to free up fermenters. That said, their end product shows that you can do a quick turn around without any impact on quality of you pay attention to all the details you stated. So it's really up to you.

@DurtyChemist @tagz

I see what you are saying and I am not personally in a hurry ... However considering a beer with big hop character that you want to consume as fresh as possible. That would be a reason to speed up the process, wouldn't it?

p_p said:

@DurtyChemist @tagz

I see what you are saying and I am not personally in a hurry ... However considering a beer with big hop character that you want to consume as fresh as possible. That would be a reason to speed up the process, wouldn't it?

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There is a difference between "speeding up" and the process taking exactly the time it needs.

My experience is that with proper yeast health, cell count and oxygenation at pitching your beer will be done in 3-10 days depending on original gravity and yeast strain. My beers are often packaged one week after pitching with the exception of my lagers which I package at the 14 day mark (my lagers also get up to two weeks cold storage in the keg before consumption, not necessary, just part of my own process).

The common advise to leave beer in primary for several weeks is based on this forum being read by the casual home brewer that may or may not have adequate means to ensure the yeast conditions I listed above as well as fermentation temp control and other factors. It's an "insurance policy" if you will, not necessarily a rule.

p_p said:

@DurtyChemist @tagz

However considering a beer with big hop character that you want to consume as fresh as possible. That would be a reason to speed up the process, wouldn't it?

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Don't extrapolate the brewer's practice on one beer to mean that's what happens to all the beers. It only means that beer is given the right amount of time to be ready, no more, no less.

Commercial practices are based on economics as much as on taste. The two are linked when you're running a business. If I can shorten my fermentation by six days, I could get 10 more batches out of the tank in a year. But that doesn't work if the beer flavor isn't ready.

p_p said:

@DurtyChemist @tagz

I see what you are saying and I am not personally in a hurry ... However considering a beer with big hop character that you want to consume as fresh as possible. That would be a reason to speed up the process, wouldn't it?

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For beer styles that are better fresh, its good to wail them out quickly***. If you are kegging its much easier to achieve those times. Bottle conditioning, if you *know* your beer is done fermenting its not too bad, but the extra time is just to make sure you're not going to get bottle bombs.

I recently brewed a black IPA and sent it to competition, bottle conditioned, in 4 weeks with an OG of 1.080 and ended up placing second in specialty IPA. So its entirely possible to do it, it depends on what your needs and wants are.

Professionals do it because they have to make money and continue to pump beer out.

Homebrewers do it for a couple reasons. Kegs are empty and have nothing to serve so they want a fast beer ready. Or they turn around an IPA/Pale Ale in a 2 weeks because they want the *freshest* hop character possible. Or they are sending those "fresh" style beers to competition to give their beer the best possible chance to score big.


***So long as the beer is well taken care of, yeast health and all that jazz.

p_p said:

Thanks for pointing to the article ... I guess though I am looking for the answer to the question you post, "if you want to". Why would these practices be advised or advised against ..

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Some people simply like the flavor imparted by a longer contact time with the trub.

Try it yourself. Split a batch. Package one early, package the other late.

All other things being equal, see which YOU prefer.

That's the only way to know your preference.

I generally package my beers quickly, compared to other brewers on this forum. That's not good or bad necessarily- it's MY preference in flavor.

For most of my "smallish" beers (SG < 1.06) I've recently migrated over to a quick ferment method that I'm pretty happy with:

- Ferment at low end of yeast tolerance for 5 days*
- Ramp to high end of yeast tolerance for 2 days
- Cold crash/fine for 2 days
- Package

I do this basically because fermenter space is at a premium (I only have two temp controlled chambers) while keg space is ample. This allows me to brew more often and keep the pipeline flowing. Now that my pipeline is going pretty well, most of these beers sit in the keg carbing up for 2-3 weeks anyway, so any "conditioning" that needed to happen can happen there.

I took one of these quick turn beers, quick carbed it, and served it 2 days after packaging, and it still tasted pretty green. I left it for a few days, tried it again, and it was better, repeated that, and it was nearly perfect, so I think having the extra time in the keg (if possible) is definitely a good thing.

To be able to turn a beer quickly I think you need good pitch rates and good climate control. The "leave it for 2 weeks in primary and then..." advice is pretty good general advice for people just getting into the hobby and have no idea what a pitch rate or ferm chamber is, or for people that do know what those are but choose not to incorporate them into their brewing practices.

I change this procedure up a bit for two reasons:

1) Dry hopping. If I dry hop, I generally increase the amount most recipes using a 7 day dry hop call for by 20% and do a 5 day dry hop at 65F prior to cold crashing.

2) Big beers or super hoppy beers - Those need a little longer for everything to settle down and come together in my experience, so I do leave those in primary for 2 weeks.

*You could probably get away with less than 5 days in some cases, but for me this is just an easy to remember number, I can stick a reminder on my calendar, and go check things once vs. checking it a few times up to the 5 day point to check for terminal gravity. I guess that's a nice way of saying I'm somewhat lazy, and that just works for me.

Thank you everybody for all your answers! I usually follow the advice I am given in this forum and it is in most (if not all) cases is dead on.

drgonzo2k2 said:

I change this procedure up a bit for two reasons:

1) Dry hopping. If I dry hop, I generally increase the amount most recipes using a 7 day dry hop call for by 20% and do a 5 day dry hop at 65F prior to cold crashing.

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Thanks for the write-up. May I ask why do you increase by 20% the dry-hops called for when following a recipe? Is this related to your system or just personal preference?

p_p said:

Thank you everybody for all your answers! I usually follow the advice I am given in this forum and it is in most (if not all) cases is dead on.



Thanks for the write-up. May I ask why do you increase by 20% the dry-hops called for when following a recipe? Is this related to your system or just personal preference?

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No problem at all! I hope it's helpful. Just to be clear, I don't increase every recipe by 20%, but what I found from looking at a lot of recipes is that they'd call for a 7 day dry hop. So if that's the case, I take the amount of dry hops the recipe calls for, add 20% to it, and then cut my drop hop down to 5 days.

Ain't nobody got time for a 7 day dry hop.

drgonzo2k2 said:

No problem at all! I hope it's helpful. Just to be clear, I don't increase every recipe by 20%, but what I found from looking at a lot of recipes is that they'd call for a 7 day dry hop. So if that's the case, I take the amount of dry hops the recipe calls for, add 20% to it, and then cut my drop hop down to 5 days.

Ain't nobody got time for a 7 day dry hop.

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Oh, I see. I understand now.
Thanks again, your post was very informative.

p_p said:

Oh, I see. I understand now.
Thanks again, your post was very informative.

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No worries, glad I could help!

drgonzo2k2 said:

Ain't nobody got time for a 7 day dry hop.

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Oh oh. [ame="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=waEC-8GFTP4"]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=waEC-8GFTP4[/ame]