Hop aroma & flavor problems

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

ViciousFishes

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
207
Reaction score
85
Location
Apex
I've got 4 all-grain batches under my belt and am having issues with a lack of hop aroma and flavor. My brews have turned out really nice otherwise. But three have been a brown, Amber and bitter, which are delicious even when hops are understated in an English tradition.

My Amber had 2oz of Cascade pellets at flameout that whirlpooled for 20 minutes until the wort was well under 160*. Surely it should have a wonderful, bracing hop aroma! Nope.

I have been using a hop bag that came with my spider. Since upgrading to 15 gallon Bk, the bag barely extends into my kettle. So I've been tying the bag off on the kettle handle and the hops are saturated in the wort with the rolling boil. The bitterness in my brews have been in keeping with styles and BeerSmith IBUs, but I'm getting nothin on the aroma.

My neighbor just brought over his Sierra Nevada clone that has a wonderful hop nose. He's tossing hops directly into his kettle, but I'd be surprised if that was the secret technique, since I know many of us use bags during the boil.

I'm sure this is an issue with my process. What steps should I take to fix it??
 
2 oz WP in a 15 gallon batch isn't a lot at all. I'd up the amount of hops and throw them right into the BK during the WP
 
I'm sure this is an issue with my process. What steps should I take to fix it??

You can start by posting your recipe and hop additions. Hard to give advice if we don't know what you are doing now (other than the 2 oz).

All of the styles you stated are malt forward styles that either don't have a lot of hops or cover them up with the malt flavor. You might look into brewing a true IPA recipe if you are looking for hop flavor.

You might up your hops or go with some high alpha hops like Magnum or Warrior for your bittering additions early in the boil.

If what you are really after is aroma, you might try "dry" hopping after primary fermentation is over.
 
My malt was as follows:

12# Pale malt
1# 3oz Crystal 40L
1# 3oz Crystal 80L

Here’s my hop schedule

.50 oz Cascade at 90min
.75 oz Cascade at 60min
1.0 oz Cascade at 20min
2.0 oz Cascade at 0min

I did cold crash and then fine with gelatin. I could dry hop in the keg, which I have for other beers. I just want to get this fixed going forward.

BeerSmith calculated it at 36 IBUs and the bittering is really nice for the style. There’s just no nose to speak of (and I don’t have a cold). It’s gotta be a process issue.
 
I agree w/ robopp. I'd put the whirlpool hops in the BK. After your 20 min chill & whirlpool & most of your trub should be in a nice pyramid in the center of the bottom of the BK.
 
For hoppy pale ales, I bitter at the start of the boil and then everything else is flameout steep and dry hop. For a 5 gallon batch (7 pre-boil, 6 post, 5.5 to fermenter) I typically use 2-4 ounces at the end and 1.5-3 dry hop. I do use nylon hop bags weighted with glass marbles, so the bottom is on or near the bottom of my kettle (electric system). I don't remove them during the chilling. I leave them in all the time until just before racking into the fermenter when I raise them up and use a spoon to squeeze the goodness from them against the side of the kettle. I dry hop in the keg using the same weighted bag set up, but tie dental floss to it with a loop around a post for easy retrieval. I don't put more than 2 ounces in any one bag (using these http://www.northernbrewer.com/nylon-hop-bag-8-x-9-1-4) and generally prefer to put only 1.5 ounces max in each.

So on your recipe, I'd adjust to a single hop addition upfront to achieve the bitterness desired. I don't see any point in 60 and 90 minute additions. I would also move the 20 to flameout. And let them steep longer. I usually wait 10 minutes after adding the hops before turning on the water flow to the chiller. I use Beer Alchemy as my recipe software and it normally predicts 1-3 IBU per ounce being picked up with 10 minutes at 200F depending on the AA%.
 
My favorite schedule is:

60 minutes for bittering
15 minutes for flavor
5 minutes for aroma/flavor
Flameout with a 10-20 min hopstand after chilling to 180°F or so

I rarely dry hop, but of course that'll get you a bunch of aroma too.
 
Agree with above. Later additions in greater amounts. Hell, I typically use 10 oz of hops all under 5 min and dry hop in my 5 gal batches. You won't get much bitterness if you add late. Perceived bitterness but not w bump in your IBU.
Good luck.
 
I think you need a better understanding of hop schedule construction as well as how easily the volatile oils get lost due to oxidation or high temperatures

2oz at below 160F for 20min isnt going to get you too much hop character. Especially in something malty like an amber ale. that is way too much crystal for anything hoppy

Theres an article farther down on the front page that may be of some help
 
I based this recipe on the BYO version of Anderson Valley Boont Amber (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=239390) - therefore the amounts/types of crystal and the hop schedule. I added 2 lbs of base malt in an attempt to address the efficiency issues I've been dealing with as I work to dial in my new system (2 spike kettles, MLT & BK + chugger, hoses and plate chiller). I'm employing these in a no-sparge, kind of a quasi Brutus 20 approach. I scored a great deal on a half-pound of Cascade, so I substituted the Cascade (which I love) for each of the hop additions.

In retrospect, the 90 minute boil doesn't make much sense to me. However, The brew turned out to be absolutely delicious. As you can see, it has a wonderful red/amber hue. As mentioned previously, the hops are quite subdued on the nose though the bittering is perfect. It is rich, toasty and creamy, but balanced and not cloying. I have thought about dry hopping what's left in the keg to boost the hop aroma, but don't want to chance ruining what I have as I love so much about it. I will brew this again, working to to address the issues with hop aroma. This will be a house brew.

Thanks for all the suggestions. With your help, I made a few process changes in the Kolsch I brewed this weekend. I'm trying to settle on something that can be a house brew in the warm months that will soon be here.

- I adjusted my flavor addition a bit later in the boil
- I positioned my recirculation return in the BK to point right at the hop bag in an attempt to pull more hop oils out
- I squeezed out the last bit of wort from the hop bag, instead of simply letting it drain via gravity

Please let me know of any other suggestions.

HurricaneAmber.jpg
 
Back
Top