Full volume mash / Insulated mash tun - :confused:

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

hetyu

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Hi All,

I'm started to AG homebrew ~4 years ago doing fly or batch sparge all the times.

Now I want to try something different and looking forward to full volume mash / no sparge method - read already a lot about this topic (efficiency decrease, fuller malt flavor etcetc) but still not understand one critical point.

According to the information available it works good with lower gravity beers (~1.00) but now I'm not sure about the high end gravity brews.

A large enough insulated mash tun (cooler type) would allow me to brew e.g a RIS adding all of the grains and waters (mash + sparge) that would normally used directly to the mash tun?

Please advise - thanks!
 
For big beers there's a fine balance to get a decent mash efficiency you want to control the two components of conversion efficiency (which appears to me to peak above 1.75 qt/lb) and lauter efficiency which increases with sparge volume until first and second runnings are equal.

The above is directly related to batch sparging and the special case of no sparge.

For specific numbers, look at my sig and run some simulations.
 
Thanks for the swift feedback, though I'm not really sure if I understand that correctly.
Could you be a little bit more specific?
 
C-Rider, that's just sounds way too good! :)
Do you add the whole amount of water required for pre-boil volume to the mash?
 
My RIS brew day goes like this, 26 lbs grain bill, 8 gal strike water. Mash low for 2 hours,add 3.5 gal boiling water for mashout, collect ~8 gal in first kettle, then run 4 gal thru for a small (1.035- 40) beer. I only get 4 gal for my second beer. Did 2 batches last week for next years Christmas beers, and got 1.098, using the Yeast bays Belgian Dry, it stops at 1.010, for a 10% beer. Goes higher with the whiskey sticks in secondary, but I don't know how to calculate it.
 
Hi All,

I'm started to AG homebrew ~4 years ago doing fly or batch sparge all the times.

Now I want to try something different and looking forward to full volume mash / no sparge method - read already a lot about this topic (efficiency decrease, fuller malt flavor etcetc) but still not understand one critical point.

According to the information available it works good with lower gravity beers (~1.00) but now I'm not sure about the high end gravity brews.

A large enough insulated mash tun (cooler type) would allow me to brew e.g a RIS adding all of the grains and waters (mash + sparge) that would normally used directly to the mash tun?

Please advise - thanks!

I've done BIAB batches in a converted keg that ended up in the 1.070s for OG. The only down side was I had to lift the grain bill full of water out of my keggle and that's hard to do with sharp edges, no pulley, no assistant brewer and I still made it work. I was coming in at 73% brewhouse efficiency.
 
I have been doing full volume mashes for RIS w/no problem. I do BIAB and make 2 gallon batches mashing in a 5 gal cooler. Last one had an OG of 1.115. About 80% eff.

Those numbers are pushing at the limits of what's actually possible. Well done! Would you provide the following information about this batch? I'd like to use it as a validation point for my lauter simulator.
  • Grain bill
  • Strike water volume (corrected to 68°F)
  • Pre-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)
  • Pre-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)
  • Post-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)
  • Post-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)
Brew on :mug:
 
Those numbers are pushing at the limits of what's actually possible. Well done! Would you provide the following information about this batch? I'd like to use it as a validation point for my lauter simulator.
  • Grain bill
  • Strike water volume (corrected to 68°F)3.25 g
  • Pre-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)3.0 g
  • Pre-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 16.8 SG 1.072
  • Post-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)1.9 g trub strained out
  • Post-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 26 SG 1.115
Brew on :mug:

Hope this helps. Not sure about "corrected to 68* All Brix readings from a refractometer and SG from a conversion table down loaded from somewhere on the web.
 
Hope this helps. Not sure about "corrected to 68* All Brix readings from a refractometer and SG from a conversion table down loaded from somewhere on the web.

He's referring to thermal expansion. Volume measurements have to be corrected for temperature. Depending on what temp you measured your preboil at, it could be anywhere from 1.5 to 4.4% larger than it actually is when cooled. This gives a false higher efficiency than actual due to the "increased" volume.
 
Hope this helps. Not sure about "corrected to 68* All Brix readings from a refractometer and SG from a conversion table down loaded from somewhere on the web.
As @pricelessbrewing states: "corrected to 68°F" means corrected for thermal expansion. If you don't know how to correct for thermal expansion, you could just provide your best estimates of the wort temps when you made the volume measurements, and I can do the correction for expansion.

Brew on :mug:
 
I use the constant of 4% expansion at 190* or higher, so I need to collect 14.5 gal pre boil not 14 to end up with 11.5 at end of boil 10.5 in fermenters. I was always short(that's what she said) by .5 gal, and then one time I got the DUH factor and did the calculations and wala', 5.25 in each carboy.
 
Originally Posted by doug293cz
Those numbers are pushing at the limits of what's actually possible. Well done! Would you provide the following information about this batch? I'd like to use it as a validation point for my lauter simulator.

Grain bill ???
Strike water volume (corrected to 68°F)3.25 g
Pre-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)3.0 g
Pre-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 16.8 SG 1.072
Post-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)1.9 g trub strained out
Post-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 26 SG 1.115

Brew on Hope this helps. Not sure about "corrected to 68* All Brix readings from a refractometer and SG from a conversion table down loaded from somewhere on the web.
Need to know how much grain was used in order to do any type of efficiency calculation.

Brew on :mug:
 
Ok found time:

Grain bill
Strike water volume (corrected to 68°F)3.25 g 165* before grain added 155* after grain added and mixed
Pre-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)3.0 g 135* this is a guess
Pre-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 16.8 SG 1.072
Post-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)1.9 g trub strained out 79* when volume measured and yeast added.
Post-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 26 SG 1.115

6 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 80.3 %
9.6 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.7 %
4.8 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L ) Grain 3 3.9 %
1.6 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.3 %
0.5 oz Blackprinz Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 0.4 %
8.0 oz Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 6 6.4 %

Hope this helps.
 
Ok found time:

Grain bill
Strike water volume (corrected to 68°F)3.25 g 165* before grain added 155* after grain added and mixed
Pre-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)3.0 g 135* this is a guess
Pre-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 16.8 SG 1.072
Post-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)1.9 g trub strained out 79* when volume measured and yeast added.
Post-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 26 SG 1.115

6 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 80.3 %
9.6 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.7 %
4.8 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L ) Grain 3 3.9 %
1.6 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.3 %
0.5 oz Blackprinz Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 0.4 %
8.0 oz Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 6 6.4 %

Hope this helps.
Was the molasses added before or after the pre-boil SG was measured (sugar additions complicate things a little)?

Brew on :mug:
 
I have been doing full volume mashes for RIS w/no problem. I do BIAB and make 2 gallon batches mashing in a 5 gal cooler. Last one had an OG of 1.115. About 80% eff.

Those numbers are pushing at the limits of what's actually possible. Well done! Would you provide the following information about this batch? I'd like to use it as a validation point for my lauter simulator.
  • Grain bill
  • Strike water volume (corrected to 68°F)
  • Pre-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)
  • Pre-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)
  • Post-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)
  • Post-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)
Brew on :mug:

Ok found time:

Grain bill
Strike water volume (corrected to 68°F)3.25 g 165* before grain added 155* after grain added and mixed
Pre-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)3.0 g 135* this is a guess
Pre-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 16.8 SG 1.072
Post-boil volume (corrected to 68°F)1.9 g trub strained out 79* when volume measured and yeast added.
Post-boil SG (or °Brix or °Plato)Brix 26 SG 1.115

6 lbs 4.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 80.3 %
9.6 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.7 %
4.8 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L ) Grain 3 3.9 %
1.6 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.3 %
0.5 oz Blackprinz Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 5 0.4 %
8.0 oz Molasses (80.0 SRM) Sugar 6 6.4 %

Hope this helps.

Forgot about this for a while, but finally remembered to check the numbers.

With the given grain bill, no-sparge, and squeezing to a grain absorption of 0.03 gal/lb, it is possible to get ~80% mash efficiency and 1.115 OG. That is the lower than any other grain absorption number I have seen reported (by a lot), but I won't say it's impossible.

Your Brix to SG conversions look to be off compared to either BeerSmith or this calculator.

Brew on :mug:
 
Forgot about this for a while, but finally remembered to check the numbers.

With the given grain bill, no-sparge, and squeezing to a grain absorption of 0.03 gal/lb, it is possible to get ~80% mash efficiency and 1.115 OG. That is the lower than any other grain absorption number I have seen reported (by a lot), but I won't say it's impossible.

Your Brix to SG conversions look to be off compared to either BeerSmith or this calculator.

Brew on :mug:

My Brix to SG conversion goes like this
1-Take reading w/refractometer
2-Use a chart I printed from the web to get SG.

Never tried using BS to convert.
 
Back
Top