Equipment for Yeast Study

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

GQT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
252
Reaction score
40
Location
Guangzhou
I feel like I'm interested in digging deep into yeast. I'd like to study, cultivate, separate strains, all that and perhaps more. Have no background in microbiology whatsoever but willing to cover up for that.

My question is what equipment I will need. Clean chamber with air filtration system, autoclave, stirplates, lab glassware - OK, these I know, what else?

I tried some microscopes (none with phase contrast though) and found it kind of disappointing as even at 1000x (or 1600x) it is hardly possible to see the inside of the yeast cell. But on another hand, how necessary is it to look into the cell? As I learned from some articles, it is impossible to visually tell one strain from another. I will perhaps buy a better than average microscope but only because you buy such a thing for life, and it'd be silly to save and regret it later. Probably, a good microscope will be needed for things like cell count, defining bacteria or mutations or I don't know what else purpose.

What else do I need?

I'm really a beginner in yeast field. I'll read all the books as time goes, but here at the forum I am asking for personal experiences and advice from people who study yeast as a hobby (or maybe who grew from hobby to professional yeast breeding).

Thank you.
 
We are at the same point in this obsession others call a hobby. I read the Yeast book by Cris White and Jamil, and there is a chapter on setting up your lab. Also I am fortunate to live close enough to go the 2 day brewing session at the microbiology lab at UW Stevens Point in March. Good luck.
 
Here's what I use in my lab. Gloves, a propane blowtorch to create a sterile air space (you can buy it at lowes for $15), 70% ethyl alcohol, sterile Petri dishes, autoclaveable vials, agar, and a pressure cooker (autoclave)
 
there is a chapter on setting up your lab
Thanks for good luck wish, I need tons of it :)
Talking equipment, the book lists a few truckloads of gear worth a few truckloads of bucks. That's why I'm asking you people what you have, as obviously there are priority-must-haves and there are things that can wait.
I want a soft start to make the ball roll, but I want to start nevertheless!

Here's what I use in my lab. Gloves, a propane blowtorch to create a sterile air space (you can buy it at lowes for $15), 70% ethyl alcohol, sterile Petri dishes, autoclaveable vials, agar, and a pressure cooker (autoclave)
Noted, thanks! That all I have already. But... No mic? How do you check viability and cell count?
 
I think the mic is something you can get later. Once I have the yeast on a slant, I'll inoculate about 150 ml of wort and sit it on my stir plate for 24 hours. If the wort turns all milky looking, I know I have healthy yeast.
 
I started with a 40x-2000x microscope, hemocytometer, a few pipettes, glass test tubes and beakers and some miscellaneous pieces and parts.
At this point I mainly use this gear to verify cell numbers and viability.
I start with a culture from a beer yeast manufacturer, make a starter, decant a portion for future use and repeat for a few generations using the microscope and hemocytometer to make cell counts and assess viability.
More or less I use this gear make sure I have enough healthy yeast for my brew and spread the cost for the culture over several batches.
I haven't built slants or plates but suppose that is where the rabbit hole goes next.
 
I haven't built slants or plates but suppose that is where the rabbit hole goes next.

Thanks for sharing.
To me this is exactly what I need to start with. In my place if I don't get myself stocked within the month of January I will have to wait till next winter to order liquid yeast.
By the way, as you have a 2Kx mic, how much a difference it makes compared to 1000x? Spare 20x oculars are within reach, but I heard they are seldom worth their price. Should I go for stock 10x, or opt for 16x or 20x? Sure enough it depends on the make and model but all in all, is there anything you see at 2Kx that you wouldn't see at 1K?

I am aiming at starting with:
1 - mic; 2 - reasonably big clean chamber (self made); 3 - autoclave; 4 - glass and stainless bits and pieces, flasks, beakers and all that; 5 - hemocytometer of course!; 6 - air pump and filters to serve clean chamber.
 
I have a series of youtube videos intended to get people like you (i.e. no microbiology experience) started. You can find the current video list here; I add a few videos per year so it is always (but slowly) growing.

Likewise, I have two series on my blogs on yeast wranging and on isolating wild yeast.

In terms of what you need to start, the answer is 'not much'; a pressure cooker, petri dishes, agar and alcohol lamp is enough to get you going. Don't waste money on a clean air hood - outside of a few very specific procedures, few/none of which you would do as a home yeast rancher, they're nothing more than a crutch for poor aseptic technique.

Bryan

EDIT: FWIW's I am a microbiologist
 
I have a series of youtube videos
Oh so you are that very Sui Generis! Thanks for replying!
Sure I have not watched all your videos but I have seen a few and they are quite interesting and informative. I am planning to gradually read all your blog from the beginning and download and save your clips. Thanks for great and so much needed job for the community!

Talking clean hood, I dare disagree. The air in my location is, errrr.... well, you would perhaps want to isolate your workplace from it as well if you were here.
So the option was either a completely sealed room with big HEPA filters, airtight door and sealed off window, or a clean chamber. Money wise it is petty cash, I will post pictures when I'm done with it. Might be a week or two, I'm trying to handle too many jobs at the same time now.
 
Talking clean hood, I dare disagree. The air in my location is, errrr.... well, you would perhaps want to isolate your workplace from it as well if you were here.
I doubt it - as part of my work I've setup clean stations in some of the dirtiest clinical environments you can think of (i.e. backwood African clinics) and not needed one.

B
 
I, too, would like to know the better options for a microscope and hemocytometer for a home lab.

I have a video on selecting a microscope, which while it doesn't recommend specific brands, goes through the key features to look for:


For a hemocytometer, it doesn't really matter. The cheap plastic Chinese ones are good enough for home use (+/- 10% accurasy). You can spend a lot more on a clinical-grade unit which will be a) glass, b) 5% more accurate, and c) 1,000% more expensive.

Bryan
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For a hemocytometer, it doesn't really matter. The cheap plastic Chinese ones are good enough for home use (+/- 10% accurasy). You can spend a lot more on a clinical-grade unit which will be a) glass, b) 5% more accurate, and c) 1,000% more expensive.

Bryan


Thanks Bryan, I've already watched all of your videos. Good stuff! I was looking for more input from others that have already purchased theirs.

I was looking at the glass hemocytometers, but the price was killing the wallet. I was thinking of getting a set of plastic ones I found that were reasonable for a set of 10. Since I'm not planning on doing counts too frequently, I thought that would be the best way to go.

I do plan on plating, but most of that will be for bacteria. In one video you have Sacc, Bret, Pedio and Lacto on the same plate. Is it better to run a plate for each, or is there a low chance of cross contamination happening on a single plate?
 
I've setup clean stations in some of the dirtiest clinical environments you can think of and not needed one.
B

Do you have a video specifically on this topic? To me creating a clean environment is a pain. Can't imagine how to do it without a chamber.
I am not arguing for the sake of arguing, I really want to learn some.

Making a chamber will cost me at most 30 bucks, probably 15-20 (air pump another 15, another couple of Midisart filters, 7 bucks each). Not a sum I'd care to save anyway. But if there is a way to avoid mess and save space that would be otherwise taken by chamber, I will vote for it.
 
I haven't seen anyone mention stains yet. The only way to discriminate between live cells and bad is using a stain. I've used the violet from White labs.

Here's a thread with loads of info, pics, and videos for anyone looking for more info.

BTW, I should have a link in there for a cheap glass hemocytometer from ebay. Worked fine for me. There are better, but not at this price.

Pics of Yeast under my new scope

stain_-_violet_-_oberon.jpg
 
I haven't seen anyone mention stains yet......
Here's a thread with loads of info, pics, and videos for anyone looking for more info.
Great thread, another chunk of reading for my poor eyes this weekend :)
I didn't mention stain just because it was kind of implied that one has to do stains, otherwise why bother getting a mic at all.
Thanks for input Andrew.
 
Your original post said "no background in microbiology whatsoever". I'd say that suggests that nothing should be "implied".

I'd guess that most brewers who do cell counts don't do viability with stains. It's not really necessary.

Great thread, another chunk of reading for my poor eyes this weekend :)
I didn't mention stain just because it was kind of implied that one has to do stains, otherwise why bother getting a mic at all.
Thanks for input Andrew.
 
Here's a thread with loads of info, pics, and videos
One quick question, if you don't mind. I haven't read your thread through yet so maybe the answer is somewhere there but I hope you could tell me anyway,
Your mic is binocular not trinocular, and you once mentioned you take pictures simply positioning the camera next to ocular. Do you still do the same, or have you found some more convenient way? I am considering all options before buying my own mic, and there is like $50 difference between bi- and tri-nocular versions. Is it worth paying more? Any advice?
 
One quick question, if you don't mind. I haven't read your thread through yet so maybe the answer is somewhere there but I hope you could tell me anyway,
Your mic is binocular not trinocular, and you once mentioned you take pictures simply positioning the camera next to ocular. Do you still do the same, or have you found some more convenient way? I am considering all options before buying my own mic, and there is like $50 difference between bi- and tri-nocular versions. Is it worth paying more? Any advice?

It's worth paying more. I now have an attachment that I connect to my SLR camera that lets me remove an eyepiece lens and slide it into the shaft. It works pretty well. But I wish I had gotten a trinoc instead.
 
I was looking at the glass hemocytometers, but the price was killing the wallet. I was thinking of getting a set of plastic ones I found that were reasonable for a set of 10. Since I'm not planning on doing counts too frequently, I thought that would be the best way to go.
Most of the plastic ones can be rinsed with water and reused, so your dollar goes even farther.

I do plan on plating, but most of that will be for bacteria. In one video you have Sacc, Bret, Pedio and Lacto on the same plate. Is it better to run a plate for each, or is there a low chance of cross contamination happening on a single plate?
If you are starting with pure cultures, it is best to keep them on separate plates to reduce the risk of cross-contamination. Most of the time when I have mixed cultures on a plate, its because the original source was a mixed culture as well.

Bryan
 
Do you have a video specifically on this topic? To me creating a clean environment is a pain. Can't imagine how to do it without a chamber.
I have two; one on setting up a clean work space:

The other on aseptic techniques:

So long as you can find a relatively draft-free area which you can clean up reasonably well, you should be good to go. The kitchen is often a good place, but I do most of my home-culturing in our unfinished basement or he garage.


Making a chamber will cost me at most 30 bucks, probably 15-20 (air pump another 15, another couple of Midisart filters, 7 bucks each). Not a sum I'd care to save anyway. But if there is a way to avoid mess and save space that would be otherwise taken by chamber, I will vote for it.
IMO, a chamber built like that is unlikely to help much; to provide a sterile flow of air that moves fast enough to produce a clean space resistant to drafts and movement (of things like your hands, etc), you need a pretty high airflow rates and HEPA filtering; the standard for lab units is something on the order of ~100 chamber volumes of air/minute. Below that, and/or with sub-optimal filtering, you may actually make the situation worse rather than better.

Bryan
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks again Bryan! I'm ordering my micro and hemocytometer today. I'm just waffling back and forth between binocular and trinocular. The difference in price would allow me to purchase the camera and have the ability to project for educational purposes (I'm the Education Chair for our Homebrew Club), plus I still have Middle School kids that would benefit as well.
 
There are camera setups that will connect to a normal binocular scope - we use them in our teaching labs. But, if you can afford the extra and plan on taking a lot of images, the trinocular is the way to go.

Bryan
 
Guess I have to take a lot of pictures as without any microbio background I am doomed to ask lots of questions about what I saw and what it could mean, and for that I will need pictures to show.
So, trinocular it will be. Thank you for easing my choice.
 
My microscope is finally delivered, unpacked, assembled and ready to rock and roll :)

27162716460706773.gif


Could you guys please advise me on a more or less complete list of reagents I will/might need? I don't mind getting more than I would need right away, so the list may be a bit over-complete.
Besides doing yeast study I might as well get interested in trying to identify bacteria, so I would like to buy whatever chemicals that are necessary for that.
PLEASE if possible use "correct", not slangish names of the chemicals - I will have to translate them into Chinese and somehow make people understand what exactly I need - this can be a problem if I don't know right terminology.
Thank you!
 
I've ordered most everything I need to start culturing yeast and bacteria, doing cell counts and storing pitches. I haven't gotten stain and could use a little guidance on what I should be looking for.

Here is the microscope I ordered that should be arriving on Tuesday.

scope.jpg
 
I sold my diving gear - and that was quite some bulk of quite some tech diving stuff, so Meine Frau says no word about me spending on other things now. Why not grab a chance ;)
 
30 years of marriage will do that! :D

Seriously though, what is nuts about having such a great hobby that you can do so many things with?

I'll replace "nuts" with "rabid enthusiasts". I'm one too. I bought an olympus microscope, hemocytometer, stains, and assorted plating equipment a few years ago just for looking at yeast.
 
Yeah we are all yeast bitten ;)
So is there anyone to come down with the shopping list for chem reagents?
:rockin:
 
I haven't gotten stain and could use a little guidance on what I should be looking for.

I bought the violet stain from White Labs. I also used Methylene Blue. I like the violet better, and I've been told it's a more reliable stain for assessing viability, but I don't really know why. If White Labs uses it, it's good enough for me :)

http://www.whitelabs.com/other-products/alkaline-methylene-violet-amv-stain-ma1422

They also have a full test kit, plus tons of equipment you can get directly from them.

http://www.whitelabs.com/other-products/gram-stain-kit-ma1500
 
Thanks passed. I ended up buy a full kit of 6 stains, since I will be using it for my daughter's education as well as my yeast/bacteria.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top