Apparantly I'm a beginner again - how do I mash?

Background - I brewed pretty heavily from about 2007 to 2012. Looking back at my notes, I'm amazed what I knew (and now have forgotten).

I haven't brewed since January, and it was abysmal. Had a stuck mash and didn't hit any numbers, but the beer was alright.

Today I mashed in a bag to prevent what happened in January.

16 lbs of grain + 7 gallons of water at 150 degrees for an hour = 1.01. I tossed it out and didn't bother to sparge.



2 issues that I'm seeing - stuck mashes and now essentially no potential gravity.

Mash
We're talking 4 drops then hitting a brick wall, and that wasn't the first time I've had to resort to bags. Rice hulls or not stirring doesn't do a lick of good. The grain gets under the false bottom and it's game over. I can't get it unstuck - last time I resorted to pulling it all out and tying it up in a t-shirt. The rim is curved up which seems counter intuitive. At the time, I was a poor college student and prolly picked it up on ebay. I attached pics of the setup - what's the solution?

No potential gravity
My grain was about 7 years old. It was stored in the basement and thought I may have issues with taste or a little drop in efficiency, but 1.01? 75% would put 10 gallons at 1.044 and I was hoping for 1.03 , not 1.01 for the first 6 gallons. I was going to add brown sugar to hit 5% for a light ale that would become a hard root beer. I had poor efficiency in January, but ended up with 1.07 for a 5 gallon batch. I'm chalking it up to bad grain and the inability to stir. The grain was tied up in 2 muslin bags. Thoughts?

I started off the day pretty pumped about getting back into brewing. If I can resolve these issues, I'm still looking forward to it

you mentioned some sort of bag...if you had the grains contained in a bag, there should be absolutely no issues with a stuck sparge

where are you in kentucky? ive got my old single vessel BIAB equipment thatg could use a home

m00ps said:

you mentioned some sort of bag...if you had the grains contained in a bag, there should be absolutely no issues with a stuck sparge

where are you in kentucky? ive got my old single vessel BIAB equipment that could use a home

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I'm in Louisville. I don't have sticking when the grain goes in a bag, I just prefer everything to be out in the open and free . Maybe I'm delusional, but i figure getting in there and stirring would give the best results.

I've used cheesecloth and painters' bags in the past without a problem, it's just remembering to purchase and use them can be a pain.

I'd say the inability to stir probably crippled you from the start. I have problems with grains clumping after a full 2 minutes of stirring, so I'm willing to bet there was plenty of grain in the bags that didn't even get wet. Old grain might impart stale, musty flavors, but the sugars and starches don't just vaporize over time.

Also I'm about to part ways with an old braided hose if you want it. Might need a few new hose clamps, but it's done the charm for me for the past 3 years.

Good chance the weight of the grain is forcing the dip tube to the bottom of the cooler. That will cause your stuck sparge. What you need to do is cut the end of that dip tube at a 45° angle. Or, cut a big notch out of it - that's what I did.

wow- only 1.010 after 60 minutes? I'm thinking that either you thermometer is way off on the low side(like 20* off) or the 7 year old grain has lost all it's enzymatic ability. Or maybe, hopefully, your hydrometer reading is way off and things converted better than you thought.
Here's hoping you can get it sorted out.

gicts said:

16 lbs of grain + 7 gallons of water at 150 degrees for an hour = 1.01. I tossed it out and didn't bother to sparge.

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How did you measure the gravity? Hydrometer? What temperature (approx) was the sample that you measured?

Are you sure you milled your grain? Sounds like a stupid question but maybe your problem is in the crush.

specharka said:

I'd say the inability to stir probably crippled you from the start. I have problems with grains clumping after a full 2 minutes of stirring, so I'm willing to bet there was plenty of grain in the bags that didn't even get wet. Old grain might impart stale, musty flavors, but the sugars and starches don't just vaporize over time.

Also I'm about to part ways with an old braided hose if you want it. Might need a few new hose clamps, but it's done the charm for me for the past 3 years.

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Thanks for the offer, there's a lot of generosity on this forum! My initial thought was what you said - sugars don't just disappear. However, I am wondering if the malt enzymes' effectiveness could decrease over time.

passedpawn said:

Good chance the weight of the grain is forcing the dip tube to the bottom of the cooler. That will cause your stuck sparge. What you need to do is cut the end of that dip tube at a 45° angle. Or, cut a big notch out of it - that's what I did.

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You're spot on. In fact, I remember pushing down on the valve to get a few more drops of wort. In reflection, I was just raising the dip tube. I went ahead and cut off about a quarter of an inch, then used a tube flare device I found at a yard sale to make it look like brand new.

JimRausch said:

wow- only 1.010 after 60 minutes? I'm thinking that either you thermometer is way off on the low side(like 20* off) or the 7 year old grain has lost all it's enzymatic ability. Or maybe, hopefully, your hydrometer reading is way off and things converted better than you thought.
Here's hoping you can get it sorted out.

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I actually was hoping that the hydrometer (somehow) was off and tried another but ended up with the same reading.

With that said, I did forget that the temperature of the wort had such a strong effect. It was warm to the touch, but when I went back the next day and tried it again, it was closer to 1.02 (yay).

passedpawn said:

How did you measure the gravity? Hydrometer? What temperature (approx) was the sample that you measured?

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That was a slight error, but the wort and spent grains didn't have the feel or smell that I remember. Nothing was sweet or sticky afterwards.

C-Rider said:

Are you sure you milled your grain? Sounds like a stupid question but maybe your problem is in the crush.

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Actually a really good question. I did, but I've been using a commercial coffee grinder which I realized was one of the components to my stuck mashes. It's too fine! I've used it before with success, but that may have been the start of my demise.

I gave it another go last night. I started off hammering out that goofy lip around the false bottom and re sized the dip tube. Much better fit!!

I went to the box store in hopes of finding fresher grain, but all they had were the 1lb bags, so I just got yeast.

After grinding, I put a handful in the tun only to realize some of the kernels could make it through the bottom. I modified the grinder and am much happier with the grist.

I put the few pounds I ground in a bag to act as a bit of a filter, then left the other grain loose. Felt good to stir again!

Still a low gravity, but far from last time. Instead of 1.02, I got 1.06. I did use an old Pilsner malt instead of the 2 row. Both were bought in April 2011 and not stored properly. Otherwise it was a perfect mash and sparge.

I ended up with 5 gallons of a 1.035 OG ale that's already bubbling. My efficiency appears to be around 35%. I'm going to place an order online and see what fresh grains can do

I also did a partial grain batch afterwards and got 100% efficiency :rockin:

All in all, a good day was had by everyone. Grinding pic was from last week's misery.

I've been having a problem with my own false bottom. 3 out of 3 on slow sparges. Blowing back in the tube seemed to fix it this last time so I'm progressing. I think I'm going to cut some high temp hose and put it around it. I think it slides just enough when stirring to get grains underneath.

Stuck sparge/first runnings is almost always a result of trying to drain too fast and building up a huge pressure difference. When that happens the grains will compact and form a "plug". Try draining REALLY slow (like 20+ minutes to drain) and see if that fixes your problem.