BIAB Myths and Misconceptions

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Seems intuitively right, but note that the guy runs a BIAB supply business. Not exactly an unbiased source.
 
The basic analogy was biab=no sparge, no sparge has bad lauter effeciency. Therefore biab has bad effeciency.

However it's fairly inaccurate.

Especially since it`s quite easy to sparge with BIAB. Just dunk the damn bag in a bucket of water.
 
Been doing BIAB for a few years and getting like 78% eff double crushing at the LHBS and mashing in a 5 gal cooler (I do 2 g batches).
Just started using a blender to turn the grain into flour instead of the double crush. Also switched to a 3 gallon cooler because I was loosing to much heat in the 5er.
Also found I couldn't get all the grain and 2.9 gal of water in the 3er so I began to mash in 2.5 gal and dunk sparge w/the reaming .4 gal.
Eff jumped to like 85%.
 
We really need to put the efficiency non-issue to bed. Who really cares except those number chasers who want some bragging rights?
If you want to make the best beer possible you don't want to sparge and would want efficiency in the 60-70% region. If you want to make the cheapest beer possible then sparge until you've wrung every last % point of usable sugar from your grain.
The difference in quality is vast whereby the difference in cost is <$1 depending on batch size e.g large batch size = big cost difference which is why it is a commercially viable process.

The article above does mention that there are some factual errors in some articles but doesn't actually go anyway towards why these are not even relevant and why you shouldn't be concerned. RAHAHB.
 
I've done more than 90 BIAB brews and I can get 80%+ efficiency but I can get 70% without even trying. I just pull out the bag and let it drain in the bucket that I grind my malt into with the mash paddle wedged in to keep it off the bottom. I'll let it drain for the 15 minutes it takes to bring the rest up to boil and dump it in. I usually do it this way as its worth the extra pound of grain for less hassle. The only time I dip sparge or even squeeze is if I'm brewing something high gravity.

In regards to the article, it is a myth you need a big bag that fills your kettle. You don't. It will work fine as long as the grain is not packed too tightly. I've done 10lbs in a 5 gal strainer bag in my 10gal kettle with the above method and got the exact same efficiency.
 
We really need to put the efficiency non-issue to bed. Who really cares except those number chasers who want some bragging rights?
If you want to make the best beer possible you don't want to sparge and would want efficiency in the 60-70% region. If you want to make the cheapest beer possible then sparge until you've wrung every last % point of usable sugar from your grain.
The difference in quality is vast whereby the difference in cost is <$1 depending on batch size e.g large batch size = big cost difference which is why it is a commercially viable process.

Are you saying you can't make "the best beer possible" if you sparge? Or are you saying that sparging can also make great beer but we who do so are after cheap beer?

I've only sparge 3 times now, it's a bit more of a pain in the ass I agree but my eff is up and I don't think quality is down.

:mug:
 
We really need to put the efficiency non-issue to bed. Who really cares except those number chasers who want some bragging rights?
If you want to make the best beer possible you don't want to sparge and would want efficiency in the 60-70% region. If you want to make the cheapest beer possible then sparge until you've wrung every last % point of usable sugar from your grain.
The difference in quality is vast whereby the difference in cost is <$1 depending on batch size e.g large batch size = big cost difference which is why it is a commercially viable process.

This. I've talked to people who brag about how efficient their mash is but then later in the discussion you find out they are only getting 3 batches of beer from a tank of propane. Propane costs way more than grain does and I'd rather mill an extra lb than drive across town to fill up a tank.
 
This. I've talked to people who brag about how efficient their mash is but then later in the discussion you find out they are only getting 3 batches of beer from a tank of propane. Propane costs way more than grain does and I'd rather mill an extra lb than drive across town to fill up a tank.

I'm confused what does mash eff have to do w/propane use? Good eff or not you still boil for an hour.
 
Why is that?

The best quality wort is from the first runnings

I'm confused what does mash eff have to do w/propane use? Good eff or not you still boil for an hour.

With sparging you are effectively diluting your first runnings so to get back to your required volume you need to boil off the additional liquid.
 
1. &#8220;Because of the simplicity of the process and equipment, BIAB has become a popular means of all-grain brewing for homebrewers new to mashing, living in small confines, pinching pennies, or brewing small batches.&#8221;

Not true...made another two of these 3B / 145 gallon kettle bags just last night for a brewery in CA....they BIAB large batch daily.

People often dispel large batch BIAB that have never tried it. Making statements like, "beyond 5 gal batches, 3V is more appropriate." I believe these statements are from those that have never tried large batch BIAB. A simple means to lift and remove the bag is not that difficult or expensive in practice.

 
The best quality wort is from the first runnings

With sparging you are effectively diluting your first runnings so to get back to your required volume you need to boil off the additional liquid.

This defies all form of logic to me. What do you call the wort from a no sparge batch? Is it all first runnings? Sounds like what you're saying is that, all other things being equal, no sparge produces better beer.

Also what are the variables that constitute quality? We need to be able to measure these variables to see if you're hypothesis is right.
 
wow, thats a big bag you have there......

I routinely sparge to increase batch size, my 20 gallon kettle with SS mesh basket can only no sparge a 12 - 13 gallon batch. I sparge to 15 gallons. (in fermenter). I have tried just a water addition instead of sparging and the sparge does give a few extra points, not many though.

Another little trick I use is to allow the grain to drain some more after the squeeze, this becomes canned wort for starters. If sucking every last bit of juice from those grains makes me cheap...well....Im ok with that
 
just to add, I would suggest that those who do sparge account for the extra water in recipe formulation so the dilution of first runnings is intentional and predictable.
 
1. “Because of the simplicity of the process and equipment, BIAB has become a popular means of all-grain brewing for homebrewers new to mashing, living in small confines, pinching pennies, or brewing small batches

Not true...made another two of these 3B / 145 gallon kettle bags just last night for a brewery in CA....they BIAB large batch daily.

People often dispel large batch BIAB that have never tried it. Making statements like, "beyond 5 gal batches, 3V is more appropriate." I believe these statements are from those that have never tried large batch BIAB. A simple means to lift and remove the bag is not that difficult or expensive in practice.



No matter the method, if it makes consistently good beer close to 100% of the time that is the only percent I am concerned with. Nice to see the pros agree as well.
 
This defies all form of logic to me. What do you call the wort from a no sparge batch? Is it all first runnings? Sounds like what you're saying is that, all other things being equal, no sparge produces better beer.

Also what are the variables that constitute quality? We need to be able to measure these variables to see if you're hypothesis is right.

I'll try and locate the article where a number of leading figures in brewing when asked if they wanted to produce the best quality beer whether they would sparge all said no.


Another little trick I use is to allow the grain to drain some more after the squeeze, this becomes canned wort for starters. If sucking every last bit of juice from those grains makes me cheap...well....Im ok with that


Using the draining wort for starters is a great idea but for regular batches I wouldn't have thought it would be in the 1.040 range.
 
I'll try and locate the article where a number of leading figures in brewing when asked if they wanted to produce the best quality beer whether they would sparge all said no.

Using the draining wort for starters is a great idea but for regular batches I wouldn't have thought it would be in the 1.040 range.

Yes, I'd be very interested in seeing that article!

For the starter, you can always water it down to 1.040.
 
Not true...made another two of these 3B / 145 gallon kettle bags just last night for a brewery in CA....they BIAB large batch daily.

People often dispel large batch BIAB that have never tried it. Making statements like, "beyond 5 gal batches, 3V is more appropriate." I believe these statements are from those that have never tried large batch BIAB. A simple means to lift and remove the bag is not that difficult or expensive in practice.

Now show a picture of how they dump the spent grain from the bag . . .


seriously, I'm having trouble visualizing how this is done.
 
Now show a picture of how they dump the spent grain from the bag . . .
seriously, I'm having trouble visualizing how this is done.

Sorry....no idea how they empty the bag. I would guess with gloves, boots, a shovel and a strong back...I imagine most small brewery work is like farm work ....

This is a 285 lb grain bill....
 
With sparging you are effectively diluting your first runnings so to get back to your required volume you need to boil off the additional liquid.

Not true.

If you use the full volume of batch water for BIAB and drain completely you are leaving a very diluted wort remaining in the grain and since you can drain the grain (more or less) completely you are emulating what sparge brewers do using any mash method.

For example a sparge brewer might collect first runnings of 1.085 and add the second runnings of 1.042. The combined pre-boil gravity might be 1.060 (I'm just throwing numbers out there.)

A full volume BIAB brewer might simply collect 1.060 wort.

Both are leaving a diluted wort in the grain and ending up with the desired boil volume.

Since BIAB brewers can usually crush finer without risk of stuck sparge, they are more likely to get a higher mash efficiency. And since they generally drain more completely, they also usually get a really high brewhouse efficiency. The take-away from this is that saying BIAB is less efficient is complete crap. it can actually be much more efficient if conversion happens as expected in a highly diluted mash.

The main differences between a no-sparge BIAB and other methods that use sparge is that you are mashing at a much higher water:grist ratio than convention calls for, and you are adding a lot of particulate to the Boil Kettle that might otherwise be filtered out.

Those differences might not mean anything to the brewer themselves, and anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that there isn't a noticeable difference in finished beer appearance of flavor between them.

Of course, there are many ways for all kinds of brewers to handle the mash and there are really not too many blanket statements to be made between them. Homebrewers have come up with various tweaks to the various mashing methods to fit their own preferences.
 
Of course, there are many ways for all kinds of brewers to handle the mash and there are really not too many blanket statements to be made between them. Homebrewers have come up with various tweaks to the various mashing methods to fit their own preferences.

Such as recirculating while mashing.
 
I'm confused what does mash eff have to do w/propane use? Good eff or not you still boil for an hour.

Its not really related but everyone I know who brags about their efficiency seems to have an idea that you are wasting money with a crappy 60% eff. I think its dumb to worry about the money spent on grain and not consider the other parts of the process that cost money. If you aren't concerned with money, then an efficiency discussion is just about what tastes better and you never hear anyone saying that a completely sparged out 90% efficiency tastes better.
 
At the end of the day, it's just beer. Who cares? Brew it the way you wanna brew it and if it turns out the way you like, it doesn't matter.

Personally, I chose BIAB at a point where I was about to give up homebrewing, because I couldn't get extract brews to turn out good, and because it didn't require a larger equipment investment. All I needed was a bag as additional equipment and now I make delicious beer. After seeing how well my first BIAB turned out, I've pretty much ruled out ever needing a 3-tier system.

I'm just glad to know that efficiency isn't really going to be a problem for this method.
 
Who really cares except those number chasers who want some bragging rights?


If you want to make the best beer possible you don't want to sparge and would want efficiency in the 60-70% region.

The nonsense-ometer is going off the charts here mate.

Malarkey-meter.jpg
 
The nonsense-ometer is going off the charts here mate.

Malarkey-meter.jpg

if you go by the ratebeer criteria of "best beer" (the strongest beer possible) then it isn't complete malarkey. I guarantee most beers over 8% that aren't padded out with adjuncts were done with no sparge first runnings and terrible efficiency.
 
Ill raise the meter a bit more:
BIAB produces inferior beer. There is simply no way around it
 
I disagree for a variety of reasons. See why here.

Gavin, I really like your posts and I learn much from them. But that link does not explain why someone would want to chase high mash efficiency.

(Consistent efficiency, perhaps, but not high. As in, like, higher than in the 70-80% range.)
 
if you go by the ratebeer criteria of "best beer" (the strongest beer possible) then it isn't complete malarkey. I guarantee most beers over 8% that aren't padded out with adjuncts were done with no sparge first runnings and terrible efficiency.

Just so long as your guaranteeing it then.
 
Wow that Rex guy sure knows how to stir @#$@ up doesn't he? Must be good for business.

Unfortunately his claims of BIAB being vastly superior is as disingenuous as those who claim you can only get 60% efficiency.

BIAB is just another form of AG. I currently use a hybrid but did a full BIAB 3 gallon batch once.. I think I hit mid 70s with that, and the hybrid bag in the cooler batch sparge I'm usually in the low 80s.. good enough for me. Wort looks the same either way..

Fred
 
Back
Top