Disappearing dry hop flavour - HELP!

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beerkench

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I've been brewing all grain for 2 years and I'm pulling my hair out over anything I do that's dry hopped completely losing flavour and transforming from a top brew to a flavourless, bitter brew within days.

Before you jump all over me with the obvious answers please read my process so I can convince you that it just can't be oxidation.

Google IPA flavour loss and most of the results talk about hop oxidation, infection or water issues. I'm aware of all these problems and have really tried to get anal on improving my techniques to avoid all these problems but nevertheless the hoppier ales I produce go from fantastic to boring within a short period. I'm aware also that hops will fade but I'm talking days here and not months.

I brew 6 gallons and generally get around 30 IBUS from the boil for a pale ale and then late hop with around 3.5 oz and then dry hop with another 3oz or so.
Maybe it's too little as I see now that people are going for 1oz dry hop a gallon.

To avoid oxidation my technique is to dry hop with a few points left and as I have one of those plastic Speidel vessels, I can cap it as they hold a fair bit of pressure. I then cold crash after 5-7 days and then transfer to my purged keg out from the spigot and into the out poppet on the keg. To be extra sure I even connect the 'gas out' to the top of the vessel so that the Co2 coming out of the keg is flooding the headspace as the vessel is being emptied.

I've considered infection but everything I do that is lightly hopped or dark (have a great Saison on tap) just gets better and better with age.

One thing I've noticed so I'm wondering if this is where the problem lies, is that
the first few pints from the keg are really fantastic to drink. They're like pure tropical juice! But the first few pints are also really cloudy and have lots of hop bits in them, then as the beer clears so goes the flavour. So I'm wondring if I'm not getting full extraction from my dry hopping and that the oils are locked into the hops bits that I'm tasting with the first pints. It's like my beer isn't homogenized.
I know that breweries agitate the hops by using Co2 or pumps but they can drop the yeast first so I'm wondering how to match this technique on a home brew level.
Another thing I'm going to try is Vinnie's method of chilling the beer to around 10 c to let some of the yeast fall out and the dry hop. This could help with extraction as I'm wondering if the flocculating yeast is taking the oils with it.

One more thing that I notice I do that could be wrong is that I usually take my hops from the freezer and dry hop almost directly so it could be that the frozen hops are sinking straight away and piling up on top of each other.
I'm going to try leaving the hops out for a while (in the vacuum pack) first and see if this makes a difference.

Big thanks in advance for all tips and advice.
 
you should try dry hopping in the keg. I use panty hose, an old SS tap and 1 oz per gallon. I sugar prime the keg with about .5 oz sugar per gallon and let it sit at room temp for 5 - 7 days. Also, the biggest improvement I got with DH is I started adding 1 tsp calcium chloride, 1 tsp gypsum to the water pre-boil and 2% acid malt to the grain bill. I don't know what my water profile is (or yours for that matter) so you may want to investigate whether it would be detrimental to add these things to your water. But definately do the DH in the keg....oh, and yes, the hops stay in the panty hose (sanitized of course) for the life of the keg.
 
Thanks. I think keg hopping is the way forward so I'm going to give it a go.
 
are those amounts for IPAs? I think you just need more hops honestly. I usually also do 2oz in the keg which helps. Let the keg sit for a few days at room temp so the hops actually get into the beer before cooling. But before they get to the keg, my IPAs see a pound or more of hops
 
are those amounts for IPAs? I think you just need more hops honestly. I usually also do 2oz in the keg which helps. Let the keg sit for a few days at room temp so the hops actually get into the beer before cooling. But before they get to the keg, my IPAs see a pound or more of hops

So you do a pound before and then 2 oz after kegging? Are you doing 5 gallons?
That's a lot! I need to do some catching up.
 
yeah I usually keg my IPAs on 2oz of whole hops and leave them in there for the entire life of the keg. So far, I havent had any grassy vegetal flavors come through

I do large flameout hopstands for my IPAs. IME it gets me the best hop character that at times can be more pungent than anything i can buy. The bitterness is also kept low enough that IPA haters will happily drink one.

Here's the hop bill from my last IPA and then the black IPA im doing tomorrow. Theyre expensive to make, but its totally worth it being able to pour a pint of it after a days work.

@60min: 1 oz magnum
@15min: 1 oz Belma / 1 oz exp7270
@0min: 2 oz blema / 1 oz exp7270 / 2 oz huell melon / 2 oz pacific gem
*~45min hopstand before cooling*
@~180F: 0.5 oz belma / 2 oz citra / 1.5 oz huell melon 1 oz pacific gem
@dry: 0.5 oz belma / 0.5 oz huell melon / 1 oz citra
@dry 2: 2 oz exp7270
@keg: 2 oz citra

@60min: 1 oz summit
@10min: 1 oz simcoe / 1 oz mosaic
@0min: 2 oz simcoe / 2 oz mosaic / 2 oz chinook
*hopstand for ~45min before cooling*
@~180F: 1 oz simcoe / 1 oz mosaic / 1 oz chinook / 2 oz comet
@dry: 1 oz simcoe / 1 oz chinook
@dry2: 2 oz comet
@keg: 1 oz simcoe / 1 oz chinook
 
yeah I usually keg my IPAs on 2oz of whole hops and leave them in there for the entire life of the keg. So far, I havent had any grassy vegetal flavors come through

I do large flameout hopstands for my IPAs. IME it gets me the best hop character that at times can be more pungent than anything i can buy. The bitterness is also kept low enough that IPA haters will happily drink one.

Here's the hop bill from my last IPA and then the black IPA im doing tomorrow. Theyre expensive to make, but its totally worth it being able to pour a pint of it after a days work.

@60min: 1 oz magnum
@15min: 1 oz Belma / 1 oz exp7270
@0min: 2 oz blema / 1 oz exp7270 / 2 oz huell melon / 2 oz pacific gem
*~45min hopstand before cooling*
@~180F: 0.5 oz belma / 2 oz citra / 1.5 oz huell melon 1 oz pacific gem
@dry: 0.5 oz belma / 0.5 oz huell melon / 1 oz citra
@dry 2: 2 oz exp7270
@keg: 2 oz citra

@60min: 1 oz summit
@10min: 1 oz simcoe / 1 oz mosaic
@0min: 2 oz simcoe / 2 oz mosaic / 2 oz chinook
*hopstand for ~45min before cooling*
@~180F: 1 oz simcoe / 1 oz mosaic / 1 oz chinook / 2 oz comet
@dry: 1 oz simcoe / 1 oz chinook
@dry2: 2 oz comet
@keg: 1 oz simcoe / 1 oz chinook

Are you using some kind of hop sock or a shortened dip tube?
 
the hoppier ales I produce go from fantastic to boring within a short period... I'm talking days here and not months.

the first few pints from the keg are really fantastic to drink. They're like pure tropical juice! But the first few pints are also really cloudy and have lots of hop bits in them, then as the beer clears so goes the flavour.

the flocculating yeast is taking the oils with it.

IMO, you've explained your problem in the OP.

If your beer is clear without excess yeast then there will be nothing for those oils to stick to.

Also, I like keg hopping and leaving in hops for duration of keg (keg, dry hop room temp 5 days, into kegerator).

And, I don't need anywhere near a pound of hops to get good hop character out of my IPAs (or APAs for that matter), but hop variety will play a part in this for sure. I get up to maybe 8 oz per 5 gallons, max.
 
when I add hops to the keg, I tie a piece of unflavored dental floss around the keg handle outside the keg and tie the other around a hop muslin bag weighed with a few marbles. You just need to get the length right so it stays around mid-keg. The lid can still seal with the dental floss sticking out
 
So you do a pound before and then 2 oz after kegging? Are you doing 5 gallons?

That's a lot! I need to do some catching up.


You'll find that m00ps uses far more hops in his recipes than pretty much anyone else. It obviously works, but don't feel as though you *need* to use such amounts to get good results. Look into other areas of your process and you may find a way to increase hop presence without slamming your beer with mondo amounts of whirlpool/hopstand hops.
 
I drop hop with pellets directly into the keg and let it sit at room temp for a few days, then shake to drop them down to the bottom. I use a clear beer draught system (Google it) to draw from the top of the keg.. No clogged drip tube worries. That thing is magic

Using that method the flavour holds on well.
 
I drop hop with pellets directly into the keg and let it sit at room temp for a few days, then shake to drop them down to the bottom. I use a clear beer draught system (Google it) to draw from the top of the keg.. No clogged drip tube worries. That thing is magic

Using that method the flavour holds on well.


Actually heard about those on the Brewing Network. I can imagine that the flavour will get better towards the end instead of worse right?


Sent from hell
using Home Brew
 
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