Mash Thickness

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Walfy10

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I was hoping someone could explain in more depth why at a thinner mash with water to grist ratio say 2.0 qt/lb you may notice a higher efficiency but at a thicker mash at 1.25qt/lb your efficiency drops but you get a more fermentable wort.
 
I was hoping someone could explain in more depth why at a thinner mash with water to grist ratio say 2.0 qt/lb you may notice a higher efficiency but at a thicker mash at 1.25qt/lb your efficiency drops but you get a more fermentable wort.

Thicker mashes don't provide higher fermentability:Thinner mashes provide higher efficiency by increasing the saccharification (conversion of starch to sugar) rate, so you get more sugar in less time. This can be overcome for thick mashes by mashing longer. Thick mashes convert slower because the starch molecules are at a high concentration in solution and that interferes with the enzymes being able to get to the specific bonds in the starch that they can cleave (also referred to as substrate inhibition.) Thinner mashes make the starch bond locations more accessible to the enzymes.

Edit: They only look like identical links. They link to different pages with similar information.

Brew on :mug:
 
Because the enzymes can't get to the starches as easily. Loosen it up and they can.

Thick mashes make for LESS fermentable wort in my experience.
 
Fermentability is a function of recipe and mash temperatures.

Efficiency is subject to different factors. (temperature is a factor but has a very broad range of efficacy).

There is no correlation between efficiency and high fermentability under correct mashing parameters.

Of course, go to the upper/lower extremes and you will have poor efficiency and a wort with poor fermentability.

All else being equal (including pH) thinner mashes will give higher efficiencies.
 
This is why, if you are having trouble getting a thick mash to convert at a given pH and temperature, you can hasten conversion by adding water and thinning the mash.
 
I have always mashed at approx. 2 quarts per pound or a little higher, but always wondered why the conventional wisdom (e.g. BeerSmith) uses a lower 1.25 - 1.5 quarts per pound. I never noticed any adverse effects from using more strike/mash water. If, indeed, more water = greater mash efficiency, I really wonder why people consistently use a lower ratio.
 
I have always mashed at approx. 2 quarts per pound or a little higher, but always wondered why the conventional wisdom (e.g. BeerSmith) uses a lower 1.25 - 1.5 quarts per pound. I never noticed any adverse effects from using more strike/mash water. If, indeed, more water = greater mash efficiency, I really wonder why people consistently use a lower ratio.

I suppose it's to do with another variable. Runoff ratio. Trying to get the volume of first runnings and second runnings in a batch sparge to be close to a 1:1 ratio as this has been shown to give the best efficiency numbers for folks who batch sparge. See here if you want to explore some more.


This is taken from Braukaiser's informative writing on this topic.

Batch_sparging_run_off_ratio.gif


I go the other route. Full volume mashing. No sparge.
 
Thanks Gavin. I may start going full volume mash as well and just add 10% more grain to the recipe to compensate. It will definitely cut the brew day down a bit by eliminating sparging altogether. Now what do I do with my HLT? Maybe I can convert it back to an Igloo water cooler my removing the hardware and putting the original cheap plastic tap back on it. Wow, what a great idea; a water cooler/dispenser!
 
Thanks Gavin. I may start going full volume mash as well and just add 10% more grain to the recipe to compensate. It will definitely cut the brew day down a bit by eliminating sparging altogether. Now what do I do with my HLT? Maybe I can convert it back to an Igloo water cooler my removing the hardware and putting the original cheap plastic tap back on it. Wow, what a great idea; a water cooler/dispenser!

LOL. Water cooler, how novel.


You could use your HLT to prepare water for step infusions to reach full volume at mash-out.

I've been doing this or a combo of infusions/decoctions/direct heating the mash of late with my BIAB setup and a second small pot (my HLT) on my stove.

Decoction Setup.jpg

I don't need extra grain owing to the higher lautering efficiency with BIAB full volume mashes over full-volume mashes wher one cannot drain as much of the trapped sweet-wort. With a conventional MT adding some extra grain to anticipate a lower lautering efficiency is a good idea for sure.
 
I have always mashed at approx. 2 quarts per pound or a little higher, but always wondered why the conventional wisdom (e.g. BeerSmith) uses a lower 1.25 - 1.5 quarts per pound. I never noticed any adverse effects from using more strike/mash water. If, indeed, more water = greater mash efficiency, I really wonder why people consistently use a lower ratio.
For every gallon of mash water used, that's one less gallon available to sparge with. So if you can use less mash water, and mash for a little longer to get the same conversion as a thin mash would, then you'll end up with better efficiency because you have more water to sparge with.
 
For every gallon of mash water used, that's one less gallon available to sparge with. So if you can use less mash water, and mash for a little longer to get the same conversion as a thin mash would, then you'll end up with better efficiency because you have more water to sparge with.

The above advice is appropriate only for fly sparging.

For batch sparging, you want to adjust strike volume so that you have approximately equal initial and sparge run-offs, as that will maximize the efficiency (ref: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Batch_Sparging_Analysis.) But, having exactly equal run-off volumes is not critical, so you can adjust some to give a thinner mash if you want to.

Brew on :mug:
 
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