Too much calcium and/or sulfate, harsh bitterness?

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tomaso

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I've brewed a Bells two hearted IPA clone for the third time (love this beer) and this was the first time I've made water adjustments.

I added 2ml of lactic acid for an est mash ph of 5,47 and 4g of Gypsum to the effect of getting 110ppm calcium and 165ppm sulfate; I also added another 1,4ml lactic acid and 2,5g of Gypsum to my 6L of top up water in the end.

The result is a beer that is nice, crisp and clean but has a harsh kind of bitterness to it that is kind of unpleasant. Is that to be expected with the amount of minerals that I added to it (especially the ones to the top up water)???

(the previous two versions didn't have that unpleasant bitterness)

Thx for your help
 
You ended up with 165 ppm of sulfate, including the last addition after the boil? Or was it in addition to?

I find more than about 150 ppm of sulfate is a bit too much for me in most beers, although I have one recipe that I like that is over 250 ppm.

Tomorrow, I'm brewing and using 135 ppm of sulfate, which is what I really like for most pale ales.

I've seen Randy Mosher's pale ale water suggestion that has 300 ppm, and some people do like that dry bitterness, but I haven't liked it myself.
 
The result is a beer that is nice, crisp and clean but has a harsh kind of bitterness to it that is kind of unpleasant. Is that to be expected with the amount of minerals that I added to it (especially the ones to the top up water)???

(the previous two versions didn't have that unpleasant bitterness)

The evidence does point to the sulfate addition but isn't quite proof. When going to enhanced sulfate levels I always recommend that people increase incrementally as opposed to going to straight to what they think they will ultimately want.
 
You ended up with 165 ppm of sulfate, including the last addition after the boil? Or was it in addition to?

I find more than about 150 ppm of sulfate is a bit too much for me in most beers, although I have one recipe that I like that is over 250 ppm.

Tomorrow, I'm brewing and using 135 ppm of sulfate, which is what I really like for most pale ales.

I've seen Randy Mosher's pale ale water suggestion that has 300 ppm, and some people do like that dry bitterness, but I haven't liked it myself.

No, those 165 don't include the last addition after the boil, i.e. the addition to the top up water, so even more sulfate :)

The evidence does point to the sulfate addition but isn't quite proof. When going to enhanced sulfate levels I always recommend that people increase incrementally as opposed to going to straight to what they think they will ultimately want.

What else could it be? maybe the high Calcium level?
Yes, it seems I'm working my way backwards from what is too much to where it's right :)
 
No, those 165 don't include the last addition after the boil, i.e. the addition to the top up water, so even more sulfate :)



What else could it be? maybe the high Calcium level?
Yes, it seems I'm working my way backwards from what is too much to where it's right :)

Can you check on a spreadsheet and see what the actual ppm of the sulfate was? I have a very strong feeling that is the cause.
 
Another cause can be a high percentage of your original volume boiling off in the kettle. It appears the typical boil off percentage is on the order of 15 to 25 percent. I just became aware of some brewers who brew small batches and end up boiling too much away. For example, I typically brew 5.5 gal batches and start with 6.5 to 7.5 gal of wort. At my typical 1 gal/hr boil off rate, that puts me at in that range I mentioned. But if I brewed a 2 gal batch and had the same boil off rate, the boil off percentage would jump to the 30 to 50 percent range. That would produce a significant concentration of the wort's original ionic content and the ending result could be unexpected.

That mash pH (5.47) is slightly higher than I target for pale ales and it could create some harshness from the hop charge. I don't think the 165 ppm sulfate is excessive, but I like a dry finish. Each brewer has their own preferences and that is the beauty of homebrewing. Find you muse.
 
Can you check on a spreadsheet and see what the actual ppm of the sulfate was? I have a very strong feeling that is the cause.

Not sure what you mean... the numbers I gave in my post are from the EZ water spread sheet I used for this brew; I don't know how much sulfate the extra 2,5g gypsum added..... could you clarify pls.

Thanks!
 
That mash pH (5.47) is slightly higher than I target for pale ales and it could create some harshness from the hop charge. I don't think the 165 ppm sulfate is excessive, but I like a dry finish. Each brewer has their own preferences and that is the beauty of homebrewing. Find you muse.

The first two versions I brewed of this beer had no water additions, i.e. an even higher ph and the harsh bitterness wasn't there.
The boil of rate is a normal 20%

Thanks
 
Not sure what you mean... the numbers I gave in my post are from the EZ water spread sheet I used for this brew; I don't know how much sulfate the extra 2,5g gypsum added..... could you clarify pls.

Thanks!

I just was wondering what the sulfate was in ppm in the finished batch, not just the mash. I don't use EZ water (it's been highly inaccurate for me) so I'm not sure if you're talking about the ppm in the mash or the total ppm of sulfate in the finished beer.
 
The 165ppm refer to the sulfate in the mash and I don't know how to calculate the other 2,5g of Gypsum that I added to the top up water... but If I add them to the original 4g of Gypsum in the mash (in the spreadsheet that is, i.e. as if I'd added 6,5g to the mash) it shows 269ppm of sulfate...
 
The 165ppm refer to the sulfate in the mash and I don't know how to calculate the other 2,5g of Gypsum that I added to the top up water... but If I add them to the original 4g of Gypsum in the mash (in the spreadsheet that is, i.e. as if I'd added 6,5g to the mash) it shows 269ppm of sulfate...

Well, if indeed there is 269 ppm of sulfate in the beer, that would explain the strong bitterness and a dryness in the swallow. Some people use that amount of sulfate routinely, but I find it a bit harsh.
 
OK, thanks. Good to know. Next time I'll use much less.
I'll just drink that batch with mixing a bit of another beer into it...
 
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