Only late hop additions.

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joshesmusica

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Anybody experimenting with this in pale ales or IPAs (or any other styles I suppose)? I just brewed up a pale ale that got all my ibus 10 mins and later. I've read of some people doing it, but just wondering how the results are for others.
 
My last brew was an apa that had all 10 or later except that 1 oz warrior at 60 into 10 gallons . Had plenty of bitterness. Though I'm sure my slow chill time contributed.
I could see it working with enough hops in some cases. Not so sure in a iipa. If my chill time had been shorter, could have been a different story.
I would suspect a lot of the outcome would depend on hop selection
Planning my next brew with a 30 min addition of chinnok as my bittering addition
I'll report back if I remember
 
I have done this in a black IPA that turned out great. 80 IBUs with all additions under 5 minutes. It definitely makes for a different type of bitterness, it doesnt have the same *stiff* bitterness as most IPAs. The flavor and aroma is out of this world though. I enjoy less bitter IPAs so it works for me.
 
What was the batch size? One of the limiting factors would seem to be the amount of hops needed to impart bitterness at that stage. My wallet would cry at $20-$50 worth of hops having to be used in a pale ale.
 
What was the batch size? One of the limiting factors would seem to be the amount of hops needed to impart bitterness at that stage. My wallet would cry at $20-$50 worth of hops having to be used in a pale ale.

Find a good friend who has hops growing on their property but doesnt brew. I lucked out that a friend of my brew club's president has cascade hops growing on their property. I managed to pick 21ish ounces of these whole cone hops and used them at the 3 minute mark in the boil.
 
I do all my IPAs with 1 oz of bittering at 60min, maybe 1-2 more at 10min, then at least 8oz into a hopstand. I know what Ark was talking about with the lack of stiff bitterness. You get a giant blast of hop flavor, and its just unexpectedly ends softly on the palette so its hard not to drink it like gatorade. Id never do an IPA any other way after starting this
 
I'm mainly wondering if people are just forgoing the bittering additions altogether, and what their experience with that is. Here's my most recent recipe, although it's in the fermenter now, so I can't comment on it for a few weeks:

Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l
Bottling Volume: 24.17 l
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 21.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 41.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.30 kg Vienna Malt (8.0 EBC) Grain 1 23.0 %
1.00 kg Munich (BestMälz) (15.0 EBC) Grain 2 17.7 %
0.40 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (120.0 EBC) Grain 3 7.1 %
0.36 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (30.0 EBC) Grain 4 6.4 %
0.20 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 5 3.5 %
0.20 kg Munich Dark (BestMälz) (25.0 EBC) Grain 6 3.5 %
50.00 g Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 12.0 IBUs
50.00 g Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 6.6 IBUs
30.00 g Mandarina Bavaria [8.30 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 9 4.9 IBUs
2.20 kg DME Golden Light (Briess) [Boil for 1 mi Dry Extract 10 38.9 %
40.00 g Cascade [6.70 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 25.0 Hop 11 9.2 IBUs
30.00 g Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 12 8.7 IBUs
30.00 g Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 0.0 mins) Spice 13 -
1.0 pkg British Ale Yeast (Mangrove Jack's #M07) Yeast 14 -
40.00 g Cascade [6.70 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
30.00 g Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
 
I'm mainly wondering if people are just forgoing the bittering additions altogether, and what their experience with that is. Here's my most recent recipe, although it's in the fermenter now, so I can't comment on it for a few weeks:

Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l
Bottling Volume: 24.17 l
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 21.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 41.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.30 kg Vienna Malt (8.0 EBC) Grain 1 23.0 %
1.00 kg Munich (BestMälz) (15.0 EBC) Grain 2 17.7 %
0.40 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (120.0 EBC) Grain 3 7.1 %
0.36 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (30.0 EBC) Grain 4 6.4 %
0.20 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 5 3.5 %
0.20 kg Munich Dark (BestMälz) (25.0 EBC) Grain 6 3.5 %
50.00 g Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 12.0 IBUs
50.00 g Cascade [6.70 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 6.6 IBUs
30.00 g Mandarina Bavaria [8.30 %] - Boil 5.0 mi Hop 9 4.9 IBUs
2.20 kg DME Golden Light (Briess) [Boil for 1 mi Dry Extract 10 38.9 %
40.00 g Cascade [6.70 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 25.0 Hop 11 9.2 IBUs
30.00 g Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Steep/Whirl Hop 12 8.7 IBUs
30.00 g Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 0.0 mins) Spice 13 -
1.0 pkg British Ale Yeast (Mangrove Jack's #M07) Yeast 14 -
40.00 g Cascade [6.70 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
30.00 g Mandarina Bavaria [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

That should come out pretty damn good. Like I mentioned though earilier, it will end up tasting less bitter than a "normal" hop schedule'd beer. I'm going to retry the same hop schedule with all hops under 5 minutes as an all citra white IPA to see what happens in a very pale beer.
 
For APAs and IPAs, I generally do a 60 minute addition to about my desired IBUs, and then everything else as a 40 minute hop stand. Works pretty well to my tastes.
 
I still do a small FWH charge to help prevent boil-overs, but everything else is either after the 15 minute mark or in a no-chill cube. I use massive amounts of hops $$$-wise, but am kinda ok with that.
 
One of my fellow brew club members and I did a collaboration of 10 gallons of session IPA, using a pound of hops at flameout. Those were the only hops used.

We did do a 30 minute hop whirlpool before chilling.

Came out with massive flavor and aroma, and we definitely got some bitterness.


Code:
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 11.94 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.44 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal   
Bottling Volume: 11.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.037 SG
Estimated Color: 4.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 0.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
11.00 gal             Light colored and hoppy                  Water         1        -             
12.75 lb              Pale 2-Row (1.8 SRM)                     Grain         2        82.3 %        
2.00 lb               Munich - Light 10L (10.0 SRM)            Grain         3        12.9 %        
0.75 lb               Caramel / Crystal 15L (15.0 SRM)         Grain         4        4.8 %         
5.29 oz               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min         Hop           7        0.0 IBUs      
5.29 oz               Columbus [15.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min        Hop           8        0.0 IBUs      
5.29 oz               Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min          Hop           9        0.0 IBUs      
3.4 pkg               German Ale/ Kolsch Yeast WLP029 (White  Yeast         10       -
 
I've gravitated to all late addition hops, and then resorted to a bittering addition FWH so I could move even closer to end of boil.......I spend more on hops than on malt......but I don't care as my object is "good beer". My typical beer has virtually all the hops in the 5-10 minute range and whirlpool. I'm currently drinking (as I write) a beer that has 1.25 ounces of hops PER GALLON!! Summit at 60, and Willamette, Mosaic, and Motueka at 5, and Mosaic Whirlpool.........The result is awesome!! Mosaic is the dominant hop, with Willamette for spice, and a touch of Motueka to broaden the "fruit spectrum"....... About 30% of the total hops is Mosaic in whirlpool at 160.
I'm crying crocodile tears as I near the end of my Mosaic Delight............Mosaic is "unobtanium" in any kind of quantity at the moment......... I'm trying to decide what combo will give me more or less the same thing......... Mosaic is my current love!!


H.W.
 
One of my fellow brew club members and I did a collaboration of 10 gallons of session IPA, using a pound of hops at flameout. Those were the only hops used.

We did do a 30 minute hop whirlpool before chilling.

Came out with massive flavor and aroma, and we definitely got some bitterness.


Code:
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 11.94 gal
Post Boil Volume: 11.44 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal   
Bottling Volume: 11.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.037 SG
Estimated Color: 4.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 0.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
11.00 gal             Light colored and hoppy                  Water         1        -             
12.75 lb              Pale 2-Row (1.8 SRM)                     Grain         2        82.3 %        
2.00 lb               Munich - Light 10L (10.0 SRM)            Grain         3        12.9 %        
0.75 lb               Caramel / Crystal 15L (15.0 SRM)         Grain         4        4.8 %         
5.29 oz               Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min         Hop           7        0.0 IBUs      
5.29 oz               Columbus [15.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min        Hop           8        0.0 IBUs      
5.29 oz               Simcoe [12.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min          Hop           9        0.0 IBUs      
3.4 pkg               German Ale/ Kolsch Yeast WLP029 (White  Yeast         10       -

now that is really interesting with only hopstand! how did the beer come out overall though? was it just as good as with a normal hopping schedule, was it better, was it worse?
 
I've gravitated to all late addition hops, and then resorted to a bittering addition FWH so I could move even closer to end of boil.......I spend more on hops than on malt......but I don't care as my object is "good beer". My typical beer has virtually all the hops in the 5-10 minute range and whirlpool. I'm currently drinking (as I write) a beer that has 1.25 ounces of hops PER GALLON!! Summit at 60, and Willamette, Mosaic, and Motueka at 5, and Mosaic Whirlpool.........The result is awesome!! Mosaic is the dominant hop, with Willamette for spice, and a touch of Motueka to broaden the "fruit spectrum"....... About 30% of the total hops is Mosaic in whirlpool at 160.
I'm crying crocodile tears as I near the end of my Mosaic Delight............Mosaic is "unobtanium" in any kind of quantity at the moment......... I'm trying to decide what combo will give me more or less the same thing......... Mosaic is my current love!!


H.W.

Haha, don't go searching out some of the other recent IPA topics then...I posted a regular and black IPA recipe that both use about 3 oz per gallon. Regular IPA is still fermenting but dear lord that black IPA is good. I feel like I need to brush my teeth after taking a sip to get rid of the hop resin.

I get all my hops at farmhouse. They have 4oz packs which are priced $4-6, even for stuff like Mosaic. I usually buy 3 4oz packs and use those in an IPA along with a bittering hop and maybe an ounce or two of some staple like citra or simcoe. I'd check them out if you are constantly spending so much on hops
 
Haha, don't go searching out some of the other recent IPA topics then...I posted a regular and black IPA recipe that both use about 3 oz per gallon. Regular IPA is still fermenting but dear lord that black IPA is good. I feel like I need to brush my teeth after taking a sip to get rid of the hop resin.

I get all my hops at farmhouse. They have 4oz packs which are priced $4-6, even for stuff like Mosaic. I usually buy 3 4oz packs and use those in an IPA along with a bittering hop and maybe an ounce or two of some staple like citra or simcoe. I'd check them out if you are constantly spending so much on hops


I buy most of my hops from Yakima Valley Hops..... I never buy less than half a pound. Prices are decent. 3 ounces per gallon is pretty extreme......... I've hopped as much as 2, but never 3...... it just doesn't seem necessary. Most of my beers are IPAs....... IBUs in the 50's........ I'm not into the extreme "American IPAs" with IBUs in or near the triple digits.

H.W.
 
Im pretty sure even my IPAs where Im using a pound or more dont have anywhere close to 100 IBUs. I only do like 1 or 2 ounces before flameout. The rest is in a hopstand or dry. Like my mom can drink my IPAs and she doesnt ever like beer. She certainly cant stomach any commercial IPA or dark stuff. Off the top of my head, I'd guess they dont go above 60IBUs. Its hard to guess how much bitterness actually comes from letting hops sit at like 200F for an hour

But Im seeing this extreme emphasis on late hopping as a shift in the IPA mentality. It doesnt seem like too many commercial breweries are doing it yet so its a cool time to be a homebrewer
 
Im pretty sure even my IPAs where Im using a pound or more dont have anywhere close to 100 IBUs. I only do like 1 or 2 ounces before flameout. The rest is in a hopstand or dry. Like my mom can drink my IPAs and she doesnt ever like beer. She certainly cant stomach any commercial IPA or dark stuff. Off the top of my head, I'd guess they dont go above 60IBUs. Its hard to guess how much bitterness actually comes from letting hops sit at like 200F for an hour

But Im seeing this extreme emphasis on late hopping as a shift in the IPA mentality. It doesnt seem like too many commercial breweries are doing it yet so its a cool time to be a homebrewer

It makes for expensive beer............. You could easily end up with several hundred dollars in hops with a heavily hopped commercial brew.......... The problem is how much can you sell a glass or a keg of beer for?? If your beer costs you 25% more to produce, you either make that much less, or try to sell it for 25% more than the other guy........ Simple economics. You and I don't have those concerns......... I have around $3.50 in grain in a 3 gallon batch including specialty grains... and I may have as much as $4 or even more in hops.......That's trivial to me. If I were a microbrewer, I would have a ton of overhead, rent, heat, labor, and countless other expenses....... You gotta payh the bills AND make a living.


H.W.
 
I've done some beers with only whirlpooling, and some with hopbursting from 15 or 20 minutes or so. The only WP were nice, but the hop presence faded pretty quickly. With my usual process - smaller additions from 30 or 20 finishing with a large WP, i feel the hop flavors last a bit longer, as the boiled hops linger a bit longer than the massive WP flavors
 
now that is really interesting with only hopstand! how did the beer come out overall though? was it just as good as with a normal hopping schedule, was it better, was it worse?

It's tough to say, since I don't brew 1.037 hoppy beers often.

But it definitely had strong aroma, strong hop flavor, and it picked up a reasonable amount of bitterness given the OG and malt bill, so we were very pleased with it.
 
It's tough to say, since I don't brew 1.037 hoppy beers often.

But it definitely had strong aroma, strong hop flavor, and it picked up a reasonable amount of bitterness given the OG and malt bill, so we were very pleased with it.

oh yeah, haha. just now looked over the recipe better. would be interested in seeing what happens with a typical sized beer or larger. guess i'll have to test it out at some point. did you not get any ibus from the hopstand? or is that just put in wrong into the recipe?
 
! ! ! YES ! ! ! !

It took me a lot of brewing and drinking (i'm a martyr) to figure out that I don't even like the "bittering" aspect of an IPA. God i hated that sandpaper texture of my first few attempts.

For bittering I'll use at MOST 0.25 oz FWH of some old stale high alphas. I just made a Vienna smash that had ZERO bittering charge bc my hops are 10%AA and i figured 3.5 oz late addition would give enough flavor without overpowering the malt.

I'm still on the fence about additions in the 20-10 min range... i usually just throw in half at flameout (212*) and the other half when it's cooled down some (160* give or take). I no longer subscribe to the whole "bittering, flavor, aroma" claptrap. It's useful at first, but once you wrap your head around the concepts of temperature and time affecting alpha acids and volatile odorants, it becomes less useful.

-----

Economically, homebrewers can afford to throw in a few more ounces whereas industrial brewers can't. Just plan ahead and buy in bulk, and make something you like. I don't see that as the economic issue.

What I'm figuring out these days is how much to dry-hop. That's an easy way to waste a lot of money on fragile, short-lived volatile odorants. Furthermore it soaks up a crap-ton of beer like a sponge. If those "aroma" flavors can be extracted during a 150* soak in a sealed fermenter, I'll gladly throw a few more oz in at that point (pre-pitch) and never dry-hop again.
 
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