Relay Chatter

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I would be expect any relay coil to have enough pull on the contacts that you can use it in any position. If it is flat, gravity helps pull.on the contacts, works fine. If you rotate it 90 degrees and chatters, as in click - click - click - click - click. How often does it click? Once a second, faster than you can count.

The reasons I can think.of:

You are not applying the correct voltage. Check the rating on the relay, measure the voltage you apply. Verify flavor of voltage too, as in AC or DC.

It is defective and should be replaced.

It is a piece of junk and should be replaced.

Personally, I would not change the orientation to fix it.
 
I would be expect any relay coil to have enough pull on the contacts that you can use it in any position. If it is flat, gravity helps pull.on the contacts, works fine. If you rotate it 90 degrees and chatters, as in click - click - click - click - click. How often does it click? Once a second, faster than you can count.

The reasons I can think.of:

You are not applying the correct voltage. Check the rating on the relay, measure the voltage you apply. Verify flavor of voltage too, as in AC or DC.

It is defective and should be replaced.

It is a piece of junk and should be replaced.

Personally, I would not change the orientation to fix it.

Thanks, I'll check the voltage but it should be fine. This is the 2nd time I'm using it. The first time, I didn't have my box mounted and it worked fine. This time, when I switched on the relay it would buzz, sometimes not move, sometimes consistently chatter. Finally, after about the 10th time or so, it worked.
 
What's the relay model # (or link to ordering page), and what voltage and current is it switching?

Brew on :mug:
 

Relay is NTE R04-11A30-120. Found the spec sheet for that relay here: http://www.nteinc.com/relay_web/pdf/R04.pdf. Nothing in the spec sheet on mounting restrictions. As long as you are controlling the coil with 120V, and not trying to switch more than 30A, I don't see why you should have any problems.

How are you using this relay? Do you have a panel wiring diagram, and/or any photos of the control box interior?

Brew on :mug:
 
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That coil should have more than enough pulling power such that orientation or gravity is not a factor. You should be able to turn it upside down and it will work fine.

If you verified the stamp on the device and it is supposed to be 120 VAC coil, we are looking at some esoteric trouble shooting. Or we assume you have a defective component.

Let me spitball and idea out there.

As far as I know, NTE does not manufacture anything. They buy components and parts in bulk from various manufacturers, put their part number on it, put it in an NTE box, blister pack or little plastic bag. This relay was made by Potter Brumfield or Omron or somebody and they sold it to NTE. Is it possible that somewhere along the chain, somebody made a mistake and used the wrong part for this NTE device?
 
If a relay or contactor is chattering, and input voltage is good, then your relay is bad.
 
...
As far as I know, NTE does not manufacture anything. They buy components and parts in bulk from various manufacturers, put their part number on it, put it in an NTE box, blister pack or little plastic bag. This relay was made by Potter Brumfield or Omron or somebody and they sold it to NTE. Is it possible that somewhere along the chain, somebody made a mistake and used the wrong part for this NTE device?

In that case, clear pictures of all markings on the relay could be helpful.

Brew on :mug:
 
In that case, clear pictures of all markings on the relay could be helpful.

Brew on :mug:

My wild guess is that the wrong part number was put on the relay.

The factory stamped on the device RLY123-120VAC, but in reality they made a RLY123-240VAC.
 
My wild guess is that the wrong part number was put on the relay.

The factory stamped on the device RLY123-120VAC, but in reality they made a RLY123-240VAC.

Also possible that the relay is marked correctly, and packaged incorrectly. That would be easy to detect. But if marking says it's 30A contacts with120V coil, then your option is a possibility, along with just plain defective.

Brew on :mug:
 
A buzz, intermittent contact, and chattering all point to either low relay voltage or a loose contact in your relay base... try wiggling the relay with voltage applied and see if you can make the contacts click at will by wiggling. Make sure you only touch the plastic at the top! :)

If voltage is good, and contacts are good, you have a bad coil.
 
I'm switching 23 A (5500W heating element). Using 120V on the coil by using one hot lead and the neutral on my 240V line coming in. This last time I used it, sometimes it would buzz, sometimes do nothing, sometimes chatter. Eventually it did work. I noticed that the contacts did seem loose.
 
I'm switching 23 A (5500W heating element). Using 120V on the coil by using one hot lead and the neutral on my 240V line coming in. This last time I used it, sometimes it would buzz, sometimes do nothing, sometimes chatter. Eventually it did work. I noticed that the contacts did seem loose.

I'm sorry, I should have clarified, I meant the contacts in the bottom of the relay (the pins that plug into the base). Those being loose, or even dirty, can cause inconsistent current draw and a chattery relay.

The contacts inside the relay should absolutely not be loose, they should be spring loaded and not move unless the coil is energized.

If some of your pins are loose in their sockets, you might be able to bend the little contact sleeve inside the socket with a small flathead screwdriver to tighten up the connection. Make darn sure the system is powered off and unplugged before you do that though!
 
Are you driving this relay with a straight on/off voltage or are you using a pulse width so that you can run the element at less than 100%? If you are doing PWM, you can't use a mechanical relay, it has to be SSR.

Excellent question. I wish I had thought to ask this.

It could account for the intermittent failure and variable results.
 
A buzz, intermittent contact, and chattering all point to either low relay voltage or a loose contact in your relay base... try wiggling the relay with voltage applied and see if you can make the contacts click at will by wiggling. Make sure you only touch the plastic at the top! :)

If voltage is good, and contacts are good, you have a bad coil.

NO! This is an open frame relay with line voltage exposed all over it. Don't go near it while it's energized.

Open Frame Relay.png

Brew on :mug:
 
Are you driving this relay with a straight on/off voltage or are you using a pulse width so that you can run the element at less than 100%? If you are doing PWM, you can't use a mechanical relay, it has to be SSR.

No, I have the SSR upstream. That is what I'm switching. I'm driving the relay with straight 120V.

My PID drives the SSR and I have a switch that handles the relay. That way, when the box is on and the PID wants to power the SSR (and in turn the element), I can switch that off while my box still pumps the wort.
 
NO! This is an open frame relay with line voltage exposed all over it. Don't go near it while it's energized.

View attachment 288697

Brew on :mug:

Ah yes 100% agree, I was visualizing an enclosed relay. Most (that I've used) have plastic covers and its impossible to touch the contacts.

Sorry about that!
 
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