Household electric problems. Keep blowing the fuse

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Brewslikeaking

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OK so somebody please help me. I'm distraught at this stage. I built this beautiful 15gallon rims system complete with a very good pump and a brau supply mini controller.

I plugged it in for the first time and the circuit blew. I flipped it up and the whole apartment blew. Base circuit needed to be flipped. So here's my question.

I installed a 120v 1650watt heating element and plugged it into a 120v 1500watt temperature controller(brau supply mini controller) I then plugged the controller into the wall outlet which is on a 20amp circuit. And the circuit kept blowing. Since I connect the two is the wattage 1650 + 1500 = 3150watts and a 20amp circuit can only handle 20ax120v = 2400watts?

If I'm right in the above circumstance (which I doubt I am) then no outlet in the apartment will he able to handle the heating element and controller.

Also worth noting that I made a mistake that probably screwed things up to begin with. I plugged in the element to the controller then to the pump and then into the outlet WITHOUT WATER IN THE KETTLE and it was on for a few minutes before the circuit blew.

This made the coating on the element completely burn off and when I cleaned it up and put water in the kettle and tried to turn it all on again the circuit blew AGAIN. I don't have a 240v outlet so that's why I built this system. I realize a 15gallon pot is too big for the 120v system but I'm not going to brew more than 5 gallons in it.

Please help. I spent a lot of money on all of these parts and I'm very upset it's not working once I finally tried to brew with it.
Thank you

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Safety first: make sure you have ground fault interrupt some where in the system.

I can't be sure but I'd wager that element is toast. Does the circuit breaker trip without the element plugged in? Also where are you? There maybe someone just down the street that could help you out?

ETA: Can you measure the resistance of the element?
 
The controller only controls 1500W. It doesn't draw 1500W. It's rated for 1500W, so you shouldn't be using a 1650W heating element (although you may get away with it.)

Worse case, you ran the pump dry and fried that, ran the element dry and fried that, drew too many amps through the controller and fried that.

My guess is that the element has a dead short from running dry and is causing the breaker to trip.
 
So do you suggest getting an element that's 1500 or lower wattage? Also one of my initial questions was if I plug a 1500watt element into a 1500watt controller-does this make the wattage 3000 on the outlet?
 
Electronics is my phobia. I know very little about it - don't know how to measure resistance. I'm in Queens ny
 
That element is buh-bye. Lesson 1: never test an element without the load (water) to protect it.

Following your discussion is a bit difficult. Let's break it down. Does the controller work alone without the element connected? I would suggest plugging in a small load like an incandescent light (you likely have a lamp in the apt somewhere). Test the controller functions - does the lamp light and turn on and off when expected (change the controller set points to test this). Report back what happens.

-BD
 
So do you suggest getting an element that's 1500 or lower wattage? Also one of my initial questions was if I plug a 1500watt element into a 1500watt controller-does this make the wattage 3000 on the outlet?
If your controller is rated at 1500w, that should be the most you want to try to run. It may work with the 1650w, then again you might fry it.
You probably do have 220-240V in your apartment if you have an electric stove or a clothes dryer.
 
So do you suggest getting an element that's 1500 or lower wattage? Also one of my initial questions was if I plug a 1500watt element into a 1500watt controller-does this make the wattage 3000 on the outlet?

Wow.

No, the wattage is dictated by the element draw, so you'd be pulling 1500 watts plus whatever the controller contributes (likely mice nuts by comparison)...

Cheers!
 
Controller are limited to the total amount of wattage they can control due to limits in the internal relays and switches. It's a 1500w controller that can handle a 1500 watt element. The total draw on that circuit would be about 1600 watts due to the element and the pump. You should be fine there. I'm going to guess that your element is shot now.. Go with a 1500 watt element and consider brewing on the stove for a little heat supplement.
 
I plugged in the element to the controller then to the pump and then into the outlet WITHOUT WATER IN THE KETTLE and it was on for a few minutes before the circuit blew.

I have an electricity phobia too that I'm slowly overcoming. It's getting better.

Did you plug both the element AND pump into the controller? If so, I'd recommend not doing that. The intent is to continuously circulate so that you're constantly taking accurate temp readings. Without water circulating you're just reading the temp of some stagnant water that will not be representative of the water that's surrounding the grains during the mash. Your temp reading will be off.

And no pump (or really electric motor) I've ever seen is designed to be turned on/off repeatedly and rapidly, which is what would happen if it's connected to the controller while it's actually trying to control a set point. It'll wreck one pretty quick.
 
Just moved from the Bronx to Atlanta 3 weeks ago. That 120v outlet is not GFI protected in the fuse box. Also with the shady things they do there test to make sure it is a true 120 outlet.
 
Sure. But if you don't crimp new ring terminals on there properly, you might end up with the same problem. Crimp and solder if possible. Try to use a ratcheting crimper. As a minimum, give it a good yank test on the ring terminal before you put into service.
 
someone chime in if this sounds fishy... the element is using resistance between the hot conductor and the neutral (grounded) conductor. if the element was dry fired, (looks like it) that will cause the breaker to trip right away. it's like a direct short to ground. anywhoo, your transformed panelboard in the residence is more than likely 110 v and not 120 v. - that keeps you at a 15 amp draw which is safely inside the ~75% "fudge factor" range. you do need to install a gfci, it is highly unlikely that there is a GFI breaker at the panel. reason being the receptacle is around $12 but a gfi breaker is closer to $50. also, the element will only get 1500w to it since im fairly sure there is a limiter in the controller.. if not, the controller is risky of a fire or short. be safe and brew hard!
 
someone chime in if this sounds fishy... the element is using resistance between the hot conductor and the neutral (grounded) conductor. if the element was dry fired, (looks like it) that will cause the breaker to trip right away. it's like a direct short to ground. anywhoo, your transformed panelboard in the residence is more than likely 110 v and not 120 v. - that keeps you at a 15 amp draw which is safely inside the ~75% "fudge factor" range. you do need to install a gfci, it is highly unlikely that there is a GFI breaker at the panel. reason being the receptacle is around $12 but a gfi breaker is closer to $50. also, the element will only get 1500w to it since im fairly sure there is a limiter in the controller.. if not, the controller is risky of a fire or short. be safe and brew hard!

Dry firing will damage/destroy the element, but shouldn't cause an over current condition, unless the element fails to a shorted condition.

Brew on :mug:
 
Dry firing will damage/destroy the element, but shouldn't cause an over current condition, unless the element fails to a shorted condition.

Brew on :mug:

Very unlikely to happen. The element is resistive along its entire length. Even if a part of it shorted, the rest of it would remain resistive.

Logically, elements should fail open.
 
someone chime in if this sounds fishy... the element is using resistance between the hot conductor and the neutral (grounded) conductor. if the element was dry fired, (looks like it) that will cause the breaker to trip right away. it's like a direct short to ground. anywhoo, your transformed panelboard in the residence is more than likely 110 v and not 120 v. - that keeps you at a 15 amp draw which is safely inside the ~75% "fudge factor" range. you do need to install a gfci, it is highly unlikely that there is a GFI breaker at the panel. reason being the receptacle is around $12 but a gfi breaker is closer to $50. also, the element will only get 1500w to it since im fairly sure there is a limiter in the controller.. if not, the controller is risky of a fire or short. be safe and brew hard!

120V where I live. Hold on... checking... 120V measured (my UPS measures and displays).

A dry-fired element might do just fine. I've dry-fired mine many times without any issue. In fact, I have a friend with the Camco 5500 ripples, and he dry-fires his until they are red-hot just to burn any crud off; easier than brushing.

100% agree on the GFCI. If you're using 120V, you can get a GFCI adapter at Home Depot for $20. It will save your life.
 
Very unlikely to happen. The element is resistive along its entire length. Even if a part of it shorted, the rest of it would remain resistive.

Logically, elements should fail open.
Yeah, I agree that fail to a short is very unlikely.
 
Not only his life the the people and pets in the building he lives in. Also crimp and solder like was said is the safe bet. Cut back the bad wire until you find good wire.
 
It sure looks like that neutral conductor got VERY hot within an inch of the element. Likely a bad/high resistance crimp or loose screw on that lead. Not familiar with these elements but what is the black rubbery material; tape, an insulation boot?
 
I just dry-fired one of my elements for quite a few minutes. Standard 1500W high or medium watt density. Element doesn't look ruined at all - but it trips the GFCI instantly when I turn it on. Stole the element from my HLT for the BK and finished brew day without issues luckily. Upgraded to one of the ULWD SS ones from Bobby. Now I'll have one nice element and two cheapies but whatever.

Pro-tip: turn your elements off when draining the pot :drunk:
 
In post 15, 3rd picture, it first looked like the white wire shorted to the box. Then I realized that it's only 120V. If you look at the bottom left of the hot terminal (same pic) the ground (earth) wire looks like the insulation is compromised. If you go back to the first pic, you'll see where the ground wire probably shorted against the hot terminal (a little bit of copper showing where there shouldn't be). I'd bet that's where the short occurred. If this was the problem, you may not have destroyed your element. If you re-wire this with another element, rotate the ground ring connector from where it is now (about 5 o'clock) to about 8 o'clock. Also a GFI receptacle isn't a bad idea. Replace that 15/20 amp single receptacle with a 15/20 amp GFI receptacle and you should be good to go.
BTW, where do you live in Queens? I grew up in Woodhaven.
 
from what I've read here multiple times, ULWD elements can usually be dry fired... regular watt or low watt density ones cannot.
 
In post 15, 3rd picture, it first looked like the white wire shorted to the box. Then I realized that it's only 120V. If you look at the bottom left of the hot terminal (same pic) the ground (earth) wire looks like the insulation is compromised. If you go back to the first pic, you'll see where the ground wire probably shorted against the hot terminal (a little bit of copper showing where there shouldn't be). I'd bet that's where the short occurred. If this was the problem, you may not have destroyed your element. If you re-wire this with another element, rotate the ground ring connector from where it is now (about 5 o'clock) to about 8 o'clock. Also a GFI receptacle isn't a bad idea. Replace that 15/20 amp single receptacle with a 15/20 amp GFI receptacle and you should be good to go.
BTW, where do you live in Queens? I grew up in Woodhaven.

I agree with your analysis. The original routing of the ground wire had the insulation in contact with part of the hot terminal of the element. The heat that melted the black insulation on the element base probably also melted thru a spot on the ground wire. Like you say, the ground wire should be routed such that it does not contact any of the element terminal metal.

Brew on :mug:
 
Simple problem, the element was 1650 watts. And the controller was 1500 watts meaning it was capable of controlling a 150pwatt element. I got a new element and enclosure and cord from the great Steven at brausupply and there were no more power problems. Having a little trouble auto tuning the controller but in regards to the circuits blowing it was a simple solution. Always do your your research first :)
 
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